Goose20 outstanding Loan

[zazarb]

All i am saying is that there has been NO dishonesty here. There has been NO scamming here.

And your feedback would be more appropriate and accurate if it was neutral and said "has not fully repaid a loan yet...", as I have not gone dark.

Cheers

Pathetic, because you are doing it right now,
and the saying that you will be able to repay, when btc price fail to $1000, same as saying that you never paid back.

[1713581273]

1713581273

[1713581273]

1713581273

[Quickseller]

This is very similar to what happened to dank several years ago. Borrow a couple hundred dollars worth of bitcoin for something, it doesn't work out, repaid many times (in terms of USD) the amount borrowed, only to not make a dent in the BTC amount of the loan. Dank eventually stopped trying to repay his debt.

Zazarb - I am not sure how much fiat currency you have, however what I have advised you do for longer term loans, and loans in which the borrower is running late, is when the BTC price is skyrocketing, offer to convert the loan into a USD (or other fiat currency) based loan for a fee, and if they agree, buy an equivalent amount of bitcoin on an exchange (when the borrower repays the loan, you can sell the bitcoin the repay you, so you end up with the same amount of USD and BTC). I am not saying you are wrong (I don't think you are wrong), however this would substantially increase your chances of getting repaid when BTC goes through the roof.

I would repeat what KWH said upthread, you both should try to reach a settlement agreement so that goose20 can make a payment that will satisfy the loan. Being that the payment is ~9 months late, repayment is doubtful otherwise

[goose20]

All i am saying is that there has been NO dishonesty here. There has been NO scamming here.

And your feedback would be more appropriate and accurate if it was neutral and said "has not fully repaid a loan yet...", as I have not gone dark.

Cheers

Pathetic, because you are doing it right now,
and the saying that you will be able to repay, when btc price fail to $1000, same as saying that you never paid back.

That is 2 times now you've called me pathetic, along with calling me a scammer. You may want to keep in mind the saying 'you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar'. I don't respond to bullying and heavy-handed tactics. I've always communicated with you with courtesy. I remind you that i haven't scammed you and i have never lied to you.

And your second sentence above - you've misunderstood what i said because you've not taken it in the context i said it in.

Finally, i have not gone 'dark'. Dark would mean somebody who is regularly on here suddenly disappears. Either stops coming on regularly or starts a new account. I haven't started a new account. And in the 6-18 months prior to this, i came on here rarely anyways compared to my first 2-3years.

Cheers

[Timelord2067]

That is 2 times now you've called me pathetic, along with calling me a scammer. You may want to keep in mind the saying 'you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar'. I don't respond to bullying and heavy-handed tactics. I've always communicated with you with courtesy. I remind you that i haven't scammed you and i have never lied to you.

And your second sentence above - you've misunderstood what i said because you've not taken it in the context i said it in.

Finally, i have not gone 'dark'. Dark would mean somebody who is regularly on here suddenly disappears. Either stops coming on regularly or starts a new account. I haven't started a new account. And in the 6-18 months prior to this, i came on here rarely anyways compared to my first 2-3years.

Cheers

That is very pathetic of you goose20 to say that - very pathetic indeed.

What a pathetic notion.

(Do I win a prize for calling you pathetic three times?)

[Timelord2067]

[[Archived]]

[MadZ]

It's pretty obvious Dank is an alt of quickseller.

You'd have to be on whatever dank was on to seriously believe this 

[Quickseller]

It's pretty obvious Dank is an alt of quickseller.

You'd have to be on whatever dank was on to seriously believe this 

lol.

[zazarb]

All i am saying is that there has been NO dishonesty here. There has been NO scamming here.

And your feedback would be more appropriate and accurate if it was neutral and said "has not fully repaid a loan yet...", as I have not gone dark.

Cheers

Pathetic, because you are doing it right now,
and the saying that you will be able to repay, when btc price fail to $1000, same as saying that you never paid back.

