[2018-01-30] Samsung Enters `Mass Production` of ASIC Miners

[moriskarlov]

South Korean electronics giant Samsung has begun manufacturing ASIC hardware geared to cryptocurrency mining in a Chinese partnership.

SAMSUNG EDGES IN ON BITMAIN

That’s according to a report in local news outlet The Bell, which on Monday stated the deal with Taiwanese operator TSMC Taiwan was already resulting in “mass production.”

The move would constitute the second major step into the mining sector by a global multinational this month after Eastman Kodak announced a surprising but highly-criticized scheme several weeks ago.

Samsung would also join the turbulent race to cement positions on cryptocurrency in South Korea, news of a major deal between exchange Bithumb and e-commerce platform WeMakePrice coming the same day as the company’s announcement.

According to the Bell, sources confirmed the partnership, with analysts suggesting it was premature to consider profitability increases.

Nonetheless, TSMC’s position as a supplier to market giant Bitmain could see the Samsung move provide a much-needed dose of competition in mining.

FORGET 40 UPCYCLED SMARTPHONES

In late October, Samsung hinted at its interest in cryptocurrency mining with the unveiling of an altogether more experimental product at its San Francisco developer conference.

A ‘rig’ comprising forty repurposed Galaxy S5 smartphones and other products was described as “innovative” to Vice while at the time remaining something of an understated contribution to the industry.

“This innovative platform provides an environmentally responsible way for old Galaxy mobile devices to breathe new life, providing new possibilities and potential extended value for devices that might otherwise be forgotten in desk drawers or discarded,” a spokesman told the publication at the time.

2018’s other major mining announcement from Kodak meanwhile appeared to fail in its bid to create the desired buzz from the industry.

Its two-year contract attracted as much negative publicity as the hardware itself, commentators noting the mathematics employed by the company would end up losing customers revenue.

Nevertheless, shares in the embattled electronics manufacturer jumped following the announcement at CES Las Vegas, despite one journalist describing it as “the dumbest thing he had seen” at the technology event.

http://bitcoinist.com/samsung-production-asic-miner-bitmain/

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[matuson]

This can be a significant problem for those who use mining GPU. Network complexity will increase significantly and will make this method ineffective. The production capacity of Samsung is very great. They can significantly increase sales volumes of ASIC. This will cause a significant reduction in the profitability of mining. I think it's bad news.

[TraderTimm]

This can be a significant problem for those who use mining GPU. Network complexity will increase significantly and will make this method ineffective. The production capacity of Samsung is very great. They can significantly increase sales volumes of ASIC. This will cause a significant reduction in the profitability of mining. I think it's bad news.

Its only a problem to those pushing ASIC miners with ASICBoost. Jihan Wu is probably going to have a heart attack, and it serves him right - he's been a parasite on the back of Bitcoin for long enough. From purposefully mining empty blocks (contributing nothing back to the network, just grubbing for the block reward), to backing shitforks like BCash, he deserves a comeuppance from the juggernaut of Samsung.

As for it making GPU miners unprofitable, that ship sailed a LONG time ago for Bitcoin, on other coins that are "ASIC resistant", it won't matter too much either.

[1Referee]

Please Samsung, turn Jihan's Bitmain into a pile of rubbish by taking over it's insanely large market share. Samsung has the power and the capital to achieve this, and this will directly function as an example of how that centralized part of the market will slowly become less depending on just one major entity. This is probably one of the best news articles of this entire year for me, and I'm not exaggerating things. Jihan's cartel is a poisonous entity in this market making a living off of Bitcoin, but at the same time doesn't mind to tarnish Bitcoin's reputation for his own hidden agenda plans, the bastard. I hope that Samsung's potentially successful entrance in this market will stimulate other manufacturers to do the same. I can't wait to see Jihan's empire shrink slowly but surely.

[Sandal_Hat]

This is insane. There is too much mining difficulty already. This would make mining difficulty rise further...it is plain stupid.
Samsung can make huge losses here.

Anyone have any idea when this will hit the market?

[richardsNY]

This is insane. There is too much mining difficulty already. This would make mining difficulty rise further...it is plain stupid.
Samsung can make huge losses here.

