Quantum Computers Wallets, Encryption and and Bitcoin blockchain

[Cryptoshops]

I got talking to a guy who invests quite a bit of money in both Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencys. He talked a little about quantum computers in the future which will be able to crack wallet private key encryptions and will also make the blockchain useless and this is why you are seeing a move away from blockchain cryptos. If this is true how will Bitcoin adopt this new technology called quantum or can it even survive it ?

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[Cryptoshops]

So this means once quantum computers become cheap enough to buy. Private keys will be useless that is unless Bitcoin can move with this new technology.

"Post-quantum cryptography refers to cryptographic algorithms (usually public-key algorithms) that are thought to be secure against an attack by a quantum computer. As of 2017, this is not true for the most popular public-key algorithms, which can be efficiently broken by a sufficiently large hypothetical quantum computer."

[Xavofat]

Nope.  Quantum computers will not exist that can break Bitcoin's cryptography for at least 10-20 years, and when they do, the solution is very easy.

Once quantum computers are advanced enough, the public key algorithm can be changed via a soft fork.  People would have to move their coins to addresses using the new algorithm in order to secure them.

Bitcoin is not the only thing that will be affected by this.  Many other systems will also need to be updated.

[styca]

I got talking to a guy who invests quite a bit of money in both Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencys. He talked a little about quantum computers in the future which will be able to crack wallet private key encryptions and will also make the blockchain useless and this is why you are seeing a move away from blockchain cryptos. If this is true how will Bitcoin adopt this new technology called quantum or can it even survive it ?

I think that once quantum computers become viable, one of the first uses will be quantum encryption. It won't be the case that hackers will immediately be able to compromise everything - encryption will have developed either in tandem or ahead as a preventative measure.

Incidentally, quantum encryption itself is by nature absolutely unhackable - regardless of any future developments (unless we uncover new laws of physics). This is because of quantum entanglement, Einstein's famous 'spooky action at a distance'. This is well into the realms of things that our mere human brains just aren't built to comprehend. We can know the maths, but not really understand its full implication.

[nightmanisrightman]

This has massive implications moving forward and if we as an industry want to survive than we have to get protection against quantum computing and the only solution I can see for this right now is QRL. I don't know if QRL (Quantum Resistant Ledger) has the thing to protect us just yet but they are working towards that solution everyday which is nice.

[Cryptoshops]

I got talking to a guy who invests quite a bit of money in both Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencys. He talked a little about quantum computers in the future which will be able to crack wallet private key encryptions and will also make the blockchain useless and this is why you are seeing a move away from blockchain cryptos. If this is true how will Bitcoin adopt this new technology called quantum or can it even survive it ?

I think that once quantum computers become viable, one of the first uses will be quantum encryption. It won't be the case that hackers will immediately be able to compromise everything - encryption will have developed either in tandem or ahead as a preventative measure.

Incidentally, quantum encryption itself is by nature absolutely unhackable - regardless of any future developments (unless we uncover new laws of physics). This is because of quantum entanglement, Einstein's famous 'spooky action at a distance'. This is well into the realms of things that our mere human brains just aren't built to comprehend. We can know the maths, but not really understand its full implication.

Yeah this is a very interesting subject indeed. Years ago people were talking about quad core processors and gigabyte hard drives then terabyte hardrives and at the time I thought it would never happen while I was still alive. It happened a lot faster than i could have ever imagined and I do think that we will see quatum computers in most people houses within 10-20 years  I also think that the software will have to change and so will encryption like you say. Lets hope Bitcoin grasps this technology becuase if they dont Bitcoin will be a thing of the past .

[Cryptoshops]

Nope.  Quantum computers will not exist that can break Bitcoin's cryptography for at least 10-20 years, and when they do, the solution is very easy.

Once quantum computers are advanced enough, the public key algorithm can be changed via a soft fork.  People would have to move their coins to addresses using the new algorithm in order to secure them.

Bitcoin is not the only thing that will be affected by this.  Many other systems will also need to be updated.

Yep definitely a lot of software will have to be updated and when I think back to the 2000 Millennium bug which never realy happened because most of the software was updated before I think it will be a similar thing  I hope I am still alive in 20 years time just to see how all this quatum technolgy works out

[Socioman]

As far as I know, quantum computers will not be available to humanity in the next five years. I believe that 5 years is enough to prepare for this.

[styca]

So this means once quantum computers become cheap enough to buy. Private keys will be useless that is unless Bitcoin can move with this new technology.

"Post-quantum cryptography refers to cryptographic algorithms (usually public-key algorithms) that are thought to be secure against an attack by a quantum computer. As of 2017, this is not true for the most popular public-key algorithms, which can be efficiently broken by a sufficiently large hypothetical quantum computer."