That is 2 times now you've called me pathetic, along with calling me a scammer. You may want to keep in mind the saying 'you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar'. I don't respond to bullying and heavy-handed tactics. I've always communicated with you with courtesy. I remind you that i haven't scammed you and i have never lied to you.

And your second sentence above - you've misunderstood what i said because you've not taken it in the context i said it in.

Finally, i have not gone 'dark'. Dark would mean somebody who is regularly on here suddenly disappears. Either stops coming on regularly or starts a new account. I haven't started a new account. And in the 6-18 months prior to this, i came on here rarely anyways compared to my first 2-3years.

Cheers

Pathetic -this is not an offense,
"Scammer"- I never said so, except OP, when I used standard report format.
I do not care how much "flies I catch", even if it is a threat (not paid) , from your side.

i have not gone 'dark'.

- How do I know it? you come out of the discussion has not made any decision of solving problem.

here full sentence, and what other can means it ?

Next week it could fall to $1000 again and all of this drama was for nothing as i could then afford to repay

The only positive thing that happened here, You recognized that you owe money, via pm you tried to prove otherwise.

[goose20]

All i am saying is that there has been NO dishonesty here. There has been NO scamming here.

And your feedback would be more appropriate and accurate if it was neutral and said "has not fully repaid a loan yet...", as I have not gone dark.

Cheers

Pathetic, because you are doing it right now,
and the saying that you will be able to repay, when btc price fail to $1000, same as saying that you never paid back.

That is 2 times now you've called me pathetic, along with calling me a scammer. You may want to keep in mind the saying 'you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar'. I don't respond to bullying and heavy-handed tactics. I've always communicated with you with courtesy. I remind you that i haven't scammed you and i have never lied to you.

And your second sentence above - you've misunderstood what i said because you've not taken it in the context i said it in.

Finally, i have not gone 'dark'. Dark would mean somebody who is regularly on here suddenly disappears. Either stops coming on regularly or starts a new account. I haven't started a new account. And in the 6-18 months prior to this, i came on here rarely anyways compared to my first 2-3years.

Cheers

Pathetic -this is not an offense,
"Scammer"- I never said so, except OP, when I used standard report format.
I do not care how much "flies I catch", even if it is a threat (not paid) , from your side.

i have not gone 'dark'.

- How do I know it? you come out of the discussion has not made any decision of solving problem.

here full sentence, and what other can means it ?

Next week it could fall to $1000 again and all of this drama was for nothing as i could then afford to repay

The only positive thing that happened here, You recognized that you owe money, via pm you tried to prove otherwise.

Pathetic -this is not an offense,

No it's not an offence, just not something to call someone you are wanting a positive resolution from. At least not in my opinion.

"Scammer"- I never said so, except OP, when I used standard report format.

What the hell?? - that has been my point - that you know i have NOT scammed you. This 'Scam Accusations' sub-forum is NOT the place for this matter. People come to this section without reading and just jump to conclusions - there have only been 3 or so people in this thread who seem to have actually read the thread and said something helpful - the others not so much.

here full sentence, and what other can means it ?

Next week it could fall to $1000 again and all of this drama was for nothing as i could then afford to repay

How about we look at the whole paragraph for the context:

Why even say 'he could have sold the btc for a nice profit'? That just proves what i am saying - the reality is EVERYTHING btc related is referenced back to $$'s. And currently i cannot afford the $$ to buy the btc because it is much higher than when the loan was taken out. Next week it could fall to $1000 again and all of this drama was for nothing as i could then afford to repay.

I said $1,000 again, because that what is was roughly when this all started. Not because it has to fall to that amount for me to repay. I was saying the only reason for any of this has been the btc price going 10x - 20x, nothing else.

The only positive thing that happened here, You recognized that you owe money, via pm you tried to prove otherwise.