Your post doesn't really make sense. Samsung gets involved in this market because of how much potential there is. If we look at how much demand there is for proper mining gear, and that on a very large scale, it's more than lucrative for Samsung to enter this market. If they manage to offer their miners for a lower sale price, they'll probably start messing with Bitmain's market big time. Don't think anyone here will lose sleep over Bitmain losing its iron grip on this element of the industry. More entities being able to buy cheaper mining gear means a much stronger network in the long run, which of course will drive up the difficulty even further, but that's not a problem. Increasing difficulty means increasing demand, and if the price keeps growing as well, then everyone remains happy.

[CyberKuro]

"Samsung edges in on Bitmain",  a good thing as Bitmain become the only market makers for ASICs hardware and they can mark-up the price at their will due to the big demand. I'm wondering whether the ASIC miners will be sold to the public or it just private-sell to "Chinese partnership?
a better ASIC means; it can generate bigger hashrate but sold at a cheaper price or at least it has the same price as Bitmain's ASIC.

[Sandal_Hat]

This is insane. There is too much mining difficulty already. This would make mining difficulty rise further...it is plain stupid.
Samsung can make huge losses here.

Your post doesn't really make sense. Samsung gets involved in this market because of how much potential there is. If we look at how much demand there is for proper mining gear, and that on a very large scale, it's more than lucrative for Samsung to enter this market. If they manage to offer their miners for a lower sale price, they'll probably start messing with Bitmain's market big time. Don't think anyone here will lose sleep over Bitmain losing its iron grip on this element of the industry. More entities being able to buy cheaper mining gear means a much stronger network in the long run, which of course will drive up the difficulty even further, but that's not a problem. Increasing difficulty means increasing demand, and if the price keeps growing as well, then everyone remains happy.

My post makes alot of sense. I think u just dislike bitmain too much.

Dude, last year, Bitcoin price went up from 800 usd to 20,000 usd to now about 10k+ usd. That is a price increase of 12-20x or so.
Did mining get 12-20x MORE profitable?
No, it didnt.
Why?
Because bitmain and other manufacturers push out so much equipment to push difficulty far far higher....

Now, wat do u think will happen when more manufacturers add to even MORE mining equipment and BIGGER difficulty increase??
Bitcoin price will need to go up 12-20x again...same as last year... to keep mining profitability sort of the same.

I dont see bitcoin rising to 120,000- 200,000 usd this year. It has stagnated for a month as it is.......
We can have a case where mining does not make money but selling miners makes money.

[TraderTimm]

Dude, last year, Bitcoin price went up from 800 usd to 20,000 usd to now about 10k+ usd. That is a price increase of 12-20x or so.
Did mining get 12-20x MORE profitable?
No, it didnt.
Why?
Because bitmain and other manufacturers push out so much equipment to push difficulty far far higher....

Now, wat do u think will happen when more manufacturers add to even MORE mining equipment and BIGGER difficulty increase??
Bitcoin price will need to go up 12-20x again...same as last year... to keep mining profitability sort of the same.

I dont see bitcoin rising to 120,000- 200,000 usd this year. It has stagnated for a month as it is.......
We can have a case where mining does not make money but selling miners makes money.

So much uninformed idiocy in such a small paragraph.

Higher Bitcoin Prices == Bigger Profits Per Coin

Total Hashrate Sum Of Mining Pool Results in ---> Proportional Share Of Block Rewards (Averaged over time, there are variances) + Transaction Fees Per Block Mined

"Stagnating for a month" after rallying to an ALL-TIME FUCKING HIGH is the the usual pattern for Bitcoin, you loon.

Bitcoin is up 969% from January 31st, 2017.

You also realize that there seems to be a direct correlation to increases in difficulty and price?

Of course not, you're too busy being an idiot.

[Kprawn]

It is about time that someone come in to Bully the current Bully. {Jihan Wu} He has been throwing his weight around for

much too long now. I face a lot of hostility from a lot of gamers lately, who are saying that Crypto currencies are the leading

cause of the inflated prices of GPU cards. {They should blame the shortage of these cards on the manufacturing companies,

because they are simply to adapting to the current demand for these cards.}     Samsung has timed this perfectly,

because there are a huge demand for mining equipment at the current moment. 

[Basmic]

This is another step to monopolization of the market mining. I am opposed to this. My opinion is that it would be better if each user cryptocurrency would provide their capacities for the implementation of the transaction. Now you understand that you need to change the system of confirming transactions. But the mining lobby against it. This affects all of us.

