A little help to decide if you want to do a groupbuy or not...

[CoinHoarder]

I would personally like to thank all the contributions in my GB's(financial, guidance), and the friends and experience I have acquired along the way

Cheers

That is one cool outcome of it that I didn't expect, I met some new friends. It is kind of cool how you all go through the same process and have people to debate with and complain with (in Avalon's case), and in the end it kind of brings everyone together.. like bonding with your family!

[1713253081]

1713253081

[DyslexicZombei]

Me too! I was surprised by that as well. I have a feeling that I'll be friends with many of the people in my co-op for years. I think Group Buyers as a whole are an optimistic bunch (perhaps a bit too wide eyed when we start off) that see the glass as half full, so it tends to attract the same type of people with similar risk profiles.

====

Since we're talking about best practices and things to consider when setting up, I'd like to add this BTC Currency Volatility Protection Model that trout & I came up with during my first GB for consideration; this may have been the first of its kind on the GB forum:

- EDIT: 1 BTC is being valued at $100 USD for this transaction. Since BTC is volatile, if 1 BTC is worth $120 or more (Blockchain value) at time of purchase, I refund you the difference! [Tip o' the hat to trout]
- ADDENDUM: This BTC currency volatility protection does not apply for ebay/PayPal shares.

Of course, you use the current value of BTC at the start of your GB instead of the $100 I have here (you know, in those ancient days when BTC was about a hundred: AKA last month). You could also use another exchange's price, of course. I'd also like to add if BTC *drops* 20% in value by the time your GB ends you're gonna be SOL unless you also included some sort of disclaimer that everyone has to chip in more or the GB disbanded if the value dropped 20% from the start of the GB.

Just a suggestion, but it's meant to CYA, mate! It's also fair to the Buyers if BTC appreciated over 20% since the start of the GB.

[Dabs]

It depends on the particular Group Buy. If the manufacturer or supplier is pricing their items in fiat or in bitcoins. Avalon chips are priced in bitcoins so the value of each BTC does not affect the Group Buy. Others, like BFL and KnC use USD as their base and just convert and accept BTC.

[DyslexicZombei]

Great point! In our case, HashFast priced their unit in USD, so trout had a valid point that the GBC can profit unfairly just from a rise in BTC over the course of the GB.

[SebastianJu]

Great point! In our case, HashFast priced their unit in USD, so trout had a valid point that the GBC can profit unfairly just from a rise in BTC over the course of the GB.

On the other hand a GBC could lose too this way. So i think its best to find a deal with the hardware supplier to buy for a static btc-price or the gbc makes a rule to pay back or collect more btc when the price makes it needed. Maybe easiest way is to collect a bit more from the start and then pay this back or use it partly for shipping and then pay back the rest. Something like that. I think a GBC does not want that the members feel treated unfair. That takes out much fun. When rules are there then the member can take part or not, so its best to think about everything before.

[andrewsg]

Very educational Sebastian, I didn't participate in your group buys but was very impressed with how you handled everything.

[Dabs]

It seems Avalon is beginning to refund some of the chip buys. Kindly check if you have bought chips from Avalon if you got a refund already. It's a relief to see 782.1 BTC in my wallet after all this time.

[SebastianJu]

It seems Avalon is beginning to refund some of the chip buys. Kindly check if you have bought chips from Avalon if you got a refund already. It's a relief to see 782.1 BTC in my wallet after all this time.

And keep sure you dont fall for a scammer and you dont answer happily "yes, refund" since someone put in his address... i didnt fall luckily otherwise i would have lost 2 batches refunds.

[DyslexicZombei]

It seems Avalon is beginning to refund some of the chip buys. Kindly check if you have bought chips from Avalon if you got a refund already. It's a relief to see 782.1 BTC in my wallet after all this time.

And keep sure you dont fall for a scammer and you dont answer happily "yes, refund" since someone put in his address... i didnt fall luckily otherwise i would have lost 2 batches refunds.

Oh? So some scumbags tried to get you to issue a refund when they didn't even order? Weak.

Care to share the names of these obvious miscreants so we know who to watch out for? Perhaps a thread in the scam accusation forum is applicable.

[voxelot]

It seems Avalon is beginning to refund some of the chip buys. Kindly check if you have bought chips from Avalon if you got a refund already. It's a relief to see 782.1 BTC in my wallet after all this time.

And keep sure you dont fall for a scammer and you dont answer happily "yes, refund" since someone put in his address... i didnt fall luckily otherwise i would have lost 2 batches refunds.

Oh? So some scumbags tried to get you to issue a refund when they didn't even order? Weak.

Care to share the names of these obvious miscreants so we know who to watch out for? Perhaps a thread in the scam accusation forum is applicable.

Keep in mind the top scammers on the scam thread are those that have had higher trust ratings than anybody here... If I spent 6 months to a year building hero status and suddenly found myself able to peace out on hundreds of thousands of $ in BTC.. well I can think that I wouldn't but what would you do?  Maybe none of us know what we will do when we are in charge of those kind of assets.

[DyslexicZombei]

It seems Avalon is beginning to refund some of the chip buys. Kindly check if you have bought chips from Avalon if you got a refund already. It's a relief to see 782.1 BTC in my wallet after all this time.

And keep sure you dont fall for a scammer and you dont answer happily "yes, refund" since someone put in his address... i didnt fall luckily otherwise i would have lost 2 batches refunds.

Oh? So some scumbags tried to get you to issue a refund when they didn't even order? Weak.

