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Author Topic: Mining with asics is already dead.  (Read 6718 times)
KonstantinosM
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September 03, 2013, 10:10:32 PM
 #21

I bought a BFL single and I've mined many altcoins and other things so I don't have an exact amount of what I have mined in terms of BTC. I have certainly mined around 2 BTC already.

The miner cost $683 (with shipping) for 30 GH/s (it works at this level)

I think I can ROI really easily. From now on I'll just mine BTC until it does ROI.


I only have about .5 BTC in my wallet though!

I did use my mined BTC to buy games from the humble bundle, so since I paid fiat (for the miner) and saved money in fiat by paying less for all these games I can say that I'm good!
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Come-from-Beyond
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September 03, 2013, 10:19:50 PM
 #22

From now on I'll just mine BTC until it does ROI.

Free electricity?
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September 03, 2013, 10:56:26 PM
 #23

Guaranteed profit just happens to be the same as the BFL Monarch price.  I'll send you 50 BTC and then my Monarch is FREE!!

Right?

You got it! Act now and reserve your place in line. Payouts will happen in order of actual payments. All sales are final. No refunds!
L.O.L.  I like it.
bcp19
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September 03, 2013, 11:57:32 PM
 #24

The situation is even worse than u think, guys. Just look at http://blockchain.info/charts/network-deficit.

EDIT: And this - http://blockchain.info/charts/miners-operating-profit-margin. Do u see the trend?
Considering they are still operating on GPU power calculations, of course it LOOKS like a defecit.  Look at the bottom of the stats page:  "* Electricity consumption is estimated based on power consumption of 650 Watts per gigahash and electricity price of 15 cent per kilowatt hour. In reality some miners will be more or less efficient."

None of the ASIC are running at 650 watts of power per GH.

I do not suffer fools gladly... "Captain!  We're surrounded!"
I embrace my inner Kool-Aid.
crazyates
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September 04, 2013, 01:14:47 AM
 #25

Holy crap, I've been wasting my time!

*Quits bitcoin mining*
I just threw mine in the trash. So glad someone told me before I wasted more electricity!

Tips? 1crazy8pMqgwJ7tX7ZPZmyPwFbc6xZKM9
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September 04, 2013, 01:37:22 AM
 #26

Holy crap, I've been wasting my time!

*Quits bitcoin mining*
I just threw mine in the trash. So glad someone told me before I wasted more electricity!
* ckolivas stalks outside crazyates' house and intercepts his trash

Primary developer/maintainer for cgminer and ckpool/ckproxy.
ZERO FEE Pooled mining at ckpool.org 1% Fee Solo mining at solo.ckpool.org
-ck
k9quaint
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September 04, 2013, 02:32:56 AM
 #27

Maybe it's just a mind trick but if you spend 50 btc at 100$ rate and you get only 43 at 200 i say you end up better

Ok, send me 50 btc (at $130 now), and when it his $260, I'll send you 43 btc.

Initial Value: $6500.
Ending Value: $11,180
Guaranteed Profit: $4680.

As many people as want can take advantage of this guaranteed ROI. Just send your 50 btc to 1vgzHWzzcsYejaqtP7RHGzsE549ySKQa2.

Oh yeah? Well if you send me 49 BTC, I will send you 44 BTC when the exchange rate hits $350!!

Initial Value: $6,370
Ending Value: $15,400!!!
Guaranteed Profit: $9030!!  Almost twice the profit!!

PM me if you are interested in the deal of the century.

Bitcoin is backed by the full faith and credit of YouTube comments.
bcp19
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September 04, 2013, 02:56:31 AM
 #28

Maybe it's just a mind trick but if you spend 50 btc at 100$ rate and you get only 43 at 200 i say you end up better

Ok, send me 50 btc (at $130 now), and when it his $260, I'll send you 43 btc.

Initial Value: $6500.
Ending Value: $11,180
Guaranteed Profit: $4680.

As many people as want can take advantage of this guaranteed ROI. Just send your 50 btc to 1vgzHWzzcsYejaqtP7RHGzsE549ySKQa2.

Oh yeah? Well if you send me 49 BTC, I will send you 44 BTC when the exchange rate hits $350!!

Initial Value: $6,370
Ending Value: $15,400!!!
Guaranteed Profit: $9030!!  Almost twice the profit!!

PM me if you are interested in the deal of the century.
How about I send you 44 and you send me 49 when the rate hits $70?

I do not suffer fools gladly... "Captain!  We're surrounded!"
I embrace my inner Kool-Aid.
k9quaint
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September 04, 2013, 03:03:11 AM
 #29

Maybe it's just a mind trick but if you spend 50 btc at 100$ rate and you get only 43 at 200 i say you end up better

Ok, send me 50 btc (at $130 now), and when it his $260, I'll send you 43 btc.

