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Author Topic: Making bitcoins available to everyone?  (Read 2828 times)
tkbx
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September 03, 2013, 01:35:36 PM
 #1

Lately I've been thinking about the future of Bitcoin, and the possibility of it becoming mainstream. The only problem I can see is getting bitcoins into the hands of everyone who wants them. Once Bitcoin has many, many users (say ~100,000,000), banks, credit cards, services like Paypal, and even governments, are going to try to do something about it.

Currently, anyone can use Paypal or Moneygram to convert their USD into BTC. But will these services take steps to prevent the purchase of Bitcoin? If a decent number of current Bitcoin users are seemingly unable to download Bitcoin-qt or Electrum (and therefore use volatile and insecure online wallets), will an 80-year-old be able to jump through all the current hoops you need to jump through to get Bitcoin, plus a few more put in place by financial institutes?
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September 03, 2013, 01:36:47 PM
 #2

What am I a fortuneteller?
tkbx
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September 03, 2013, 02:13:16 PM
 #3

What am I a fortuneteller?
That's helpful
murraypaul
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September 03, 2013, 02:17:36 PM
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Currently, anyone can use Paypal or Moneygram to convert their USD into BTC. But will these services take steps to prevent the purchase of Bitcoin?

You cannot (according to their terms of use) use PayPal to sell BTC.
If you do, and PayPal notices, they will reverse the transaction, and you will have neither BTC nor USD.

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September 03, 2013, 02:32:02 PM
 #5

This sounds ugly and calloused, but going after eighty-year-olds makes no sense.  Unless you're pushing age-specific services, don't bother focusing on 44+ -- most marketers don't.  Not only are the spending habits all wrong, but by the time 80-yr-olds adopt bitcoin, what will they buy?  A casket, a grave plot or an all-expense trip to a crematorium?
Let's keep focused on realistic goals.
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September 03, 2013, 06:19:24 PM
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lol.  I think that helps explain why the "ignore" button is the color that it is.

What am I a fortuneteller?
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September 03, 2013, 06:28:39 PM
 #7

They are available to everyone, although it requires more effort than it should.

But there are some known key demographic groups that could hasten the transition.

  • Celebrities
  • Sports figures
  • Wealthy people
  • "Cool" people

"The success of any kind of social epidemic is heavily dependent on the involvement of people with a particular and rare set of social gifts"

dancupid
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September 03, 2013, 06:34:47 PM
 #8

This sounds ugly and calloused, but going after eighty-year-olds makes no sense.  Unless you're pushing age-specific services, don't bother focusing on 44+ -- most marketers don't.  Not only are the spending habits all wrong, but by the time 80-yr-olds adopt bitcoin, what will they buy?  A casket, a grave plot or an all-expense trip to a crematorium?
Let's keep focused on realistic goals.

Hey! I'm 44.
I can use bitcoin just fine - except when the client minimizes unexpectedly and I don't know how to maximize it again - I just pull the plug out  (I wait 10 minutes just to be sure) and restart  the computer when that happens.
tkbx
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September 03, 2013, 06:36:09 PM
 #9

Currently, anyone can use Paypal or Moneygram to convert their USD into BTC. But will these services take steps to prevent the purchase of Bitcoin?

You cannot (according to their terms of use) use PayPal to sell BTC.
If you do, and PayPal notices, they will reverse the transaction, and you will have neither BTC nor USD.
I mean trading with a person. Anyone can contact a miner and "gift" $140 and get a bitcoin in return.
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September 03, 2013, 06:50:01 PM
 #10

This sounds ugly and calloused, but going after eighty-year-olds makes no sense.  Unless you're pushing age-specific services, don't bother focusing on 44+ -- most marketers don't.  Not only are the spending habits all wrong, but by the time 80-yr-olds adopt bitcoin, what will they buy?  A casket, a grave plot or an all-expense trip to a crematorium?
Let's keep focused on realistic goals.

