Is UPS NECESSARY? Or Surge protectors enough? sudden power outage kill RiG?

[Mandeep148]

Hi guys,
I need your opinion,
Im not new miner but not rich miner,
Till now it was fine, saved hard earned to buy a new gpu,
But I saw that my ups is overloaded ,
Im mining with 4 gtx 1070, right now i have 1.1kva apc ups,
Saved somehow to buy another gpu in fud session, but now i see i need to spend on ups,
Hows you guys doing with your large rig?
I would listen Indian opinions too because i live in India they are more familiar with electricity in india..
Would kill my all gpu and hardware if i dont use big ups? Can i relay upon a Surge protectors?
Please have a honest suggestion..

[1715481914]

1715481914

[1715481914]

1715481914

[whoismoses]

I don't have a single UPS on any of my rigs. If I did they would only last 1-2 minutes. Getting UPS that can do more than 900 watts is really expensive. You can get them used on ebay and craigslist but I don't think it is worth it. My strategy is to setup my rigs to auto boot and run the mining software...

1 - Set your motherboard to power on when it gets power (in the bios)
2 - Windows to do the following...
   a. apply your overclocks using Overdrive
   b. run your miner software

The only UPS I use for mining is when I am setting up a new rig and I am flashing video card bios...

[Mandeep148]

I don't have a single UPS on any of my rigs. If I did they would only last 1-2 minutes. Getting UPS that can do more than 900 watts is really expensive. You can get them used on ebay and craigslist but I don't think it is worth it. My strategy is to setup my rigs to auto boot and run the mining software...

1 - Set your motherboard to power on when it gets power (in the bios)
2 - Windows to do the following...
   a. apply your overclocks using Overdrive
   b. run your miner software

The only UPS I use for mining is when I am setting up a new rig and I am flashing video card bios...

Oh really, thats giving me bit chill,
Thats nice setting to turn on from bios,
Where you live?
Would there any harm if i keep using without ups?
Still ups are huge expensive, i mean what would those do who have 20+ rigs..
Is this surge protector safe?
https://www.amazon.in/dp/B007T5S0G0/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_OB3CAb7JY673W

Im still not sure about ups, please have some more opinion.
Thanks alot

[P00P135]

I don't have a single UPS on any of my rigs. If I did they would only last 1-2 minutes. Getting UPS that can do more than 900 watts is really expensive. You can get them used on ebay and craigslist but I don't think it is worth it. My strategy is to setup my rigs to auto boot and run the mining software...

1 - Set your motherboard to power on when it gets power (in the bios)
2 - Windows to do the following...
   a. apply your overclocks using Overdrive
   b. run your miner software

The only UPS I use for mining is when I am setting up a new rig and I am flashing video card bios...

Oh really, thats giving me bit chill,
Thats nice setting to turn on from bios,
Where you live?
Would there any harm if i keep using without ups?
Still ups are huge expensive, i mean what would those do who have 20+ rigs..
Is this surge protector safe?
https://www.amazon.in/dp/B007T5S0G0/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_OB3CAb7JY673W

Im still not sure about ups, please have some more opinion.
Thanks alot

Sudden loss of power and power spikes "can" kill hardware.  You shouldn't need a UPS unless you experience a lot of brown outs and have inconstant power though.

[nsummy]

What do you mean its overloaded?  Like you get no power?  If you are truly concerned about your investment you should use a UPS.  A sudden power loss won't kill your rig, and an UPS won't power it for any meaningful amount of time during a power loss, but if you want true surge protection you need to get it from a UPS.  A surge protector won't provide true protection

[whoismoses]

There is usually a setting in the BIOS listed under advanced power management. What kind of motherboard do you have and model number?

I usually have 2-3 outages a year. Each of my rigs runs between 850-1000 watts. Even the 900 watt UPS struggles on occasion with 850 watts so I stopped using them.

[Mandeep148]

Overloading i meant to say , running 4gtx 1070 on 1.1kva apc.

What do you mean its overloaded?  Like you get no power?  If you are truly concerned about your investment you should use a UPS.  A sudden power loss won't kill your rig, and an UPS won't power it for any meaningful amount of time during a power loss, but if you want true surge protection you need to get it from a UPS.  A surge protector won't provide true protection

There is usually a setting in the BIOS listed under advanced power management. What kind of motherboard do you have and model number?

I usually have 2-3 outages a year. Each of my rigs runs between 850-1000 watts. Even the 900 watt UPS struggles on occasion with 850 watts so I stopped using them.

Using asus z170 gaming pro.
Power supply, thermaltake tough power 1000w 80plus gold
This decision is killing me, isn't there any way to combine to ups xD?
Its hard to grow up with these expensive investments

[whoismoses]

Using asus z170 gaming pro.
Power supply, thermaltake tough power 1000w 80plus gold
This decision is killing me, isn't there any way to combine to ups xD?
Its hard to grow up with these expensive investments

I wouldn't go the UPS route. You could split your system into two power supplies and then two consumer end UPS devices. But that is still expensive.

