sMerit questions

[DannyHamilton]

I've got two questions related to sMerits....


1. Is it possible to determine how many total sMerits are available on the forum at any given time (or on a given day)? Each month when the Merit Sources get their new sMerits there is a sudden increase in available sMerits.  Then as they get sent, and re-sent, and re-sent the forum total diminishes until there are nearly none left (or at least significantly less than at the beginning of the month), and we all have to wait for the sources to get some more.  I'm just curious if that quantity information is available, or if perhaps Theymos might publish a chart or CSV with something like daily weekly, or monthly totals.


2. When do the sources get more sMerits?  I know they get them "monthly", but is it on the first day of each calendar month? Every 4 weeks on Sunday? Every 30 days? Whenever Theymos gets around to hitting the "send source merits button"?

[Jet Cash]

Do merit sources get sMerit or merit points. The idea of sMerit is that good posters should be able to evaluate posts, and award sMerit to worthy ( in their opinion ) posts. That should be a continuing ( but diminishing ) flow. The danger in decaying unawarded sMerit is that it can push members into awarding sMerit to posts that they feel are mediocre, or in dumping them onto historic posts. Neither of those choices is beneficial to the forum in my opinion. Also, it can take quite a bit of time to hunt around looking for quality posts, and I would prefer to wait until a reasonable post arrives in a thread that interests me before I give out points.

[DannyHamilton]

Do merit sources get sMerit or merit points.

It's my understanding that they get sMerit.  They have to earn Merit the same as everyone else, but they receive a certain about of sMerit that they can use to award others with Merit (and thereby award them with sMerit as well).

The danger in decaying unawarded sMerit is that it can push members into awarding sMerit to posts that they feel are mediocre, or in dumping them onto historic posts. Neither of those choices is beneficial to the forum in my opinion.

Perhaps, but if a source is being given more sMerit than they are using, then that additional sMerit is effectively unnecessary (remember they are just going to receive even more after 30 days).  Building up a backlog of sMerit means that Theymos is giving that source more sMerits than they can find places to use it.  Might as well give them a bit less next time so they don't feel so pressured to find places to dump it.

My question has nothing to do with decaying Earned Merit or Earned sMerits. I'm only asking about Sources, and the diminishing amount of sMerit forum-wide as each time it is sent the quantity received is cut in half.

[Jet Cash]

Perhaps, but if a source is being given more sMerit than they are using, then that additional sMerit is effectively unnecessary (remember they are just going to receive even more after 30 days).  Building up a backlog of sMerit means that Theymos is giving that source more sMerits than they can find places to use it.  Might as well give them a bit less next time so they don't feel so pressured to find places to dump it.

Or the moderators could clean up the boards so that meritable posts can be seen and rewarded.

One thing to think about is that if a good post isn't rewarded because it has sunk into the swamp, then visitors to BitcoinTalk will probably not see it either. This means that the perceived value of the forum is diminished, and this can lead to a potential reduction in advertising revenue from the forum's advertising.

[DannyHamilton]

Or the moderators could clean up the boards so that meritable posts can be seen and rewarded.

They certainly try.  However, it is very difficult to keep up with the rate at which trash enters the boards.  This merit system is intended to help reduce the level of trash over time (or at least slow down its growth) so that the moderators can keep up better.

One thing to think about is that if a good post isn't rewarded because it has sunk into the swamp, then visitors to BitcoinTalk will probably not see it either. This means that the perceived value of the forum is diminished, and this can lead to a potential reduction in advertising revenue from the forum's advertising.

Unless the advertisers desire to advertise to the shitposters.

[Jet Cash]

They certainly try.  However, it is very difficult to keep up with the rate at which trash enters the boards.  This merit system is intended to help reduce the level of trash over time (or at least slow down its growth) so that the moderators can keep up better.

There is an easy solution. Restrict new members to the beginners board until they make a number of posts ( maybe 10)

[Vod]

2. When do the sources get more sMerits?  I know they get them "monthly", but is it on the first day of each calendar month? Every 4 weeks on Sunday? Every 30 days? Whenever Theymos gets around to hitting the "send source merits button"?

I would hope that sMerits are given on different dates to different people. 

[shushanika]

I've got two questions related to sMerits....

Here are my observations regarding this:

1) Since the admin had not disclosed the merit sources, I do not think he will share exact stats related to merits as well.

2) He already declared that he will add enough in local boards as well so there is nothing to worry.

3) You can get rough idea of merits being spend daily by checking stats here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats.

[Vod]

Merit given recently.  No way I can catch up to QuestionAuthority - how did he get so much sMerit?

738: QuestionAuthority
334: TMAN
303: Vod

[Lauda]

Merit given recently.  No way I can catch up to QuestionAuthority - how did he get so much sMerit?

738: QuestionAuthority
334: TMAN
303: Vod

Different sources have different amounts per month. I assume he got a very high amount (several hundred) + the initial sMerit he got for his rank.