Actually Bitcoin makes a lot more sense to someone who was brought up using cash and experienced the great depression and bank runs of the 1930s even as a child than every other form of electronic money today. As for what an 80 year old can do with Bitcoin here is an idea from a 90 year old to fund one's retirement:

Quote
In 1965, aged 90 years and with no heirs, Calment signed a deal to sell her former apartment to lawyer André-François Raffray, on a contingency contract. Raffray, then aged 47 years, agreed to pay her a monthly sum of 2,500 francs until she died. Raffray ended up paying Calment the equivalent of more than $180,000, which was more than double the apartment's value. After Raffray's death from cancer at the age of 77, in 1995, his widow continued the payments until Calment's death.[2] During all these years, Calment used to say to them that she "competed with Methuselah".[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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September 03, 2013, 07:15:58 PM
 #11

This sounds ugly and calloused, but going after eighty-year-olds makes no sense.  Unless you're pushing age-specific services, don't bother focusing on 44+ -- most marketers don't.  Not only are the spending habits all wrong, but by the time 80-yr-olds adopt bitcoin, what will they buy?  A casket, a grave plot or an all-expense trip to a crematorium?
Let's keep focused on realistic goals.

Actually Bitcoin makes a lot more sense to someone who was brought up using cash and experienced the great depression and bank runs of the 1930s even as a child than every other form of electronic money today. As for what an 80 year old can do with Bitcoin here is an idea from a 90 year old to fund one's retirement:

Quote
In 1965, aged 90 years and with no heirs, Calment signed a deal to sell her former apartment to lawyer André-François Raffray, on a contingency contract. Raffray, then aged 47 years, agreed to pay her a monthly sum of 2,500 francs until she died. Raffray ended up paying Calment the equivalent of more than $180,000, which was more than double the apartment's value. After Raffray's death from cancer at the age of 77, in 1995, his widow continued the payments until Calment's death.[2] During all these years, Calment used to say to them that she "competed with Methuselah".[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment

It doesn't matter how much sense bitcoin makes to people with:
   a) No money
   b) No computer.
   c) Expected lifespan < 2 yrs.
Anecdotal evidence (the story you posted), while proving that X is possible, doesn't imply that X is likely.  While there may be people who live to be 150, it's foolish to gear your product to 150-yr-olds if you're in it for money & not just lulz.

As far as remembering bank runs as a child?  If you're old enough to remember those, you're old enough to *not remember anything else*.  I'm sorry, but if i'm over 80, i prefer to be mercifully put down over having to trade in bitcoin on this forum Angry
ArticMine
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September 03, 2013, 08:16:34 PM
 #12

This sounds ugly and calloused, but going after eighty-year-olds makes no sense.  Unless you're pushing age-specific services, don't bother focusing on 44+ -- most marketers don't.  Not only are the spending habits all wrong, but by the time 80-yr-olds adopt bitcoin, what will they buy?  A casket, a grave plot or an all-expense trip to a crematorium?
Let's keep focused on realistic goals.

Actually Bitcoin makes a lot more sense to someone who was brought up using cash and experienced the great depression and bank runs of the 1930s even as a child than every other form of electronic money today. As for what an 80 year old can do with Bitcoin here is an idea from a 90 year old to fund one's retirement:

Quote
In 1965, aged 90 years and with no heirs, Calment signed a deal to sell her former apartment to lawyer André-François Raffray, on a contingency contract. Raffray, then aged 47 years, agreed to pay her a monthly sum of 2,500 francs until she died. Raffray ended up paying Calment the equivalent of more than $180,000, which was more than double the apartment's value. After Raffray's death from cancer at the age of 77, in 1995, his widow continued the payments until Calment's death.[2] During all these years, Calment used to say to them that she "competed with Methuselah".[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment

It doesn't matter how much sense bitcoin makes to people with:
   a) No money
   b) No computer.
   c) Expected lifespan < 2 yrs.
Anecdotal evidence (the story you posted), while proving that X is possible, doesn't imply that X is likely.  While there may be people who live to be 150, it's foolish to gear your product to 150-yr-olds if you're in it for money & not just lulz.