For the bios settings see...

http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1151/Z170-PRO-GAMING/E10719_Z170_PRO_GAMING_UM_V2_WEB.pdf?_ga=2.188704872.1342811016.1517495491-1602774387.1516371670

Section 2.6.8 then scroll down to "Restore AC Power Loss"

[Mandeep148]

UPDATE1.
Met with Bitcoin Mining Specialist, (he had upto 100 Rigs at our town,
i saw his farm, he was using SINEWAVE UPS 2000VA for every RIG, from more than a year..
so i bought it and tested, it is giving 40 mins of Backup on 4gtx 1070 with OC and still going on power outage (havent test till last)
it have multiple MCB, and i tested to DIM the current and voltage and other various task to which can harm rig,
it gave well safety..
using 2 batteries of 12V of EXIDE brand
and inverter of SUKAM brand both with 2 years warranty,
saw the box, was labelled as for "heavy Computers"
this saved my investment alot,
it took 238$ to setup it..

[westom]

UPDATE1.
i saw his farm, he was using SINEWAVE UPS 2000VA for every RIG, from more than a year..

You have protection from a blackout.  So that unsaved data can be saved.  Transient and spike protection is still not installed.  Anyone can read specification numbers on that UPS.  It does not claim to protect from surges.

UPS is protection when AC voltage drops from 230 down to zero.  Surge protection is when AC voltage spikes well exceed 700 volts.  Protection from that anomaly must be located at the service entrance with (this is most critical) a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to earth ground.  Earth ground is not wall receptacle safety ground.  Earth ground is electrodes in earth.

Surges that do damage are rare - maybe once every seven years.  A number that can vary significantly even in the same town.  Geology is one relevant risk factor.

No plug-in protector claims effective protection.  Read its spec numbers.  Protection provide by a UPS is even less.  For well over 100 years, facilities that cannot have damage always properly earth the 'whole house' solution.  Then everything (not just miners) are protected.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

[Tidsdilatation]

This all depends on where you live, like where i live, in sweden, its very unneccessary since power surges does not happen. But if you are from a lesser developed country or a country with weird standards (USA) i should look into it. UPS stands for unlimited power supply, which basicly protects you from power outage.

[Mandeep148]

This all depends on where you live, like where i live, in sweden, its very unneccessary since power surges does not happen. But if you are from a lesser developed country or a country with weird standards (USA) i should look into it. UPS stands for unlimited power supply, which basicly protects you from power outage.

actually electricity doesnt go out much but right now theres maintenance going on, getting small hiccups and outage for 2 mins.
so its first hour of using Sinewave inverter UPS, doing good job, hope it would be nice..

[crazydane]

I only have UPS's on my Network Equipment and Burst Coin miner.  Everything else is just set to auto start in BIOS as has been mentioned.

I do have a whole house surge protector though, and all my rigs are being feed with 240V for better efficiency.

[Mandeep148]

UPDATE1.
i saw his farm, he was using SINEWAVE UPS 2000VA for every RIG, from more than a year..

You have protection from a blackout.  So that unsaved data can be saved.  Transient and spike protection is still not installed.  Anyone can read specification numbers on that UPS.  It does not claim to protect from surges.

UPS is protection when AC voltage drops from 230 down to zero.  Surge protection is when AC voltage spikes well exceed 700 volts.  Protection from that anomaly must be located at the service entrance with (this is most critical) a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to earth ground.  Earth ground is not wall receptacle safety ground.  Earth ground is electrodes in earth.

Surges that do damage are rare - maybe once every seven years.  A number that can vary significantly even in the same town.  Geology is one relevant risk factor.

No plug-in protector claims effective protection.  Read its spec numbers.  Protection provide by a UPS is even less.  For well over 100 years, facilities that cannot have damage always properly earth the 'whole house' solution.  Then everything (not just miners) are protected.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

i agree with you i respect for that detailed reply that really give person knowledge about protection..
the sinewave UPS im using, it is popular for Surge protector, MCB works well in that JOB, i also installed surge protector facility in whole home..
i also have facility of 12 feet long earthing, but stiill i would be more safe to use surge protector,
is that surge protector giving safety for like you said 700 volt?
https://www.amazon.in/Belkin-Essential-F9E600zb2MGRY-6-Socket-Protector/dp/B007T5S0G0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1517592410&sr=8-3&keywords=surge+protector

https://www.amazon.in/APC-P4U2-4-Socket-Surge-Protector/dp/B00YC3QXFC/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1517592432&sr=8-4&keywords=apc+surge+protector

please if you dont mind, please suggest me good surge protector in amazon.in (buying from .com would take more time)

[westom]

First define the problem.  Where are hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly absorbed?  Single point earth ground.  Every wire inside every incoming cable must make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to that ground before entering.

