Why does bitcoin hate fiat money so much?

[ElectricMucus]

Some times a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Bitcoiners go as far as realizing that, all the money being created is lent to banks which in term lend it to society - with interest being charged all the way.
Eventually this on it's own has deteriorating effects on the economy since the interest keeps compounding, seemingly with no end in sight.
So far so bad...

What they fail to realize is that debt is sometimes not expected to be paid back. It is simply written off.
That occurs in regular intervals on all levels along the debt chain, with the result being that the system actually is sustainable if the creditors foresee their profits from time to time.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Let's go back to the topic.

If fiat doesn't die, Bitcoin won't survive. IMO.

Don't see it.  Bitcoin and fiat can both exist at the same time.

Mining is becoming less and less profitable each day. If Bitcoin doesn't go mainstream then its price in pieces of bread will be low and only little resources (hardware + electricity) will be spent on mining. Digital fiat is a tough competitor, while it's on the stage Bitcoin has very low chances to become popular. Hence the only real way to survive is to "kill" fiat. I don't see other ways coz Bitcoin offers only a few advantages (mainly anonymity pseudonymity and warm fuzzy feeling of "controlling" own money).

[coolbeans94]

You forgot the HUGE advantage Bitcoin has that you can't print a never ending supply of it. Just watch...as more and more fiat money get perpetually printed all over the world. Think of Bitcoin as a piece of artwork....it is unique and one of a kind, the only difference is you can split up Bitcoins into very small units and easily transfer them between people.

Also, looking at history, except for the current batch, all fiat currencies have eventually gone to zero.

[Come-from-Beyond]

You forgot the HUGE advantage Bitcoin has that you can't print a never ending supply of it. Just watch...as more and more fiat money get perpetually printed all over the world. Think of Bitcoin as a piece of artwork....it is unique and one of a kind, the only difference is you can split up Bitcoins into very small units and easily transfer them between people.

Also, looking at history, except for the current batch, all fiat currencies have eventually gone to zero.

Deflation of Bitcoin is the HUGE disadvantage. The best currency would be one with 0% inflation/deflation.

[murraypaul]

Also, looking at history, except for the current batch, all fiat currencies have eventually gone to zero.

So all fiat currencies have failed, except the ones that haven't?
Deep.

[danystatic]

Let's go back to the topic.

If fiat doesn't die, Bitcoin won't survive. IMO.

Won't survive ?
Until when? 2015?
 

[JoelKatz]

Deflation of Bitcoin is the HUGE disadvantage. The best currency would be one with 0% inflation/deflation.

It really doesn't matter. So long as the inflation/deflation is predictable and the inflation isn't due to an increase in supply not associated with an increase in real value and the deflation isn't due to a destruction of value, it all cancels out. In fact, you can argue that deflation equal to the average rate of investment return is optimal, as that permits those who want to minimize their risk to just hold currency, minimizing the transaction costs associated with choosing investments.

[tunctioncloud]

You forgot the HUGE advantage Bitcoin has that you can't print a never ending supply of it. Just watch...as more and more fiat money get perpetually printed all over the world.

The inflation is not disadvantage because fiat is meant to be using for immediate spending. To retain fiat value, you can not just sit on it, you have work with it. Those who dont understand it are highly dissapointd with fiat

[Come-from-Beyond]

Let's go back to the topic.

If fiat doesn't die, Bitcoin won't survive. IMO.

Won't survive ?
Until when? 2015?
 

In foreseeable future.

[crumbs]

You forgot the HUGE advantage Bitcoin has that you can't print a never ending supply of it. Just watch...as more and more fiat money get perpetually printed all over the world. Think of Bitcoin as a piece of artwork....it is unique and one of a kind, the only difference is you can split up Bitcoins into very small units and easily transfer them between people.

Also, looking at history, except for the current batch, all fiat currencies have eventually gone to zero.

Remember those unique, one-of-a-kind artworks ur mom used to hang on the fridge?  What are those masterpieces going for now? (please cite auction records & documented gallery sales)

Also, looking at history, except for the stuff currently alive, everything is dead. Love a good truism.

[Vandroiy]

I only dislike Fiat because one instance of it is forced on people.

While I'm more Austrian than Keynesian, I do not acknowledge that debt-based, inflated money must be bad. Bad is forcing people to accept exactly one instance of it with no proof of its superiority whatsoever -- and bullying alternatives on a regular basis.

[crumbs]

I only dislike Fiat because one instance of it is forced on people.