As far as remembering bank runs as a child?  If you're old enough to remember those, you're old enough to *not remember anything else*.  I'm sorry, but if i'm over 80, i prefer to be mercifully put down over having to trade in bitcoin on this forum Angry


So I take it you would consider purchasing the apartment like André-François Raffray but with payments in BTC, so now we need to find an 80 year old with an apartment to sell.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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September 03, 2013, 09:46:12 PM
 #13

This sounds ugly and calloused, but going after eighty-year-olds makes no sense.  Unless you're pushing age-specific services, don't bother focusing on 44+ -- most marketers don't.  Not only are the spending habits all wrong, but by the time 80-yr-olds adopt bitcoin, what will they buy?  A casket, a grave plot or an all-expense trip to a crematorium?
Let's keep focused on realistic goals.

Actually Bitcoin makes a lot more sense to someone who was brought up using cash and experienced the great depression and bank runs of the 1930s even as a child than every other form of electronic money today. As for what an 80 year old can do with Bitcoin here is an idea from a 90 year old to fund one's retirement:

Quote
In 1965, aged 90 years and with no heirs, Calment signed a deal to sell her former apartment to lawyer André-François Raffray, on a contingency contract. Raffray, then aged 47 years, agreed to pay her a monthly sum of 2,500 francs until she died. Raffray ended up paying Calment the equivalent of more than $180,000, which was more than double the apartment's value. After Raffray's death from cancer at the age of 77, in 1995, his widow continued the payments until Calment's death.[2] During all these years, Calment used to say to them that she "competed with Methuselah".[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment

It doesn't matter how much sense bitcoin makes to people with:
   a) No money
   b) No computer.
   c) Expected lifespan < 2 yrs.
Anecdotal evidence (the story you posted), while proving that X is possible, doesn't imply that X is likely.  While there may be people who live to be 150, it's foolish to gear your product to 150-yr-olds if you're in it for money & not just lulz.

As far as remembering bank runs as a child?  If you're old enough to remember those, you're old enough to *not remember anything else*.  I'm sorry, but if i'm over 80, i prefer to be mercifully put down over having to trade in bitcoin on this forum Angry


So I take it you would consider purchasing the apartment like André-François Raffray but with payments in BTC, so now we need to find an 80 year old with an apartment to sell.

Not sure what you mean -- this thread is about making bitcoin more accessible, not conning octogenarians out of apartments.
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September 03, 2013, 11:22:50 PM
 #14

In my example the 47 year old lawyer died before the 90 year old who sold the apartment to him and when his estate finally got the apartment after 32 years, the total amount of payments made to the 90 year old until her death at age 122 was more than twice the value of the apartment.

Yes this thread is about promoting Bitcoin to everyone regardless of age not to just arrogant 47 year olds (or 20 year olds) for that matter who believe they are going to outlive a 90 year old and are then proven wrong.  Wink

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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September 03, 2013, 11:52:32 PM
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In my example the 47 year old lawyer died before the 90 year old who sold the apartment to him and when his estate finally got the apartment after 32 years, the total amount of payments made to the 90 year old until her death at age 122 was more than twice the value of the apartment.

Yes this thread is about promoting Bitcoin to everyone regardless of age not to just arrogant 47 year olds (or 20 year olds) for that matter who believe they are going to outlive a 90 year old and are then proven wrong.  Wink

For every 80-yr-old lady who outlives a 47-yr-old arrogant lawyer, there are hundreds of 47-yr-old arrogant lawyers who outlive their respective 80-yr-old victims.  If this sounds improbable to you, you have a big heart, but (at best) a shaky grasp of statistics.

If you wish to do nice things for old people, i'm sure your local church or charity would gladly accept your contributions.  This thread, on the other hand, seeks practical ways to achieve wider bitcoin acceptance -- it's not your soapbox for preaching anti-ageist political correctness!

Making bitcoin accessible to people who are ready to drop dead sounds to me like the kind of nannystate-socialism Obama would think up!
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September 04, 2013, 12:05:20 AM
 #16

if everyone finds a local demand for bitcoins in their area, but finds no local solution. don't bitch about it.

become that local solution.

for instance. if you know another community member that lives in another state country. how about group together you resourses.

instead of one person having to buy over 50 licences just to do business in america. get 50 people together to just buy their own state's licence and group yourselves together under one brand name. that way it covers everyone as agents of each other.

then you have your own 'patch of land' to work in and be legit.

