Bitcoin Forum
December 11, 2016, 12:04:55 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: if( Freedom_of_Speech == true ) then Freedom_of_Money = true;  (Read 1560 times)
em3rgentOrdr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434


youtube.com/ericfontainejazz now accepts bitcoin


View Profile WWW
January 20, 2011, 10:32:23 AM
 #1

I just realized this today: Thanks to bitcoin, Freedom of Speech implies Freedom of Money.  First off, I'm assuming that freedom of speech includes the ability for anyone to send any packet to anyone else on the internet (and also implied is that you own an internet-connected computing device).  If you have this ability unrestricted, then you can mine and trade bitcoin.  So you have Freedom of Money, or the ability to exchange entities of value without interference from 3rd parties.

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
1481457895
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481457895

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481457895
Reply with quote  #2

1481457895
Report to moderator
1481457895
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481457895

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481457895
Reply with quote  #2

1481457895
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481457895
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481457895

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481457895
Reply with quote  #2

1481457895
Report to moderator
FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
January 20, 2011, 11:18:20 AM
 #2

money = freedom
debt = slavery

as simple as that.

Weird, they taught me in school:

money = debt
freedom = slavery

 Tongue

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
davout
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358


1davout


View Profile WWW
January 20, 2011, 11:19:53 AM
 #3

I just realized this today: Thanks to bitcoin, Freedom of Speech implies Freedom of Money.  First off, I'm assuming that freedom of speech includes the ability for anyone to send any packet to anyone else on the internet (and also implied is that you own an internet-connected computing device).  If you have this ability unrestricted, then you can mine and trade bitcoin.  So you have Freedom of Money, or the ability to exchange entities of value without interference from 3rd parties.

Assuming money === bitcoin which is wrong

mpkomara
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 180



View Profile
January 20, 2011, 11:37:22 AM
 #4

Big assumption here:  "assuming that freedom of speech includes the ability for anyone to send any packet to anyone else on the internet....".
FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
January 20, 2011, 11:41:12 AM
 #5

Big assumption here:  "assuming that freedom of speech includes the ability for anyone to send any packet to anyone else on the internet....".

I think he means from here onwards, not in the past. And I think I agree.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
davout
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358


1davout


View Profile WWW
January 20, 2011, 11:42:18 AM
 #6

Big assumption here:  "assuming that freedom of speech includes the ability for anyone to send any packet to anyone else on the internet....".
It's not an assumption.
Freedom of speech == freedom to transmit information == freedom to spell out a packet on the phone, in person, in a newspaper.
Technical means are irrelevant

davout
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358


1davout


View Profile WWW
January 20, 2011, 11:58:55 AM
 #7

which nicely coincides with original meaning of French word mortgage, meaning "debt until death"
+1

FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
January 20, 2011, 12:06:54 PM
 #8

money = freedom
debt = slavery

as simple as that.

Weird, they taught me in school:

money = debt
freedom = slavery

 Tongue


Taught in school, ha... , you went to a wrong school my friend.  It's called indocrination, isn't it. We live in strange alogical world where money = debt (they say in school), which cannot be true, or better yet, this is not true money which are debt it is inflationary fiat thing they call money which is debt.

It is truly Orwellian trick calling debt - money, just like 'net neutrality' which is actually exact opposite of it's name and 'copyright' which is actually 'luck of right to copy' or 'patriot act' which is actually 'suppression of civil liberties act', the list goes on... Do not trust the names, trust your critical thinking!

On the other hand, when we understand that true money like sea shells, gold, bitcoins, commodities are not debt (liability) but asset (money), my equation  suddenly becomes true, indeed:

true non-inflationary money = freedom
debt = slavery

and than consequently:

mortgage = slavery for life

,which nicely coincides with original meaning of French word mortgage, meaning "debt until death"


I absolutely agree with you and not my so-called teachers.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
caveden
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1106



View Profile
January 20, 2011, 12:32:32 PM
 #9

Why are you saying that debt=slavery? Loans are just contracts.

18rZYyWcafwD86xvLrfuxWG5xEMMWUtVkL
caveden
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1106



View Profile
January 20, 2011, 01:16:39 PM
 #10

Slavery is an aggression. It's suppressing self-ownership.
How can debt be even compared to that? Not paying a debt that is an aggression (theft).

18rZYyWcafwD86xvLrfuxWG5xEMMWUtVkL
caveden
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1106



View Profile
January 20, 2011, 01:42:08 PM
 #11

Are you really suggesting that if you ask to borrow my money and I agree to lend, I'm enslaving you? And that if you run away with what is mine without ever paying back you're not robbing me, just liberating yourself?

I see no gray shade there, this is plain wrong... it would only be comparable to slavery if I had forced you to accept it somehow, but then it's not lending anymore, it's extortion or worse.

You might have issues with the current centralized banking system, as we all here have. But the act of lending is perfectly OK and voluntary, there's no slavery there. Actually, loans are something really fundamental for economic growth, it's through them that savers feed investors.

18rZYyWcafwD86xvLrfuxWG5xEMMWUtVkL
caveden
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1106



View Profile
January 20, 2011, 01:51:02 PM
 #12

Or maybe you're just mixing normal debt with state debt. State debt can be viewed as slavery since they force others to pay it. But then, isn't just the debt, absolutely everything the state does implies in slavery... (maybe servitude is a better word...)

18rZYyWcafwD86xvLrfuxWG5xEMMWUtVkL
em3rgentOrdr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434


youtube.com/ericfontainejazz now accepts bitcoin


View Profile WWW
January 20, 2011, 07:17:54 PM
 #13

Big assumption here:  "assuming that freedom of speech includes the ability for anyone to send any packet to anyone else on the internet....".

I think he means from here onwards, not in the past. And I think I agree.

Thank you FreeMoney, that is what I mean.  In the past, freedom of speech may have included freedom to publish or print any writings unencumbered without censorship or limitation, provided you can to pay for the paper, ink, printing, and postage.  With telephones, this of course includes the ability to call anyone provided you have a phone and pay the phone bill.  So Freedom of Speech in the internet age, by extension, includes the ability for anyone to send any packet to anyone else on the internet unencumbered without censorship or limitation, provided that you of course own a computer and pay for internet connection.

As FreeMoney's signature quote used to say: "Free as in Freedom, not Free Beer..."

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!