[Jet Cash]

The more interesting question is - How did he find the posts to award so much merit?

[Vod]

The more interesting question is - How did he find the posts to award so much merit?

I don't know - I'm finding it fun. 

I'm reading more parts of the forum, and I like some of the comments I read, so I leave them merit.

Most are educational, providing useful information.  Others, I simply find funny or significant.  (I left a merit for Dank's last post).

[DannyHamilton]

I've got two questions related to sMerits....

Here are my observations regarding this:

1) Since the admin had not disclosed the merit sources, I do not think he will share exact stats related to merits as well.

He is already releasing various stats related to merits.  For example here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats

I'm just looking for another link that says:
Remaining sMerit

2) He already declared that he will add enough in local boards as well so there is nothing to worry.

I'm not worried. I'm curious. In particular, I'm curious about how quickly sMerits drain down.  On average across an entire forum, does it tend to get spent as quickly as possible? Does it tend to trickle down slowly throughout the community? Is there a steady and predictable decline, or are the sudden unexplained surges with long stretches of inactivity? Something else entirely?  If I graph remaining sMerits over time, what does the graph look like?

3) You can get rough idea of merits being spend daily by checking stats here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats.

Right. More specifically, here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=recent

So, if Theymos isn't going to post the statistics that I'm asking about, then I may decide to put to gether a quick cron job that pulls the data from that link daily and stores the counts in a database.  That way I can generate my own chart.  However, if dozens of us are curious enough to do that, then Theymos may want to reduce the unnecessary automated traffic to that page by publishing one of his own.

[HabBear]

The more interesting question is - How did he find the posts to award so much merit?

Haha, great point! Perhaps we should question his authority.


To Danny's OP, I don't know when the sMerits are doled out each month to Merit Sources, but I did read that the total amount being distributed out monthly to the sources is 8,175 sMerit per month. (Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2897661.msg29810508#msg29810508)

Also, given that each merit spent creates 0.5 merit for the recipient, the amount of merit spent will eventually produce a nearly an equivalent amount of merit. See my summary below.

For a month, 57 authorized representatives are allocated 8,175 Smerit.  

So in your example...

• 8,175 merit spent creates 4,087.5 merit
• That 4,087.4 merit spent creates 2,043.75 merit
• That 2,043.75 merit spent creates 1,021.88 merit
• That 1,021.88 merit spent creates 510.94 merit
• That 510.94 merit spent creates 255.47 merit
• That 255.47 merit spent creates 127.73 merit
• That 127.73 merit spent creates 63.87 merit
• That 63.87 merit spent creates 31.93 merit
• That 31.93 merit spent creates 15.97 merit
• That 15.97 merit spent creates 7.98 merit
• That 7.98 merit spent creates 3.99 merit
• That 3.99 merit spent creates 2 merit
• And that 2 merit spent creates 1 merit

So of the original 8,175 merit spent, an additional 8,174 merit - 16,349 merit total created to be spent.

Checking the latest merit stats HERE there are 57 merit sources being given 11,970 sMerit every 30 days.

[DannyHamilton]

To Danny's OP, I don't know when the sMerits are doled out each month to Merit Sources, but I did read that the total amount being distributed out monthly to the sources is 8,175 sMerit per month.

I've read the same.  I've also read that number has increased a bit since it was announced.  Regardless, I'm looking more for the "when is it awarded" than the "how much is awarded".

Also, given that each merit spent creates 0.5 merit for the recipient, the amount of merit spent will eventually produce a nearly an equivalent amount of merit.

I'm aware of this.

See my summary below.

Your summary demonstrates what I mean in the OP when I say: "as they get sent, and re-sent, and re-sent the forum total diminishes until there are nearly none left (or at least significantly less than at the beginning of the month), and we all have to wait for the sources to get some more."

So of the original 8,175 merit spent, an additional 8,174 merit - 16,349 merit total created to be spent.

It will depend a bit on how it is distributed, since odd amounts of merit awarded result in a bit less than half as much sMerit.

For example, imagine that the 8,175 merit is sent as 1 merit per recipient to 8,175 different recipients.  The result is no more merit awarded at all by anyone to anyone until the merit sources get their next allotment.  The reality is somewhere between this extreme and the one you presented.

Checking the latest merit stats HERE there are 57 merit sources being given 11,970 sMerit every 30 days.

Correct.  That doesn't tell us anything about how much of that sMerit has been sent, or how much new sMerit was the result of being awarded Merit, or what is the current total amount of sMerit remaining available to be sent.

This post has managed to restate things that have already been discussed in this thread, but like all the posts in this thread, doesn't accomplish answering ANY of my original questions.

There are now 15 posts in this thread, 14 of which are either off-topic for this thread or make no effort to do anything more than re-state what is already available.  I was hoping for a response from Theymos (or someone who has actually discussed either of these things with Theymos).  Perhaps I should have just sent him a PM.