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Don't take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist.
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September 04, 2013, 12:50:28 AM
 #17

In my example the 47 year old lawyer died before the 90 year old who sold the apartment to him and when his estate finally got the apartment after 32 years, the total amount of payments made to the 90 year old until her death at age 122 was more than twice the value of the apartment.

Yes this thread is about promoting Bitcoin to everyone regardless of age not to just arrogant 47 year olds (or 20 year olds) for that matter who believe they are going to outlive a 90 year old and are then proven wrong.  Wink

For every 80-yr-old lady who outlives a 47-yr-old arrogant lawyer, there are hundreds of 47-yr-old arrogant lawyers who outlive their respective 80-yr-old victims.  If this sounds improbable to you, you have a big heart, but (at best) a shaky grasp of statistics.

If you wish to do nice things for old people, i'm sure your local church or charity would gladly accept your contributions.  This thread, on the other hand, seeks practical ways to achieve wider bitcoin acceptance -- it's not your soapbox for preaching anti-ageist political correctness!

Making bitcoin accessible to people who are ready to drop dead sounds to me like the kind of nannystate-socialism Obama would think up!


So what do you suggest they use instead? PayPal? Debit Cards? Credit Cards? Oh I know since you are in the United States an EFT card so that:
1) The "nanny state" can control how they spend their money
2) The so called "free enterprise" partners of the "nanny state" can collect fees on every transaction
What many people fail to understand is that the elderly is the fastest growing demographic in North America and that Bitcoin is actually something they can relate to since it behaves like cash and gold. Bitcoin is way simpler to use than all the the electronic alternatives being promoted regardless of age.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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September 04, 2013, 01:02:57 AM
 #18

In my example the 47 year old lawyer died before the 90 year old who sold the apartment to him and when his estate finally got the apartment after 32 years, the total amount of payments made to the 90 year old until her death at age 122 was more than twice the value of the apartment.

Yes this thread is about promoting Bitcoin to everyone regardless of age not to just arrogant 47 year olds (or 20 year olds) for that matter who believe they are going to outlive a 90 year old and are then proven wrong.  Wink

For every 80-yr-old lady who outlives a 47-yr-old arrogant lawyer, there are hundreds of 47-yr-old arrogant lawyers who outlive their respective 80-yr-old victims.  If this sounds improbable to you, you have a big heart, but (at best) a shaky grasp of statistics.

If you wish to do nice things for old people, i'm sure your local church or charity would gladly accept your contributions.  This thread, on the other hand, seeks practical ways to achieve wider bitcoin acceptance -- it's not your soapbox for preaching anti-ageist political correctness!

Making bitcoin accessible to people who are ready to drop dead sounds to me like the kind of nannystate-socialism Obama would think up!


So what do you suggest they use instead? PayPal? Debit Cards? Credit Cards? Oh I know since you are in the United States an EFT card so that:
1) The "nanny state" can control how they spend their money
2) The so called "free enterprise" partners of the "nanny state" can collect fees on every transaction
What many people fail to understand is that the elderly is that fastest growing demographic in North America and that Bitcoin is actually something they can relate to since it behaves like cash and gold.

You know what behaves even more like cash and gold than bitcoin?  Ready?  Cash and gold.
And the elderly, the fastest growing segment of North American population, already know how to use both.

As an American, i can tell you that my granny has *never* needed to use EFT.  But if i had a choice between the government and Br0 Haxor from Belize tracking her transactions, well...
Now that you have your answer, get back on topic, plox.  As much fun as this has been, i'm afraid we're not furthering bitcoin's acceptance at all Angry
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September 04, 2013, 01:53:17 AM
 #19

What am I a fortuneteller?
That's helpful
haha ^^
murraypaul
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September 04, 2013, 08:03:32 AM
 #20

So what do you suggest they use instead? PayPal? Debit Cards? Credit Cards?

Yes, because those can all be used to actually buy things.

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SRC: scefi1XMhq91n3oF5FrE3HqddVvvCZP9KB
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