[HAVELOCK] CasinoBitco.in (CBTC) IPO Official Thread

[TheSwede75]

And no StarCraft.
- a Korean

I have to say that even though you prob consider this sort of a 'ironic post' I personally think that E-game betting is something that is 100% a great idea. Maybe Starcraft and League of Legends.

[TheSwede75]

Based on what I can tell, then, you have:

41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC

That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?

So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.

If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...

@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.

Valuing seed finance based on current profits is almost useless in my opinion. If you want 'crazy valuation' take a look at the Justdice.com IPO 

[casinobitcoin]

Based on what I can tell, then, you have:

41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC

That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?

So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.

If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...

@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.

Ranlo - I think we're on the same page! Lot's of factors to consider.

Simply put, our goal is to be far and away #1 in non-dice bitcoin gaming - and we appear to be on the growth trajectory to reach that. By my estimates, we have roughly close to  a 5% chunk of that market now, and growing.

Our shareholder's support & input will be a huge part of us getting there.

[TheSwede75]

I have to say that even though you prob consider this sort of a 'ironic post' I personally think that E-game betting is something that is 100% a great idea. Maybe Starcraft and League of Legends.

Not ironic at all - except I'm not Korean. It's a whole new underexplored area. And gamers have to spend the bitcoins they mined with their GPUs

I agree. HUGE SC2 and Broodwar fan here.

[ranlo]

Based on what I can tell, then, you have:

41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC

That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?

So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.

If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...

@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.

Valuing seed finance based on current profits is almost useless in my opinion. If you want 'crazy valuation' take a look at the Justdice.com IPO  

Honestly, the vast majority of IPO's in the crypto scene are directly marketed towards people who don't know any better and assume everything is going to make a profit. I won't go into too many details but I know for a fact a few have overpriced knowing they were overpricing, solely because they knew people were stupid enough to buy into it anyways. One has even agreed with me that most people here have no business investing, but as long as they are you can get rich off them, XD.

[casinobitcoin]

I have to say that even though you prob consider this sort of a 'ironic post' I personally think that E-game betting is something that is 100% a great idea. Maybe Starcraft and League of Legends.

Not ironic at all - except I'm not Korean. It's a whole new underexplored area. And gamers have to spend the bitcoins they mined with their GPUs

I agree. HUGE SC2 and Broodwar fan here.

As an ex-SC player, I'm in. What other e-sports are big?

[ranlo]

Based on what I can tell, then, you have:

41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC

That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?

So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.

If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...

@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.

Ranlo - I think we're on the same page! Lot's of factors to consider.

Simply put, our goal is to be far and away #1 in non-dice bitcoin gaming - and we appear to be on the growth trajectory to reach that. By my estimates, we have roughly close to  a 5% chunk of that market now, and growing.

Our shareholder's support & input will be a huge part of us getting there.

Yeah, I definitely get where you're coming from. The downside is that the market can have massive swings up or down at any point. It's more of a long-term investment than anything. On the other hand, people always gamble, and ironically as the economy gets worse people gamble more and more.

So are the shares based on their part of the total profit each month, or is there part being taken out of that each month? Best breakdown would be like this if possible:

Let's say there is one share someone owns and their fragment of the profit was 1 BTC. Would their dividend be the entire BTC, or how would it break down?

[xchrisxsays]

Are you, or are you planning to be a registered company? In which jurisdiction?
Where do you live? Is it legal to operate gambling site in your country?

The company is registered as a legal entity in Panama.
All servers run offshore in Ireland and Hong Kong.

Is anyone familiar with US law related to gambling/betting? I thought that the location of the servers is irrelevant if you live in USA (you do) and/or serving US customers.
What is the worst case scenario here - could US police (or regulator or whoever) confiscate the BTC? What is your plan for such legal complications?

I played a lot of online poker when it was still legal in the U.S. and even though the servers were in Ireland or some such place for Full Tilt Poker, they still got the government killswitch for U.S.-based participants. I think this will be a genuine concern in the future

[casinobitco]

Great question, and totally expected. We have retained legal counsil on this exact question early on in the process.

The absolute worst-case scenario (as mentioned in the Prospectus) is that we could be served by the US DOJ with a cease and deist notification. We have 2 legal recourses if that scenario were to occur:
1) Disable traffic for US Customers
2) Fight the order

While we view this scenario as a very unlikely scenario giving the US Government stance on Bitcoin, option #2 is absolutely costly, but not out of question if the timing is right. If we went with Option 1 - it would cut off roughly 69% of our current traffic to the site as of today (we are however, planning on large-scale marketing campaigns for non-US customers after this IPO).