Initial Value: $6500.
Ending Value: $11,180
Guaranteed Profit: $4680.

As many people as want can take advantage of this guaranteed ROI. Just send your 50 btc to 1vgzHWzzcsYejaqtP7RHGzsE549ySKQa2.

Oh yeah? Well if you send me 49 BTC, I will send you 44 BTC when the exchange rate hits $350!!

Initial Value: $6,370
Ending Value: $15,400!!!
Guaranteed Profit: $9030!!  Almost twice the profit!!

PM me if you are interested in the deal of the century.
How about I send you 44 and you send me 49 when the rate hits $70?

If you want to open a service that does that, feel free. Until then, my offer of GUARANTEED PROFITS stands.
Send me 49 BTC, I will send you 44 BTC when the exchange rate hits $350!!

Initial Value: $6,370
Ending Value: $15,400!!!
Guaranteed Profit: $9030!!

Order now and I might include a 24K Gold-Plated Buffalo Nickel, plated with precious 24K gold.

Bitcoin is backed by the full faith and credit of YouTube comments.
TooDumbForBitcoin
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September 04, 2013, 02:29:14 PM
 #30

Quote

That chart is based on blockchain.info's assumption of 650W/Gh/s electrical usage, which is at least 10x too high, and getting "too higher" by the day.

Several weeks ago organofcorti concluded the correct figure is 80W/Gh/s, and the hashrate has doubled or tripled since then, meaning lots of <80W/Gh/s mining equipment has since come on line.

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TooDumbForBitcoin
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September 04, 2013, 02:36:15 PM
 #31

Quote
Send me 49 BTC, I will send you 44 BTC when the exchange rate hits $350!!

Initial Value: $6,370
Ending Value: $15,400!!!
Guaranteed Profit: $9030!!

Order now and I might include a 24K Gold-Plated Buffalo Nickel, plated with precious 24K gold.

Here is my offer:

You send me 30 BTC in June of 2012.  One year later (or so) I will send you a piece of equipment that cost me 2 BTC today to make.  I will keep the other 28 BTC, and call you a name.

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  HERO 
...                                                                                                   ...
                The Future of Banking in Southeast Asia                   
           ■ Website   ■ Whitepaper   ■ Bounties   ■ Join our Slack         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
      PRE-SALE       
      starting soon       
                                                                                                                                           
bcp19
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September 04, 2013, 07:13:20 PM
 #32

Until then, my offer of GUARANTEED PROFITS stands.
Send me 49 BTC, I will send you 44 BTC when the exchange rate hits $350!!

Initial Value: $6,370
Ending Value: $15,400!!!
Guaranteed Profit: $9030!!

What's the time limit on this guaranteed profit?  If the rate isn't up to $350 in a year, you going to payout $15,400 worth of BTC since you have offered a guaranteed $9030 profit?  If you want people to take a risk, you have to have risk yourself.

I do not suffer fools gladly... "Captain!  We're surrounded!"
I embrace my inner Kool-Aid.
lightfoot
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September 04, 2013, 07:24:34 PM
 #33

Just got my BFL Jally last week (ordered in Jan for $180 or so) and already I feel like a pro. Monday I got my dragon programmer, and I was up till 1am clocking it up from 5 to 7.5gh. Then difficulty changed, it's all my fault.

So of course today I just bought an erupter for $38.00, was $45 last week, but difficulty just hopped. :-)

Why?

Well, first I have an open USB port here. But more to the point, winter is coming on, and I need to keep the top floor warm. Normally I would use gas heat with a 1.5kw heater as a supplemental. However my Jally is now dissipating 30w of heat (up from 20), and each erupter can generate 5 watts or so? That will reduce the need to use the heater, and "make" money.

So think of it this way: You have an electric water heater in your basement? Pull the filament and heat it with erupters. No wait, make a heating element *out of* erupters that you can put in the tank in place of the heater that's there now. 4500 watt element would be 900 erupters. That's a 300gh unit that you can use forever to heat your water and it will make bitcoins! Why use a heating element? :-)

Bitcoin is less like a prisoner dillema and more like a dollar auction. I mine because it's entertaining.

C
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September 04, 2013, 08:50:37 PM
 #34

Until then, my offer of GUARANTEED PROFITS stands.
Send me 49 BTC, I will send you 44 BTC when the exchange rate hits $350!!

Initial Value: $6,370
Ending Value: $15,400!!!
Guaranteed Profit: $9030!!

What's the time limit on this guaranteed profit?  If the rate isn't up to $350 in a year, you going to payout $15,400 worth of BTC since you have offered a guaranteed $9030 profit?  If you want people to take a risk, you have to have risk yourself.