[Hell-raiser]

This is insane. There is too much mining difficulty already. This would make mining difficulty rise further...it is plain stupid.
Samsung can make huge losses here.

Your post doesn't really make sense. Samsung gets involved in this market because of how much potential there is. If we look at how much demand there is for proper mining gear, and that on a very large scale, it's more than lucrative for Samsung to enter this market. If they manage to offer their miners for a lower sale price, they'll probably start messing with Bitmain's market big time. Don't think anyone here will lose sleep over Bitmain losing its iron grip on this element of the industry. More entities being able to buy cheaper mining gear means a much stronger network in the long run, which of course will drive up the difficulty even further, but that's not a problem. Increasing difficulty means increasing demand, and if the price keeps growing as well, then everyone remains happy.

I somewhat agree with the poster you criticize here, though for different reasons. I really don't see a lot of potential in the ASIC miners market. Here are my two points regarding this matter. First, we don't know much about future Bitcoin regulations, so, in the worst case scenario, there may be nothing to mine. But probably Samsung knows better, more power to them. Anyway, they are likely testing waters with this endeavor and they won't lose much even if their effort fails miserably. And second, POW mining, and ASIC mining specifically, is a dead end, so entering this market seems to be a risky business on its own. To put it simply, they may be too late to the party. But then again, Samsung is just too big to lose too much even if they will have to quit.

[Sandal_Hat]

Dude, last year, Bitcoin price went up from 800 usd to 20,000 usd to now about 10k+ usd. That is a price increase of 12-20x or so.
Did mining get 12-20x MORE profitable?
No, it didnt.
Why?
Because bitmain and other manufacturers push out so much equipment to push difficulty far far higher....

Now, wat do u think will happen when more manufacturers add to even MORE mining equipment and BIGGER difficulty increase??
Bitcoin price will need to go up 12-20x again...same as last year... to keep mining profitability sort of the same.

I dont see bitcoin rising to 120,000- 200,000 usd this year. It has stagnated for a month as it is.......
We can have a case where mining does not make money but selling miners makes money.

So much uninformed idiocy in such a small paragraph.

Higher Bitcoin Prices == Bigger Profits Per Coin

Total Hashrate Sum Of Mining Pool Results in ---> Proportional Share Of Block Rewards (Averaged over time, there are variances) + Transaction Fees Per Block Mined

"Stagnating for a month" after rallying to an ALL-TIME FUCKING HIGH is the the usual pattern for Bitcoin, you loon.

Bitcoin is up 969% from January 31st, 2017.

You also realize that there seems to be a direct correlation to increases in difficulty and price?

Of course not, you're too busy being an idiot.

Of course higher bitcoin prices = higher profits but u gotta be freaking retarded to assume that bitcoin price will rise 10 times this year juz because it did so last year. Past performance does not indicate future performance, period...

And if by some miracle that happens, it would be much more profitable to juz buy and hold bitcoin rather than put money into mining equipment.

Dude, there is NO CORRELATION between price and difficulty period lol. Price got pumped last year due to hype and good news from media. That seems to have died down for now.

If there is a correlation, dash price needs to be 2-3 times higher than it is now due to the difficulty's phenominal rise. Antminer D3 will then make some significant profit instead of wat it is doing now.
Bitmain isnt dumb either. They diversify to AI chips as well, not juz mining.

U gotta be nuts if u think btc can rise 10 times a year. That would make its mkt cap over 2trillion plus this year and 20 trillion next year...thats juz impossible and it will actually be posing a significant risk to financial system in just few years from now.

[DooMAD]

This is insane. There is too much mining difficulty already. This would make mining difficulty rise further...it is plain stupid.
Samsung can make huge losses here.

I'll ignore the other debate that's going on at the moment and just point out one thing.  If Samsung are merely producing the hardware for sale and not actually using it themselves to mine, they're not going to care in the slightest what the difficulty is.  And providing they manage to sell lots of their hardware, they're likely going to make a profit whatever happens to the difficulty.  The only people in this scenario who would potentially face huge losses are the miners whose hardware isn't up to spec anymore, along with anyone who tries to sell ASICs that aren't up to spec anymore.  Obviously this all assumes Samsung do actually make decent mining rigs, but we'll have to wait and see to know that for sure.