No i have not. It the PM you are referring to, i was placing this matter in context overall, just like i have stated in posts in this thread. I have always acknowledged i have not paid the debt in full in btc terms. But from a fiat perspective, and from an overall dealings perspective between us, up to 20 deals, you are in front and this is 1 deal in many that hasn't been resolved. You've had many months to offer a solution to the on-going and ever-increasing repayments i have had to make, that's May 2017 to Feb 2018, but nothing this whole time. Its as if you said to yourself 'well since he is making part payments, I'll just let him struggle and continue to pay'. But as soon as i say i cant afford it at the moment due to x and y - you immediately open a scam accusation.

From my perspective that's really shitty man. I communicated with you the whole time how stressed i was about the repayments owed, yet i continued making them for months. Then you just do this to me.
You are in the business of lending. And because no borrower can be perfect all the time, you protect yourself by charging interest. And you've continued to charge me interest to this day.
I understand this is frustrating for you as it is for me. But the way you turned so suddenly, i'm like what the hell.

Cheers

[TMAN]

Total outsider here, but goose20 you are in the wrong..

A few things that you should of done differently due to your situation, as BTC was rising and you knew you could not keep up with the payments you should of made full disclosure to the lender explaining that you had cashed out the BTC to USD and would therefore be purchasing BTC to honor the debt. Then you should of asked to re negotiate the terms, IE - if BTC is less than $X then you repay as normal if BTC goes above $Y then the loan will need to be switched to pair against USD, by not doing that and just rolling your debt over and only paying the VIG you were effectively gambling against a massive bull run. Not sating zazarb would have to do that, but I am sure he would prefer to have something back other than a load of empty air.. if you wanted a USD loan I do not understand why you didn't go to a bank?


Another option would of been to ask the lender to freeze interest as you were struggling to fulfill the loan, I cannot see this was requested either. zazarb is a lender but it is known he is a reasonable guy.. bottom line is you still owe him the full amount and he deserves full repayment, at this point you need to stop "hoping" btc goes down to $1K and start thinking that BTC will hit $100K and start acting accordingly. 

[goose20]

Total outsider here, but goose20 you are in the wrong..

A few things that you should of done differently due to your situation, as BTC was rising and you knew you could not keep up with the payments you should of made full disclosure to the lender explaining that you had cashed out the BTC to USD and would therefore be purchasing BTC to honor the debt. Then you should of asked to re negotiate the terms, IE - if BTC is less than $X then you repay as normal if BTC goes above $Y then the loan will need to be switched to pair against USD, by not doing that and just rolling your debt over and only paying the VIG you were effectively gambling against a massive bull run. Not sating zazarb would have to do that, but I am sure he would prefer to have something back other than a load of empty air.. if you wanted a USD loan I do not understand why you didn't go to a bank?


Another option would of been to ask the lender to freeze interest as you were struggling to fulfill the loan, I cannot see this was requested either. zazarb is a lender but it is known he is a reasonable guy.. bottom line is you still owe him the full amount and he deserves full repayment, at this point you need to stop "hoping" btc goes down to $1K and start thinking that BTC will hit $100K and start acting accordingly.  

Hi TMAN,

Thanks for contributing and for your advice as to what should have been done. Hindsight is a great thing afterall.

Any advice at all as to what you recommend to resolve this from this point going forward?

Cheers

[TMAN]

Total outsider here, but goose20 you are in the wrong..

A few things that you should of done differently due to your situation, as BTC was rising and you knew you could not keep up with the payments you should of made full disclosure to the lender explaining that you had cashed out the BTC to USD and would therefore be purchasing BTC to honor the debt. Then you should of asked to re negotiate the terms, IE - if BTC is less than $X then you repay as normal if BTC goes above $Y then the loan will need to be switched to pair against USD, by not doing that and just rolling your debt over and only paying the VIG you were effectively gambling against a massive bull run. Not sating zazarb would have to do that, but I am sure he would prefer to have something back other than a load of empty air.. if you wanted a USD loan I do not understand why you didn't go to a bank?