Your TV cable has always been required to make that connection.  Unfortunately some installers and electricians do not understand this.  That hardwire from the cable direct to earth ground is best protection.  No protector required.  That ground wire must be as short as practicable, have no sharp bends, no splices, not inside metallic conduit, etc - to make impedance low.

AC electric cannot connect direct to earth.  So a protector makes that same low impedance hardwire connection.  An effective protector does not do protection.  It only connects to what does protection.  That protector is only doing what a TV cable's hardwire does better.

2) If a surge is not inside, then best protection (already inside every appliance - every appliance needs this protection) is not overwhelmed.

3) Let's discuss impedance.  Assume a protector connected to a wall receptacle safety ground will somehow earth a tiny 100 amp surge via that safety ground wire.  That wire might be 0.2 ohms resistance.  And something like 120 ohms impedance.  100 amps times 120 ohms is something less than 12,000 volts.  Why less that 12,000?  Because that surge (due to 12,000 volts) must find better paths to earth.  One classic path is destructively through any nearby appliance.

So let's say that protector is 700 volts.  That means 12,000 volts on one wire and 11,300 volts on another.  Scammer love to manipulate numbers without discussing what it really means.

An IEEE brochure demonstrates this.  A protector, too far from earth ground and adjacent to a TV, earths a surge 8000 volts destructively through another TV in the next room.  Protector connected a surge to earth, destructively, via a best path to earth - a nearby appliance.

Once inside a house, that surge will find potentially destructive paths to earth.  Since that protector was too close (low impedance) to appliances and too far (high impedance) to earth ground, then an adjacent protector simply compromised better protection inside some nearby TV.

4) Protection is never about a protector.  Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate (harmlessly in earth) and the (low impedance) path that current uses.

Ineffective protectors with massive profit margins will not discuss this to protect profits.  Most consumers will not learn this because reality takes paragraphs - cannot be posted in a tweet.

What makes the 'whole house' protector so effective?  Its connection to earth is low impedance (ie wire length - not thickness - is relevant).  Connection from protector to appliance is long - high impedance.  That high impedance between protector and appliance increases protection.

5) We learned in school math about the independent and dependent variables.  The concept also applies here.  Independent variable (what defines protection) is current.  A dependent variable is voltage.  Voltage is only a symptom of what happens when the current flows.  The science of surge protection is about how that current connects to earth - for the same reason Ben Franklin's lightning rod is so effective.

Lightning seeks earth ground.  It finds a best electrical connection via a wooden church steeple  Wood is an electrical conductor - just not a good one.  So that lightning current creates a high voltage (a dependent variable) - destroys the steeple.

6) Franklin's lightning rod connected to earth on a wire.  Lightning seeks earth ground.  It finds a best electrical connection via that wire - an excellent electrical conductor. So that same lightning current creates a near zero voltage - no damage.   That same current will conduct no matter what - an independent variable.  Protection is always about (for example) how 20,000 amps connects to earth.  Either it creates a high and destructive voltage.  Or it creates a near zero (harmless) voltage.

Damage is due to a human mistake.  Because protection is always about how a current connects to and the quality of earth - as Franklin demonstrated over 250 years ago.

Finally, effective protector are sold like rice.  You don't need a model for rice or a 'whole house' protector.  That protector must have the dedicated wire to earth ground - that defines protection during each surge.  Since lightning can be 20,000 amps, then a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps.    That defines protector life expectancy over many decades and many direct lightning strikes.  That (not a model number or brand name) defines your best solution.

[Mandeep148]

Wow took lot of time to read and understand,
And thanks for more brief i give salute..

 im not having good knowledge in electricity,
Yes there are 3 wires of ground, one is dedicated for rig,
What should the next step?
If things will not protect should i leave things alone, if no then what surge protector or what ishould i use..
Please dont use expert language for noob like me. Its so difficult to understand joule volt etc for me xd

 

First define the problem.  Where are hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly absorbed?  Single point earth ground.  Every wire inside every incoming cable must make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to that ground before entering.

Your TV cable has always been required to make that connection.  Unfortunately some installers and electricians do not understand this.  That hardwire from the cable direct to earth ground is best protection.  No protector required.  That ground wire must be as short as practicable, have no sharp bends, no splices, not inside metallic conduit, etc - to make impedance low.

AC electric cannot connect direct to earth.  So a protector makes that same low impedance hardwire connection.  An effective protector does not do protection.  It only connects to what does protection.  That protector is only doing what a TV cable's hardwire does better.

2) If a surge is not inside, then best protection (already inside every appliance - every appliance needs this protection) is not overwhelmed.