Care to share the names of these obvious miscreants so we know who to watch out for? Perhaps a thread in the scam accusation forum is applicable.

Keep in mind the top scammers on the scam thread are those that have had higher trust ratings than anybody here... If I spent 6 months to a year building hero status and suddenly found myself able to peace out on hundreds of thousands of $ in BTC.. well I can think that I wouldn't but what would you do?  Maybe none of us know what we will do when we are in charge of those kind of assets.

Gah! I don't understand that scammer mentality. You can make just as much money - if not more - working legitimately without having to look over your shoulder for the Police all the time. I'll never understand that. Scams take a lot of work too in most cases; might as well make your living by not pissing people off & tempting karma!

[CoinHoarder]

If you're hosting the units yourself and not on an exchange. This is an easy way to pay dividends: https://github.com/csjones/sharebitcoins

[bobsag3]

If you're hosting the units yourself and not on an exchange. This is an easy way to pay dividends: https://github.com/csjones/sharebitcoins

Holy crap your awesome.
The first $$$ I make from hosting using that you get a tip for, and the developer

[SebastianJu]

If you're hosting the units yourself and not on an exchange. This is an easy way to pay dividends: https://github.com/csjones/sharebitcoins

Nice script. Would work with coin refunds too it seems. How safe would the private key be?

It seems Avalon is beginning to refund some of the chip buys. Kindly check if you have bought chips from Avalon if you got a refund already. It's a relief to see 782.1 BTC in my wallet after all this time.

And keep sure you dont fall for a scammer and you dont answer happily "yes, refund" since someone put in his address... i didnt fall luckily otherwise i would have lost 2 batches refunds.

Oh? So some scumbags tried to get you to issue a refund when they didn't even order? Weak.

Care to share the names of these obvious miscreants so we know who to watch out for? Perhaps a thread in the scam accusation forum is applicable.

Yes i know who it was and i was in contact with him already. Its a pity since its someone i worked with and trusted not a few till now. He obviously forgot that he tried to use the address he used for trying to get the refund already in the forum. Since the deal didnt happen the address looked unused. Thats why he used it for the refund form most probably. Thats why i know who it was and made pictures to prove it.
I really dont know what to do. It was a saturday... it might be he was drunk or so... i dont have a clue. I wrote with him on that saturday and he wrote things like that i should refund all 5 and fly to thailand with a shirt "IAM RICH,BITCH!"... and he didnt give a real explaination why he did it.
I would destroy his Identities on the forum so im really unsure what to do since till now he was always reliable. Man, why did he bring me in this situation...

[DyslexicZombei]

Yikes! I'm sorry to hear about that complication.  That's the risk we all take when we're dealing with Customer Service; never know if you're going to get that so-called 1-3% of society that are mentally impaired or damaged. They deserve our empathy and compassion but it makes for a difficult situation if you're a Seller. That was a Dave Chapelle reference BTW if you were unfamiliar with it.

Two things I can think of:

- Sounds to me like someone was on a bender in Asia! The Hangover: Part 3.5!
- Maybe he's just off his meds right now.   I've known people that suffered from bipolar disorders that made them act this way when they refused to take their meds (says it makes them lethargic).

[Dabs]

Keep in mind the top scammers on the scam thread are those that have had higher trust ratings than anybody here... If I spent 6 months to a year building hero status and suddenly found myself able to peace out on hundreds of thousands of $ in BTC.. well I can think that I wouldn't but what would you do?  Maybe none of us know what we will do when we are in charge of those kind of assets.

I'd stick to the deal, whatever it was. That's just me personally. You don't get to handle the payroll of >200 people if you can't be trusted.

[thomas_s]

Keep in mind the top scammers on the scam thread are those that have had higher trust ratings than anybody here... If I spent 6 months to a year building hero status and suddenly found myself able to peace out on hundreds of thousands of $ in BTC.. well I can think that I wouldn't but what would you do?  Maybe none of us know what we will do when we are in charge of those kind of assets.

I'd stick to the deal, whatever it was. That's just me personally. You don't get to handle the payroll of >200 people if you can't be trusted.

This...it will eventually come back and bite you in the arse...I don't deal with payroll but I do deal with tens of thousands of dollars in cash a day, and every once in awhile have to count 100-250k.

[Zeek_W]

Well, OPs post definately made me not want to conduct a group buy! We always need more group buys in Australia

[voxelot]

I actually started a group buy with Sebastian's offer of escrow in a safe manner.  Nobody wants to group buy with me.  Maybe it is just me.. or maybe it is getting harder to soundly invest in any of the hardware we are being presented.  There have been issues from previous ROI fails so I had to offer no security rather than promise on pre-orders again.   

Honesty and trust are shown awesomely in these threads... yet I feel we can't trust ASIC devs. Maybe they just stop caring after they are presented with all of the pre-order profits/ being able to hash faster than anyone else on your newly printed test ASICs.

[SebastianJu]

I actually started a group buy with Sebastian's offer of escrow in a safe manner.  Nobody wants to group buy with me.  Maybe it is just me.. or maybe it is getting harder to soundly invest in any of the hardware we are being presented.  There have been issues from previous ROI fails so I had to offer no security rather than promise on pre-orders again.   

Honesty and trust are shown awesomely in these threads... yet I feel we can't trust ASIC devs. Maybe they just stop caring after they are presented with all of the pre-order profits/ being able to hash faster than anyone else on your newly printed test ASICs.

I think the only way to get hardware that will break even in the next months will be to have an Asic Design and produce miner at cost.