While I'm more Austrian than Keynesian, I do not acknowledge that debt-based, inflated money must be bad. Bad is forcing people to accept exactly one instance of it with no proof of its superiority whatsoever -- and bullying alternatives on a regular basis.

You do not have to accept anything -- you are free to trade in bitcoins or bark -- as long as you pay your taxes in fiat (the government, just like you, can decide how it wants to be paid).  At least that's the way it works in US.

[Mike Christ]

You do not have to accept anything -- you are free to trade in bitcoins or bark -- as long as you pay your taxes in fiat (the government, just like you, can decide how it wants to be paid).  At least that's the way it works in US.

I'm afraid this isn't true; the US has a vested interest in ensuring its currency has no competition, thereby forcing people to use that instead of an alternative:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar

In May 2009, von NotHaus and others were charged with federal crimes in connection with the Liberty Dollar and, on July 31, 2009, von NotHaus announced that he had closed the Liberty Dollar operation, pending resolution of the criminal charges. On March 18, 2011, von NotHaus was pronounced guilty of "making, possessing, and selling his own currency".

[crumbs]

You do not have to accept anything -- you are free to trade in bitcoins or bark -- as long as you pay your taxes in fiat (the government, just like you, can decide how it wants to be paid).  At least that's the way it works in US.

I'm afraid this isn't true; the US has a vested interest in ensuring its currency has no competition, thereby forcing people to use that instead of an alternative:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar

In May 2009, von NotHaus and others were charged with federal crimes in connection with the Liberty Dollar and, on July 31, 2009, von NotHaus announced that he had closed the Liberty Dollar operation, pending resolution of the criminal charges. On March 18, 2011, von NotHaus was pronounced guilty of "making, possessing, and selling his own currency".

According to the Associated Press, "Federal prosecutors successfully argued that von NotHaus was, in fact, trying to pass off the silver coins as U.S. currency. Coming in denominations of 5, 10, 20, and 50, the Liberty Dollars also featured a dollar sign, the word "dollar" and the motto "Trust in God," similar to the "In God We Trust" that appears on U.S. coins".[29] Von NotHaus's attorney is appealing the decision and the arguments made by the prosecution in the case. Dollar, for example, is a term used by many nations for their currency and has a German-language, not American, origin, the original form being "thaler", from Joachimstal in Bohemia (now the Czech Republic). --wikip

Bitcoin is currently legal in US, is treated as virtual currency, and subject to largely the same body of law as real, state-issued currency (a major exception: it is not legal tender).  Case in point.
Be fruitful and multiply.

[Mike Christ]

Bitcoin is currently legal in US, is treated as virtual currency, and subject to largely the same body of law as real, state-issued currency (a major exception: it is not legal tender).  Case in point.
Be fruitful and multiply.

That doesn't matter; the point is, there was a private currency, and the U.S. Government shut it down, ultimately for the reason explained: "making, possessing, and selling his own currency".  It is illegal under federal law to print your own currency.

[crumbs]

Bitcoin is currently legal in US, is treated as virtual currency, and subject to largely the same body of law as real, state-issued currency (a major exception: it is not legal tender).  Case in point.
Be fruitful and multiply.

That doesn't matter; the point is, there was a private currency, and the U.S. Government shut it down, ultimately for the reason explained: "making, possessing, and selling his own currency".  It is illegal under federal law to print your own currency.

No.  He was shut down as a counterfeiter/scammer, not issuing currency.  If you're talking about 18 USC § 486 - Uttering coins of gold, silver or other metal, it's *coining your own money*, *coins* claiming to be precious metals. 

If there is federal law forbidding alternative currencies, sauce plox.

[murraypaul]

That doesn't matter; the point is, there was a private currency, and the U.S. Government shut it down, ultimately for the reason explained: "making, possessing, and selling his own currency".  It is illegal under federal law to print your own currency.

You don't have book tokens in the US?
Or store gift cards?
They are 'currency', issued by a private organisation, and redeemable for value only at select subscribing places.

[BurtW]

Mileage plus miles...

[JoelKatz]

That doesn't matter; the point is, there was a private currency, and the U.S. Government shut it down, ultimately for the reason explained: "making, possessing, and selling his own currency".  It is illegal under federal law to print your own currency.

If you sell a stolen car, you can describe the prosecution as being for, ultimately, "selling a car". But that kind of ignores the fact that the car was stolen. The key fact is that von NotHaus was counterfeiting US currency and this fact was key to his prosecution.

[murraypaul]

There is a little more to it than that.
That explains his conviction for paper-based money.
He would have been convicted for his coins anyway, it is illegal to coin your own currency, even if it clearly different to USD.