3) Let's discuss impedance.  Assume a protector connected to a wall receptacle safety ground will somehow earth a tiny 100 amp surge via that safety ground wire.  That wire might be 0.2 ohms resistance.  And something like 120 ohms impedance.  100 amps times 120 ohms is something less than 12,000 volts.  Why less that 12,000?  Because that surge (due to 12,000 volts) must find better paths to earth.  One classic path is destructively through any nearby appliance.

So let's say that protector is 700 volts.  That means 12,000 volts on one wire and 11,300 volts on another.  Scammer love to manipulate numbers without discussing what it really means.

An IEEE brochure demonstrates this.  A protector, too far from earth ground and adjacent to a TV, earths a surge 8000 volts destructively through another TV in the next room.  Protector connected a surge to earth, destructively, via a best path to earth - a nearby appliance.

Once inside a house, that surge will find potentially destructive paths to earth.  Since that protector was too close (low impedance) to appliances and too far (high impedance) to earth ground, then an adjacent protector simply compromised better protection inside some nearby TV.

4) Protection is never about a protector.  Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate (harmlessly in earth) and the (low impedance) path that current uses.

Ineffective protectors with massive profit margins will not discuss this to protect profits.  Most consumers will not learn this because reality takes paragraphs - cannot be posted in a tweet.

What makes the 'whole house' protector so effective?  Its connection to earth is low impedance (ie wire length - not thickness - is relevant).  Connection from protector to appliance is long - high impedance.  That high impedance between protector and appliance increases protection.

5) We learned in school math about the independent and dependent variables.  The concept also applies here.  Independent variable (what defines protection) is current.  A dependent variable is voltage.  Voltage is only a symptom of what happens when the current flows.  The science of surge protection is about how that current connects to earth - for the same reason Ben Franklin's lightning rod is so effective.

Lightning seeks earth ground.  It finds a best electrical connection via a wooden church steeple  Wood is an electrical conductor - just not a good one.  So that lightning current creates a high voltage (a dependent variable) - destroys the steeple.

6) Franklin's lightning rod connected to earth on a wire.  Lightning seeks earth ground.  It finds a best electrical connection via that wire - an excellent electrical conductor. So that same lightning current creates a near zero voltage - no damage.   That same current will conduct no matter what - an independent variable.  Protection is always about (for example) how 20,000 amps connects to earth.  Either it creates a high and destructive voltage.  Or it creates a near zero (harmless) voltage.

Damage is due to a human mistake.  Because protection is always about how a current connects to and the quality of earth - as Franklin demonstrated over 250 years ago.

Finally, effective protector are sold like rice.  You don't need a model for rice or a 'whole house' protector.  That protector must have the dedicated wire to earth ground - that defines protection during each surge.  Since lightning can be 20,000 amps, then a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps.    That defines protector life expectancy over many decades and many direct lightning strikes.  That (not a model number or brand name) defines your best solution.

[westom]

Yes there are 3 wires of ground, one is dedicated for rig,
What should the next step.

3 wires of ground?  A receptacle would have two power wires and one safety ground.  Safety ground does nothing to protect hardware and does nothing to make a protector effective.  It exists to protect you (human life).

That wall receptacle safety ground is completely different from earth ground.  A homeowner is responsible to know what earth ground is and to maintain it.

Find a bare copper, quarter inch hardwire that goes from the mains box (power board), outside, to an earth ground electrode.  If that does not exist, then no effective protection is possible.  And a serious human safety issue also exists.

All was simplified to a 'high school science knowledge' level.  But since new, then it must be read at least three times.  Rephrasing same here may help.

Once inside a house, that surge will find potentially destructive paths to earth.

 All protection is about connecting a surge to earth BEFORE it can enter.  That explains why an above bare copper hardwire is critical.

A 'whole house' protector is required to protect computers, to protect any plug-in protector, and to protect all other 'just at risk' or 'at greater risk' appliances.  Including a dishwasher, clocks, refrigerator, garage door opener, LED & CFL bulbs, furnace, recharging electronics, dimmer switches, central air (even when not in use), and every smoke detector.

Everything posted was learned in school.  High school math was defined.  What Ben Franklin demonstrated was taught in elementary school science.  What Franklin demonstrated is also what protects appliances and computers.  What Franklin demonstrated does not require expert language.  What Franklin demonstrated is also what you must do to properly earth every incoming utility wire via a 'whole house' protector.

That 'whole house' protector protects appliances for the same reason that Franklin's lightning rod protects a structure.  In both cases, protection is only as effective as (is defined by) earth ground.

Go to any big box hardware store or electrical supply house.  Ask the 'whole house' protector that they sell.  Then confirm it is at least 50,000 amps.  (Honesty is impossible without numbers.)

Last paragraph ('effective protector sold like rice') defines what must be purchased to effectively connect incoming utility wires to earth.  Best protection is distant from every appliance and as close as possible to earth ground.