[J. Cooper]

This can be a significant problem for those who use mining GPU. Network complexity will increase significantly and will make this method ineffective. The production capacity of Samsung is very great. They can significantly increase sales volumes of ASIC. This will cause a significant reduction in the profitability of mining. I think it's bad news.

Jihan Wu is probably going to have a heart attack,

It's about time this c*nt get's some serious competition. He's had his monopoly on the ASIC miners for way too long now and it's about time that his share of hashing power in the network significantly decreases. If Samsung happens to become a worthy competitor his influence in general will most certainly decrease and for someone as pathetic as Wu that's really something we want. The interest of Samsung in cryptocurrency is also worth nothing. News like this reiterates that cryptocurrency is here to say despite a mostly red market.

[Sandal_Hat]

This is insane. There is too much mining difficulty already. This would make mining difficulty rise further...it is plain stupid.
Samsung can make huge losses here.

I'll ignore the other debate that's going on at the moment and just point out one thing.  If Samsung are merely producing the hardware for sale and not actually using it themselves to mine, they're not going to care in the slightest what the difficulty is.  And providing they manage to sell lots of their hardware, they're likely going to make a profit whatever happens to the difficulty.  The only people in this scenario who would potentially face huge losses are the miners whose hardware isn't up to spec anymore, along with anyone who tries to sell ASICs that aren't up to spec anymore.  Obviously this all assumes Samsung do actually make decent mining rigs, but we'll have to wait and see to know that for sure.

Yep, spot.on. it will be like the D3 or thd obelisk miner which will have a very hard time ROI now.
Obelisk miner will probably never roi. Kodak also gave a ridiculous proposal for mining that puts them in profit and users in likely losses.
Samsug is a huge company and this is juz small business for them.


And that is why it is actually a good thing that we dont have more manufacturers. The most profitable mining time would have beem when bitmain had a monopoly.

More mabufacturers means more machines and since there is a fixed amount of new bitcoin that can be mined every 10mins, that means less profit per miner.

In general, miners are bought 2-3 months in advance. This makes things worst. People will see the profitability as low but somewhat decent and order. By the time the order reaches them, the profit is lower due to difficulty increases. This is made worst when many manufacturers deliver at the same time.... The media will irresponsibly sensationalize mining because they need something to write.

This is not like a normal product where more competition means cheaper prices for consumers and so competition means consumers win. There is a limited amount of coins released every time period that can be earned by evrryone...

[Canis Majoris]

Dude, there is NO CORRELATION between price and difficulty period lol. Price got pumped last year due to hype and good news from media. That seems to have died down for now.

If there is a correlation, dash price needs to be 2-3 times higher than it is now due to the difficulty's phenominal rise. Antminer D3 will then make some significant profit instead of wat it is doing now.

Sorry to say that but you might be wrong here because there is some correlation between price and difficulty. It may indeed take some time to get established and revealed, especially when there are huge price swings in the short term. Nevertheless, if the price goes up in the long term, new miners will join the club, and the rise in difficulty will definitely follow after some adjustment period until profitability sets at some typical value.

On the other hand, when the price goes down, it becomes less profitable or just no longer profitable to mine for some or most miners, they fall off, and difficulty goes down too. Obviously, it is not as simple as it looks for there are a lot of factors at play here. Volatility is likely the most important one of them, which massively complicates the matter, but certainly not the only factor. Another likely factor is that miners may be mining at a loss for some time expecting the price to rise in the future.

[Hell-raiser]

Dude, there is NO CORRELATION between price and difficulty period lol. Price got pumped last year due to hype and good news from media. That seems to have died down for now.

If there is a correlation, dash price needs to be 2-3 times higher than it is now due to the difficulty's phenominal rise. Antminer D3 will then make some significant profit instead of wat it is doing now.

Sorry to say that but you might be wrong here because there is some correlation between price and difficulty. It may indeed take some time to get established and revealed, especially when there are huge price swings in the short term. Nevertheless, if the price goes up in the long term, new miners will join the club, and the rise in difficulty will definitely follow after some adjustment period until profitability sets at some typical value.