Payout in two or more months.

Buy & Hold
dbbit
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September 04, 2013, 09:09:16 PM
 #35

These are figured at a 30% increase every diff change.

So you figure that a year from now there will be more ASIC chips manufactured in the world, than all other microchips combined?
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September 05, 2013, 12:30:00 AM
 #36

Just got my BFL Jally last week (ordered in Jan for $180 or so) and already I feel like a pro. Monday I got my dragon programmer, and I was up till 1am clocking it up from 5 to 7.5gh. Then difficulty changed, it's all my fault.

So of course today I just bought an erupter for $38.00, was $45 last week, but difficulty just hopped. :-)

Why?

Well, first I have an open USB port here. But more to the point, winter is coming on, and I need to keep the top floor warm. Normally I would use gas heat with a 1.5kw heater as a supplemental. However my Jally is now dissipating 30w of heat (up from 20), and each erupter can generate 5 watts or so? That will reduce the need to use the heater, and "make" money.

So think of it this way: You have an electric water heater in your basement? Pull the filament and heat it with erupters. No wait, make a heating element *out of* erupters that you can put in the tank in place of the heater that's there now. 4500 watt element would be 900 erupters. That's a 300gh unit that you can use forever to heat your water and it will make bitcoins! Why use a heating element? :-)

Bitcoin is less like a prisoner dillema and more like a dollar auction. I mine because it's entertaining.

C
this is an interesting idea.  I wonder if an ASIC can work as a tankless water heater.
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September 05, 2013, 06:15:06 AM
 #37

These are figured at a 30% increase every diff change.

So you figure that a year from now there will be more ASIC chips manufactured in the world, than all other microchips combined?


Did you calculate that or is it a guess?

If you calculated, did you take into account that the number of hashes per chip is going up all the time?
dbbit
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September 05, 2013, 08:09:26 AM
 #38

These are figured at a 30% increase every diff change.

So you figure that a year from now there will be more ASIC chips manufactured in the world, than all other microchips combined?


Did you calculate that or is it a guess?

If you calculated, did you take into account that the number of hashes per chip is going up all the time?


Calculated.

To get to a difficulty of 2.5 trillion in a year (which is what 33% period-over-period implies), you need 20'000 peta hashes of computing power. With 5 ghash chips, you need 4 billion chips a year. Intel currently ships 1 billion chips per year.

Ok, but let's go for those big 500ghash cointerra chips that come out in 3 months, and say they can quad it to 2 TH within 1 year. (Keep in mind that Cointerra 28n/s technology is only marginally below state of the art manufacturing that is being used by Intel).

So that means someone still needs to manufacture, ship and sell 10 million x 2 TH chips within 1 year. And they will need to package that into a device and sell the whole thing for less than $13.5 each, otherwise nobody will buy it. (The whole bitcoin network just generates $750k per day - regardless of network size. So multiply by 6 months and divide by 10 million).

Those 500 ghash cointerra chips sell for $2870 each. It's not going to double twice in power and drop to less than $1 each within 1 year. That didn't even happen with GPU to ASIC, and that was a huge step-change in technology.


[EDIT]: Of course that won't stop BFL from starting to take pre-orders for it today...
lightfoot
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September 05, 2013, 01:44:28 PM
 #39

this is an interesting idea.  I wonder if an ASIC can work as a tankless water heater.
Quite possibly: put the ASICs inside a copper waterproof tube that goes into the water heater, then use either direct-connects to the tube walls or heat pipes to conduct the heat to the walls.

The only issue then becomes how hot can you run the chips, and how hot do you like your water? If the chip temp limit is 140 that's the max temp your water can be at. The other issue of course is the thermodynamics behind heat transfer at dissimilar temps, the closer the two plates are to same temp the less heat that can be transferred. Hm.

Maybe what this needs to be billed as is a "pre-heater tank". That's it: You build a say 5 gallon copper tank, then line the *outside* of it with ASICs, then insulation. It takes the cold water from the utility, heats it up as much as it can, then when you turn on the faucet it goes into the bottom of the main tank where your electric heater can finish boosting the temp to household. Stratification is limited by water coming in and out.

If you want to run this contraption 24*7, you put a small heat exchanger in the tank, connected to a radiator outside the insulation zone. Kick on that pump if water temp >120 or something. But in this thought experiment the main goal is to heat your house water for less by subsidizing your heat with bitcoins.

I may actually try this with an erupter, heat sink it to the copper inlet pipe on my water system, right across from the expansion tank (to increase the water sinking mass). My wife is going to love me.....

C
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September 05, 2013, 03:00:35 PM
 #40

Your correct psjw4450, ASIC miners bought today will not make there money back at the prices there sold for today.

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