True quantum cryptography using entanglement won't just be 'thought to be secure', it will be 100% secure by nature.

We are used to the situation being that any level of encryption can simply be brute forced by the next generation of computer, and this is true until we get to quantum encryption. Once we have that, then brute speed and processing power won't be able to crack it, new quantum computing with x10 or x1,000,000 qubits won't crack it, nothing will - barring the discovery of new physics, but a new physics that could crack entangled encryption would likely confer untold power and turn us into a post-scarcity star-trek society in any case

[Cryptoshops]

As far as I know, quantum computers will not be available to humanity in the next five years. I believe that 5 years is enough to prepare for this.

Lets hope so lol. I think it will be a lot longer tbh because of the cost

[Socioman]

By the way, today I learned that in my city, in the network of shops "Technodom" began to take bitcoin in the form of payment. This is very unexpected. I used to read the news that bitcoin is universally accepted as payment. But I did not take it as a reality. I did not think that the crypto currency would become available to us so quickly. I live in Kazakhstan. I did not expect bitcoin to be available in a country like Kazakhstan, so quickly. The future is coming, gentlemen

[Cryptoshops]

So this means once quantum computers become cheap enough to buy. Private keys will be useless that is unless Bitcoin can move with this new technology.

"Post-quantum cryptography refers to cryptographic algorithms (usually public-key algorithms) that are thought to be secure against an attack by a quantum computer. As of 2017, this is not true for the most popular public-key algorithms, which can be efficiently broken by a sufficiently large hypothetical quantum computer."

True quantum cryptography using entanglement won't just be 'thought to be secure', it will be 100% secure by nature.

We are used to the situation being that any level of encryption can simply be brute forced by the next generation of computer, and this is true until we get to quantum encryption. Once we have that, then brute speed and processing power won't be able to crack it, new quantum computing with x10 or x1,000,000 qubits won't crack it, nothing will - barring the discovery of new physics, but a new physics that could crack entangled encryption would likely confer untold power and turn us into a post-scarcity star-trek society in any case

Yep as systems move forward so does most software and as long as Bitcoin are on top of it it should be fine ..I hope

PS:   I like this part though " but a new physics that could crack entangled encryption would likely confer untold power and turn us into a post-scarcity star-trek society in any case "  

[Cryptoshops]

By the way, today I learned that in my city, in the network of shops "Technodom" began to take bitcoin in the form of payment. This is very unexpected. I used to read the news that bitcoin is universally accepted as payment. But I did not take it as a reality. I did not think that the crypto currency would become available to us so quickly. I live in Kazakhstan. I did not expect bitcoin to be available in a country like Kazakhstan, so quickly. The future is coming, gentlemen

Yep technolgy is moving very fast indeed and nice to see you have Bitcoin where you live

[Lieldoryn]

It is impossible to have such a computer in a single instance. Any powerful computer is always a lot of the same powerful computers. Against any poison there is always an antidote. I believe that nothing can stop bitcoin. But for that bitcoin needs to be able to respond quickly to external threats. Now this is not happening.

[Cryptoshops]

It is impossible to have such a computer in a single instance. Any powerful computer is always a lot of the same powerful computers. Against any poison there is always an antidote. I believe that nothing can stop bitcoin. But for that bitcoin needs to be able to respond quickly to external threats. Now this is not happening.

Quantum computers are allready around and have been avalable for sale from 2014 for around 15 million dollars. Over time these will inevitably become a lot cheaper and a lot smaller and will be in most people homes.

As a kid I never thought we would have mobile phones now most people have them.  Yep bitcoin needs to keep up to date with new technolgy otherwise it will be a thing of the past.

[danielhodous]

A True quantum computer will break any modern encryption even these so-called "quantum resistant" blah blah blah... Ill easily explain it in simple terms
How?

Example:
Lets say for the poops and laughs your string is (that is only letters and only capital letters):
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ (broken down into binary code):
01000001 01000010 01000011 01000100 01000101 01000110 01000111 01001000 01001001 01001010 01001011 01001100 01001101 01001110 01001111 01010000 01010001 01010010 01010011 01010100 01010101 01010110 01010111 01011000 01011001 01011010

A typical modern computer trying to brute force its way in would have to crack 26 characters exponetially 26 times (26^26) or 6.156 Decillion (A.k.A  6,156,119,580,207,157,310,796,674,288,400,203,776 times) and that is just with the 26 uppercase letters!  This is because current computer bits are either 1's or 0's and it can only test one pathway at a time which could potentially take (26^26) tries to solve the password.