On the other hand, when the price goes down, it becomes less profitable or just no longer profitable to mine for some or most miners, they fall off, and difficulty goes down too. Obviously, it is not as simple as it looks for there are a lot of factors at play here. Volatility is likely the most important one of them, which massively complicates the matter, but certainly not the only factor. Another likely factor is that miners may be mining at a loss for some time expecting the price to rise in the future.

I agree with what you say above. Moreover, I can add that it is not only with mining cryptocurrencies. It is the same with any commodity out there. If we substitute production costs for difficulty, we will see that the costs rise and fall together with the price, though in a somewhat deferred manner. For example, when gold surged to almost $1,900 dollars a few years ago, production costs also rose soon thereafter. The reason was quite simple. It became profitable to extract gold from more expensive mines given high prices. And when people later argued that the price of gold couldn't fall because of the high production costs, they were pretty much wrong. The price then fell over 40% in a couple of years and so did the costs. Crude oil is another obvious example of this pattern.

[TraderTimm]

Of course higher bitcoin prices = higher profits but u gotta be freaking retarded to assume that bitcoin price will rise 10 times this year juz because it did so last year. Past performance does not indicate future performance, period...

And if by some miracle that happens, it would be much more profitable to juz buy and hold bitcoin rather than put money into mining equipment.

Dude, there is NO CORRELATION between price and difficulty period lol. Price got pumped last year due to hype and good news from media. That seems to have died down for now.

If there is a correlation, dash price needs to be 2-3 times higher than it is now due to the difficulty's phenominal rise. Antminer D3 will then make some significant profit instead of wat it is doing now.
Bitmain isnt dumb either. They diversify to AI chips as well, not juz mining.

U gotta be nuts if u think btc can rise 10 times a year. That would make its mkt cap over 2trillion plus this year and 20 trillion next year...thats juz impossible and it will actually be posing a significant risk to financial system in just few years from now.

Do you go to a special school to be so retarded, or does it just come naturally?

Difficulty is a reflection of increase in total network hashing power, which in itself is representative of substantial investment in Bitcoin. The reason you don't see the corresponding rise in other shitcoins, is because they haven't proven themselves and none have been toughened and attacked like Bitcoin has and survived. While a baby might make it across a busy highway due to sheer probability, it doesn't mean that baby-shitcoin is worth anything yet.

Bitcoin is the big boy on the block, and it has not only crossed that busy highway, but at sprinting speed while onlookers take potshots at it from the nearby pedestrian walkway. So shut the fuck up about some crapcoin having high difficulty -- it isn't the same fucking thing. Which brings me to another point...

MARKETCAP IS A FUCKING IDIOT MEASURING STICK

You keeep fucking mentioning "marketcap" like you know something. You fucking don't.

Its easy to game, and clearly plenty of shitforks and shitcoins have relied on large issuance of their tokens so they can boast large "muh marketcap" numbers. If you don't realize how some idiot in his underwear can create a shitcoin and value it at a dollar per 100 billion units, giving it an insane marketcap, then you fail basic logic and should shut the fuck up for all eternity.

"Rise 10 times in a year" -- since you can't write worth two fucks, I'll use my superior deduction abilities to infer you meant "Bitcoin can't rally more than 10x in a year".

Look at this chart -- https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/0*YupospXpDV3ZRkln.

Stare at it, let it sink into the soft folds of your fucking walnut-brain.

See the left? Its price wiggling around down to 100.

See the peak? Its price after it rallied to 1,000+

That is more than 10x in a FUCKING YEAR. And even if it didn't manage that multiple, its mouth-breathing idiots like you that can't grasp the most basic fucking principles that drag down the entire space. So go to your nearest computer, buy all the shitcoins you want, and shut the fuck up.

You are a complete fucking idiot -- and you're so intellectually lazy you can't even bother to type "you" for fucking "u".... get the fuck outta here with that texting shorthand shit.

In short, go fuck yourself.

[stompix]

Dude, there is NO CORRELATION between price and difficulty period lol. Price got pumped last year due to hype and good news from media. That seems to have died down for now.

There is no direct and instant correlation but the price will always affect difficulty.

Let's say the price goes to 10$ (for the sake of the argument), who is going to mine? Those that don't give a damn about profits and those that get free energy.  Expect the difficulty to go back by a few (more) digits.

The same if the price spikes up to 100k. With so much money as reward for each block people will plug back block erupters.