Another option would of been to ask the lender to freeze interest as you were struggling to fulfill the loan, I cannot see this was requested either. zazarb is a lender but it is known he is a reasonable guy.. bottom line is you still owe him the full amount and he deserves full repayment, at this point you need to stop "hoping" btc goes down to $1K and start thinking that BTC will hit $100K and start acting accordingly.  

Hi TMAN,

Thanks for contributing and for your advice as to what should have been done. Hindsight is a great thing afterall.

Any advice at all as to what you recommend to resolve this from this point going forward?

Cheers

hands on knees - say you are sorry and ask the man what options are available.. he may be willing to peg against USD now he may not, but seeing as you are here and wanting to sort it out I think he may listen to some reasonable requests.

1st of all though you do need to apologize and get his buy in of how to resolve it fella.

[goose20]

Total outsider here, but goose20 you are in the wrong..

A few things that you should of done differently due to your situation, as BTC was rising and you knew you could not keep up with the payments you should of made full disclosure to the lender explaining that you had cashed out the BTC to USD and would therefore be purchasing BTC to honor the debt. Then you should of asked to re negotiate the terms, IE - if BTC is less than $X then you repay as normal if BTC goes above $Y then the loan will need to be switched to pair against USD, by not doing that and just rolling your debt over and only paying the VIG you were effectively gambling against a massive bull run. Not sating zazarb would have to do that, but I am sure he would prefer to have something back other than a load of empty air.. if you wanted a USD loan I do not understand why you didn't go to a bank?


Another option would of been to ask the lender to freeze interest as you were struggling to fulfill the loan, I cannot see this was requested either. zazarb is a lender but it is known he is a reasonable guy.. bottom line is you still owe him the full amount and he deserves full repayment, at this point you need to stop "hoping" btc goes down to $1K and start thinking that BTC will hit $100K and start acting accordingly.  

Hi TMAN,

Thanks for contributing and for your advice as to what should have been done. Hindsight is a great thing afterall.

Any advice at all as to what you recommend to resolve this from this point going forward?

Cheers

hands on knees - say you are sorry and ask the man what options are available.. he may be willing to peg against USD now he may not, but seeing as you are here and wanting to sort it out I think he may listen to some reasonable requests.

1st of all though you do need to apologize and get his buy in of how to resolve it fella.

Thanks TMAN.

[zazarb]

snip--

The only positive thing that happened here, You recognized that you owe money, via pm you tried to prove otherwise.

No i have not. It the PM you are referring to, i was placing this matter in context overall, just like i have stated in posts in this thread. I have always acknowledged i have not paid the debt in full in btc terms. But from a fiat perspective, and from an overall dealings perspective between us, up to 20 deals, you are in front and this is 1 deal in many that hasn't been resolved. You've had many months to offer a solution to the on-going and ever-increasing repayments i have had to make, that's May 2017 to Feb 2018, but nothing this whole time. Its as if you said to yourself 'well since he is making part payments, I'll just let him struggle and continue to pay'. But as soon as i say i cant afford it at the moment due to x and y - you immediately open a scam accusation.

From my perspective that's really shitty man. I communicated with you the whole time how stressed i was about the repayments owed, yet i continued making them for months. Then you just do this to me.
You are in the business of lending. And because no borrower can be perfect all the time, you protect yourself by charging interest. And you've continued to charge me interest to this day.
I understand this is frustrating for you as it is for me. But the way you turned so suddenly, i'm like what the hell.

Cheers

#then I was wrong, because I had better opinions about you.
#what terms do you expect,  if our agreements signed specifically for such!
# this thread about this one deal , and stop to finally related it to fiat or previous deals.
# "immediately"- I wait since Nov. until Feb., and maybe yourself have always acknowledged that  not paid me, but I do not see it in your answer(after 2.5 months of silence):

snip-

hello, already passed januar, but not hear anything from you side...

Hi Zazarb,

Come on mate, what do you expect me to do - the price of BTC is higher than before.