Seems impossible but not with quantum computers

Since at a quantum level the bits exist as both a 1 and a 0 the encryption basically grabs its ankles and takes it.  The Quantum attempt looks at the encryption then makes the attempt and succeeds immediately. 

This is where new cryptography needs to occur and when complete it will be truly quantum proof.  You need a crypto-algo that changes when observed, accessed, or altered.  Some call this Quantum Cryptography but an algo could be written right now that would be quantum proof.  The problem is even Watson on a dedicated pipe to the internet would have trouble handling it.  Think of 10000tx per second.  Each one changing the blockchain... (I can smell the fried circuits now... ahhhhh)

So ya this is very layman explanation and I could get more detailed but it should sum up.

[Karakyli]

The main advantage of the block is its safety. The technology allows you to distribute the transaction register between a large network of computers so that no one can hack and modify the registry - and this property makes it public and safe.
But in combination with quantum computing, another new technology, a registry of blockage that can not be changed, can be threatened.
A quantum computer can pose a threat to traditional forms of computer security - primarily for public key cryptography, which is the basis of most online communications, including blockbuster.
Quantum computations are based on quantum physics and have a greater potential power than any other traditional form of computation. It should also be noted that quantum computing threatens absolutely all computer security systems that are based on public key cryptography, and not just block crap. All security systems, including block systems, must take into account post-quantum cryptography to ensure data security. But the simplest and most effective way can be to replace traditional systems with such a block system in which quantum-stable cryptography is implemented.

[Cryptoshops]

A True quantum computer will break any modern encryption even these so-called "quantum resistant" blah blah blah... Ill easily explain it in simple terms
How?

Example:
Lets say for the poops and laughs your string is (that is only letters and only capital letters):
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ (broken down into binary code):
01000001 01000010 01000011 01000100 01000101 01000110 01000111 01001000 01001001 01001010 01001011 01001100 01001101 01001110 01001111 01010000 01010001 01010010 01010011 01010100 01010101 01010110 01010111 01011000 01011001 01011010

A typical modern computer trying to brute force its way in would have to crack 26 characters exponetially 26 times (26^26) or 6.156 Decillion (A.k.A  6,156,119,580,207,157,310,796,674,288,400,203,776 times) and that is just with the 26 uppercase letters!  This is because current computer bits are either 1's or 0's and it can only test one pathway at a time which could potentially take (26^26) tries to solve the password.


Seems impossible but not with quantum computers

Since at a quantum level the bits exist as both a 1 and a 0 the encryption basically grabs its ankles and takes it.  The Quantum attempt looks at the encryption then makes the attempt and succeeds immediately. 

This is where new cryptography needs to occur and when complete it will be truly quantum proof.  You need a crypto-algo that changes when observed, accessed, or altered.  Some call this Quantum Cryptography but an algo could be written right now that would be quantum proof.  The problem is even Watson on a dedicated pipe to the internet would have trouble handling it.  Think of 10000tx per second.  Each one changing the blockchain... (I can smell the fried circuits now... ahhhhh)

So ya this is very layman explanation and I could get more detailed but it should sum up.

Ok so as somebody said above this will affect a lot of software including the blockchain for cryptos  ? so what if they do not use blockchains like IOTA is doing. Im thinking that blockchains in the future will be useless and if that is so Bitcoin will be left behind unless they get rid of the blockchain 

[styca]

A True quantum computer will break any modern encryption even these so-called "quantum resistant" blah blah blah... Ill easily explain it in simple terms
How?

Example:
Lets say for the poops and laughs your string is (that is only letters and only capital letters):
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ (broken down into binary code):
01000001 01000010 01000011 01000100 01000101 01000110 01000111 01001000 01001001 01001010 01001011 01001100 01001101 01001110 01001111 01010000 01010001 01010010 01010011 01010100 01010101 01010110 01010111 01011000 01011001 01011010

A typical modern computer trying to brute force its way in would have to crack 26 characters exponetially 26 times (26^26) or 6.156 Decillion (A.k.A  6,156,119,580,207,157,310,796,674,288,400,203,776 times) and that is just with the 26 uppercase letters!  This is because current computer bits are either 1's or 0's and it can only test one pathway at a time which could potentially take (26^26) tries to solve the password.


Seems impossible but not with quantum computers

Since at a quantum level the bits exist as both a 1 and a 0 the encryption basically grabs its ankles and takes it.  The Quantum attempt looks at the encryption then makes the attempt and succeeds immediately.  

This is where new cryptography needs to occur and when complete it will be truly quantum proof.  You need a crypto-algo that changes when observed, accessed, or altered.  Some call this Quantum Cryptography but an algo could be written right now that would be quantum proof.  The problem is even Watson on a dedicated pipe to the internet would have trouble handling it.  Think of 10000tx per second.  Each one changing the blockchain... (I can smell the fried circuits now... ahhhhh)

So ya this is very layman explanation and I could get more detailed but it should sum up.