All that said, NO - the US government (nor police) could not confiscate our Bitcoins as we are not under US jurisdiction.  

I hope that helps clarify the risk, as well as our stance.

Are you, or are you planning to be a registered company? In which jurisdiction?
Where do you live? Is it legal to operate gambling site in your country?

The company is registered as a legal entity in Panama.
All servers run offshore in Ireland and Hong Kong.

Is anyone familiar with US law related to gambling/betting? I thought that the location of the servers is irrelevant if you live in USA (you do) and/or serving US customers.
What is the worst case scenario here - could US police (or regulator or whoever) confiscate the BTC? What is your plan for such legal complications?

[casinobitcoin]

Based on what I can tell, then, you have:

41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC

That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?

So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.

If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...

@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.

Ranlo - I think we're on the same page! Lot's of factors to consider.

Simply put, our goal is to be far and away #1 in non-dice bitcoin gaming - and we appear to be on the growth trajectory to reach that. By my estimates, we have roughly close to  a 5% chunk of that market now, and growing.

Our shareholder's support & input will be a huge part of us getting there.

Yeah, I definitely get where you're coming from. The downside is that the market can have massive swings up or down at any point. It's more of a long-term investment than anything. On the other hand, people always gamble, and ironically as the economy gets worse people gamble more and more.

So are the shares based on their part of the total profit each month, or is there part being taken out of that each month? Best breakdown would be like this if possible:

Let's say there is one share someone owns and their fragment of the profit was 1 BTC. Would their dividend be the entire BTC, or how would it break down?

Ranlo - I agree - this is one reason we intend to focus on competitive advantages and serve our own "niche", whenever possible. We're targeting roughly 75% dividend / 25% reinvestment to start - this will be well defined with each dividend for share holders.

[ranlo]

Based on what I can tell, then, you have:

41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC

That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?

So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.

If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...

@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.

Ranlo - I think we're on the same page! Lot's of factors to consider.

Simply put, our goal is to be far and away #1 in non-dice bitcoin gaming - and we appear to be on the growth trajectory to reach that. By my estimates, we have roughly close to  a 5% chunk of that market now, and growing.

Our shareholder's support & input will be a huge part of us getting there.

Yeah, I definitely get where you're coming from. The downside is that the market can have massive swings up or down at any point. It's more of a long-term investment than anything. On the other hand, people always gamble, and ironically as the economy gets worse people gamble more and more.

So are the shares based on their part of the total profit each month, or is there part being taken out of that each month? Best breakdown would be like this if possible:

Let's say there is one share someone owns and their fragment of the profit was 1 BTC. Would their dividend be the entire BTC, or how would it break down?

Ranlo - I agree - this is one reason we intend to focus on competitive advantages and serve our own "niche", whenever possible. We're targeting roughly 75% dividend / 25% reinvestment to start - this will be well defined with each dividend for share holders.

Is there any "management fee?" And you will be proactively marketing with part of the 25%, correct?

[casinobitcoin]

No management fee - and, that figure is after all expenses - that roughly 25% would be added to the general reserves or "cash" as retained earnings, and would belong shared to all shareholders.

[casinobitcoin]

Ranlo:

P&L - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmSWZWkGJ1V3dDl0STVudkZBUm1fRTlXMUFzZ3dkUXc&usp=sharing

Still a work in progress so suggestions welcome.

At what point are you going to start paying yourselves or will you just be maintaining owners equity?

Uv,

For the foreseable future, we don't plan on taking any salary/compensation, just working for the equity we own!

[ranlo]

Thanks for the answers, CBC! That covers everything I can think of right now, and everything looks good. Definitely going to put some thought into jumping in on this, .

[casinobitcoin]

Thanks for the answers, CBC! That covers everything I can think of right now, and everything looks good. Definitely going to put some thought into jumping in on this, .

You got it, Ranlo!

No saying how fast - but if it's anything like DealCo.in this week - shares could go quick! I'll have my coins ready (myself and others involved will be adding to our equity on IPO - will be nice to have "liquid" shares)

[alexius89]

that will be an interesting IPO Phase!!

[zy02264]

Finally its on. Cheers!

[casinobitco]

Finally its on. Cheers!

Absolutely! We're very excited as well - can't stress how great it's been working with the team over at Havelock, A+.

[MaxSan]

Why is it listed in the spec as being priced at 0.00018 but on offer on 0.0002 on havelock ?

[casinobitco]

Why is it listed in the spec as being priced at 0.00018 but on offer on 0.0002 on havelock ?

We reached out to Havelock yesterday to get this corrected, it should be 0.00018.