What would you do in my situation? What is actually fair here? You charged a high interest rate in your business for the risk you took. You've made a lot of btc from it. My situation is only because the price of btc skyrocketed not because i choose it. I did a lot of business with you with paypal and btc and always paid you good interest.

And you know and can see that everything has changed with high price of btc, you've been on the forum a long time like i have - Mt Gox trustee only paying out $$ value at time of debt not btc amount; here on forum people denominating things in $$'s not btc anymore; primedice doing giveaways in $$'s not btc; people asking for $$ loans not btc loans, and a whole lot more etc etc.

You said you offered your service not as a business but as a service to the community - then you should be happy you made btc from me and are not behind.
- The last loan i borrowed was worth $750, and I've repaid $1830 (that's 250%).
- From the last 10 loans i did with you, you gave me a total of 5.745BTC and I've repaid a total of 5.930BTC (see table below) -> an extra 0.185BTC in total = You are in front with my business. Not to mention even earlier loans we've done together. I've done my best with you and you know i always was honest and communicated with you.

   Btc Loaned   Btc Repaid
Apr-17   0.620   0.455
Mar-17   0.650   0.690
Feb-17   0.650   0.680
Jan-17   0.700   0.730
Dec-16   0.550   0.585
Nov-16   0.575   0.615
Oct-16   0.565   0.600
Sep-16   0.560   0.600
Aug-16   0.475   0.515
Jul-16   0.400   0.460
            5.745   5.930
      
   Btc Interest Paid   +0.185BTC
   % Interest                     3.2%
      

You are in front here. Be a fair person and look at it as good karma for you. I have repaid more than i borrowed from you. I cannot pay any more.

Good luck old friend.
Cheers
Goose20

P.S.
We can talking about freezing  interest(or even reducing) but first you need repaid principle amount what you borrowed.

[magneto]

I agree with TMAN completely. Ask zazarb to freeze interest, and lock the loan in USD or AUD, if you're from Australia and is worried about any forex frisks.

Zazarb agreed to even reducing interest, at this point. I think that he would be more than happy for you to repay a lesser amount, even though the contract in the beginning may state otherwise. Obviously you'll have to work it out with him.

At least by doing this you have a target to work towards... Otherwise if BTC continues its way up you'll just have to keep paying more and more. But next time fix the loan in USD first, take this as a lesson. I know you're not the kind to want to go through all this, but this is your mistake. Do better next time and everything would be fine...

[jonsi]

I have read the whole thread and this is my opinion on this:

goose20 defense is based on the fact that he is entitled to default the loan because BTC has increased in value from the time that he had taken the loan:

...

You state “You are talking about things (BTC skyrocketing) that were not in the original agreement. This has no bearing on the loan repayment.” Well of course it does. BTC went up 10x – 20x so I could no longer afford the payments – that definitely has a bearing.

...

This position has no real world backup.

The fact is that goose20 took the loan in BTC and now is in default. A few years ago, the banks were giving loans in Swiss Francs for everything ranging from personal loans to mortgage loans (you can search on the web to see in which country). In the meantime, the Swiss Franc had increased in value so the rate payments had become extremely large in the national currency compared to when the loan was granted. People had complained to the government, and all the government could do in order to help was to talk with the banks to grant some extensions and this was it. Many people had lost their houses and are still in debt.

In conclusion, my point of view is that goose20 defense it's just an absurder excuse in order to default the loan: in his own words, it says that the increase of BTC value has a bearing on the loan repayment, when in fact it doesn't.

zazarb is entitled to the loan repayment as agreed in the original terms, if the loan was in BTC, then he is entitled to receive the payment in BTC also, if it doesn't specify otherwise in the original terms.

I really think that goose20 wasn't trying to scam, but his approach on this (with inventing excuses) doesn't show a trustworthy behaviour, so, for now, I will leave negative feedback to goose20 in order to warn others until this situation is resolved.

[Timelord2067]

Time for Goose20 to man up and repay Zazarb what he owes.