Ok so as somebody said above this will affect a lot of software including the blockchain for cryptos  ? so what if they do not use blockchains like IOTA is doing. Im thinking that blockchains in the future will be useless and if that is so Bitcoin will be left behind unless they get rid of the blockchain  

The answer is quantum cryptography using entanglement. A simple soft fork would allow implementation. This would be 100% unhackable, and couldn't be brute forced, because any measurement (including an attempted hack or interception) alters the state of the system. There are technical issues to overcome before we get to this stage, a big one being decoherence (signal degradation) due to interaction with the environment.

Quantum computing is not really here yet; the existing systems are very simple and primitive and only work in ideal conditions... but I'm sure that, like crypto, quantum computing is coming to the mainstream - and quantum cryptography comes as a part of that.

QC won't threaten the blockchain, it will give it more security.

[danielhodous]

A True quantum computer will break any modern encryption even these so-called "quantum resistant" blah blah blah... Ill easily explain it in simple terms
How?

Example:
Lets say for the poops and laughs your string is (that is only letters and only capital letters):
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ (broken down into binary code):
01000001 01000010 01000011 01000100 01000101 01000110 01000111 01001000 01001001 01001010 01001011 01001100 01001101 01001110 01001111 01010000 01010001 01010010 01010011 01010100 01010101 01010110 01010111 01011000 01011001 01011010

A typical modern computer trying to brute force its way in would have to crack 26 characters exponetially 26 times (26^26) or 6.156 Decillion (A.k.A  6,156,119,580,207,157,310,796,674,288,400,203,776 times) and that is just with the 26 uppercase letters!  This is because current computer bits are either 1's or 0's and it can only test one pathway at a time which could potentially take (26^26) tries to solve the password.


Seems impossible but not with quantum computers

Since at a quantum level the bits exist as both a 1 and a 0 the encryption basically grabs its ankles and takes it.  The Quantum attempt looks at the encryption then makes the attempt and succeeds immediately.  

This is where new cryptography needs to occur and when complete it will be truly quantum proof.  You need a crypto-algo that changes when observed, accessed, or altered.  Some call this Quantum Cryptography but an algo could be written right now that would be quantum proof.  The problem is even Watson on a dedicated pipe to the internet would have trouble handling it.  Think of 10000tx per second.  Each one changing the blockchain... (I can smell the fried circuits now... ahhhhh)

So ya this is very layman explanation and I could get more detailed but it should sum up.

Ok so as somebody said above this will affect a lot of software including the blockchain for cryptos  ? so what if they do not use blockchains like IOTA is doing. Im thinking that blockchains in the future will be useless and if that is so Bitcoin will be left behind unless they get rid of the blockchain  

The answer is quantum cryptography using entanglement. A simple soft fork would allow implementation. This would be 100% unhackable, and couldn't be brute forced, because any measurement (including an attempted hack or interception) alters the state of the system. There are technical issues to overcome before we get to this stage, a big one being decoherence (signal degradation) due to interaction with the environment.

Quantum computing is not really here yet; the existing systems are very simple and primitive and only work in ideal conditions... but I'm sure that, like crypto, quantum computing is coming to the mainstream - and quantum cryptography comes as a part of that.

QC won't threaten the blockchain, it will give it more security.

Yes and no, Quantum Cryptography blockchain will make it unhackable, but by the time QC gets to the point of being everywhere to run a decentralized block-chain the first QC's will have annihilated the primitive cryptography and drove their values to nothingness.  You can't institute a QC based solution without have QC's everywhere.  If you ran a primary blockchain on using entanglement on a 0 and 1's architecture it wouldn't understand what was going on.  SO the modified softfork would only run on a few sparse QC computers in the beginning until the QC's are everywhere.

I understand what you are saying but there are layers upon layers to this.

And IOTA is quantum resistant in such that the Merkle signature scheme is a one time code that only gets one attempt at a crack one-way.  But that doesn't mean that a Quantum computer can't solve the code.  Think of a water resistant watch vs a water proof watch... same concept here.  The QC can and would eventually crack this and it wouldn't take years months or days either.  The ability for a QC to be able to access all the possible entry points of the IOTA chain and try multi variant codes all at once on every POE will allow the code to be cracked in minutes. 


I agree with Styca to a point, the only truly quantum proof POE is an entangled POE.  And this only happens for a decentralized blockchain when all POE's can run quantum entanglement.  It can't be backwards compatible at all or you have the weak POE.