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Author Topic: What happened to the huge walls at 14.00 and 14.10?  (Read 3798 times)
Bit_Happy
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July 15, 2011, 03:11:16 AM
 #1

I was away for several hours; volume is low but the huge walls (total well over 10,000 BTC) are gone.
Does anyone know if the orders seemed to be cancelled or did they show up as actual trades (ie. most of today's volume)?

What happened to the huge walls at 14.00 and 14.10?
Thanks

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aithran
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July 15, 2011, 05:21:02 PM
 #2

I think someone just moved them. Trying to adjust where the market is going.

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AyeYo
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July 15, 2011, 05:46:05 PM
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Market depth means nothing.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
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July 15, 2011, 07:08:41 PM
 #4

Market depth means nothing.

How very Tao. Also, incorrect.

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July 15, 2011, 07:12:37 PM
 #5

Market depth means nothing.

How very Tao. Also, incorrect.


Explain to me, oh wise one, what use market depth is when hidden orders are allowed, ice berg orders are allowed, and people are actively manipulating the market with false orders.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
rizzn
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July 15, 2011, 07:21:19 PM
 #6

Market depth means nothing.

How very Tao. Also, incorrect.

Explain to me, oh wise one, what use market depth is when hidden orders are allowed, ice berg orders are allowed, and people are actively manipulating the market with false orders.

There's a world of difference between "difficult to decipher" and "meaningless."

Also, the onus is sort of on you to support your assertion. Myself and anyone else here can explain to you how to derive value from the market depth charts (if they have experience in trading). You are the one telling the rest of us we're wrong with no supporting facts.

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July 15, 2011, 07:46:21 PM
 #7

Market depth means nothing.

How very Tao. Also, incorrect.

Explain to me, oh wise one, what use market depth is when hidden orders are allowed, ice berg orders are allowed, and people are actively manipulating the market with false orders.

There's a world of difference between "difficult to decipher" and "meaningless."

Also, the onus is sort of on you to support your assertion. Myself and anyone else here can explain to you how to derive value from the market depth charts (if they have experience in trading). You are the one telling the rest of us we're wrong with no supporting facts.


Well let's see...



#1. You have no idea market depth data is even true, not just for the already mentioned reasons, but because there's not a reason in the world to trust that the exchanges are sending your correct data.

#2. The market volume is very thin, the liquidity is terrible. That means you get little to no information from the market dept you do see, and then there's all the stuff you don't see, which are the actual orders moving the market.

#3. Take a quick look around the board.  Look at all the threads complaining about marekt dept manipulation, weird movement running contrary to market depth, constant huge order cancelation, etc.



And just as an FYI, experienced retail traders don't trade market depth because they know it doesn't mean shit because it's too easily manipulated.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
rizzn
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July 15, 2011, 08:09:29 PM
 #8

There's a world of difference between "difficult to decipher" and "meaningless."

Also, the onus is sort of on you to support your assertion. Myself and anyone else here can explain to you how to derive value from the market depth charts (if they have experience in trading). You are the one telling the rest of us we're wrong with no supporting facts.

Well let's see...

#1. You have no idea market depth data is even true, not just for the already mentioned reasons, but because there's not a reason in the world to trust that the exchanges are sending your correct data.

#2. The market volume is very thin, the liquidity is terrible. That means you get little to no information from the market dept you do see, and then there's all the stuff you don't see, which are the actual orders moving the market.

#3. Take a quick look around the board.  Look at all the threads complaining about marekt dept manipulation, weird movement running contrary to market depth, constant huge order cancelation, etc.

And just as an FYI, experienced retail traders don't trade market depth because they know it doesn't mean shit because it's too easily manipulated.

Again, you haven't explained why it's meaningless. Spreading FUD, which is what your first and third point are, isn't exactly what I'd call factual.

I never said I traded solely on market depth - and I don't think anyone else does either. Depth is just another data point, and a useful one at that when planning your next moves (and particularly useful for automated trading).

Your assertion that market volume is thin isn't exactly a factual statement - more of an opinion. Thin as compared to what? Other BTC markets? I beg to differ. Thin as compared to any other currency market that's existed for longer than a few months. Yes. But then hey, this market's only been really active for a few months, and certainly hasn't been traded on for 100's years like the ones you're likely comparing it to.

It's a nascent market, and one that I've been watching obsessively since I've been developing toolsets to assist in trading, and while I've seen evidence of market-making (and even market-making bots), I wouldn't call that market manipulation, which implies something much more insidious or fraudulent.

Also, you might want to check your facts a bit - the dark pool trading has been taken offline since MTgox came back from the hack attack.

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July 15, 2011, 08:18:36 PM
 #9

Also, you might want to check your facts a bit - the dark pool trading has been taken offline since MTgox came back from the hack attack.

At least that's what they've said, and you have no idea whether that's true or not, just like you have no idea whether the data is real or not.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
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July 15, 2011, 08:23:39 PM
 #10

Also, you might want to check your facts a bit - the dark pool trading has been taken offline since MTgox came back from the hack attack.

At least that's what they've said, and you have no idea whether that's true or not, just like you have no idea whether the data is real or not.

Look - it doesn't take a genius to figure out if it's disabled or not.  Can you do it on the site or with the API? If the answer is no, then there you go.

Is this really the basis for your arguments? Because I'm having trouble believing you'd believe so ardently in something so easily disprovable.

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Bit_Happy
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July 15, 2011, 08:35:38 PM
 #11

I was away for several hours; volume is low but the huge walls (total well over 10,000 BTC) are gone.
Does anyone know if the orders seemed to be cancelled or did they show up as actual trades (ie. most of today's volume)?

What happened to the huge walls at 14.00 and 14.10?
Thanks

The huge walls are back now bigger than ever, and they do matter, IMO, as an indication of gross BTC over-supply medium-term.
The chance of hidden buy orders is nice, but we seem to have hungry sellers with massive loads of BTC to sell now.

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rizzn
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July 15, 2011, 10:08:22 PM
 #12

I was away for several hours; volume is low but the huge walls (total well over 10,000 BTC) are gone.
Does anyone know if the orders seemed to be cancelled or did they show up as actual trades (ie. most of today's volume)?

What happened to the huge walls at 14.00 and 14.10?
Thanks

The huge walls are back now bigger than ever, and they do matter, IMO, as an indication of gross BTC over-supply medium-term.
The chance of hidden buy orders is nice, but we seem to have hungry sellers with massive loads of BTC to sell now.

To that end, we see what happens when the walls break down if you look at the activity around 21:20 UTC ... crazy volume.

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July 15, 2011, 10:34:56 PM
 #13

Don't get too carried away on the depth, it's how much that's changing hands that matters.

But......the depth does indicate something interesting, buyers and sellers *appear* to be giving each other the cold eye. Those with BTC are sticking to their guns as are the bidders, on the face of it, the argument on both sides seems to be that the value of BTC at this point in time is the difference between them.

Wait and watch....
Bit_Happy
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July 15, 2011, 11:02:25 PM
 #14

I was away for several hours; volume is low but the huge walls (total well over 10,000 BTC) are gone.
Does anyone know if the orders seemed to be cancelled or did they show up as actual trades (ie. most of today's volume)?

What happened to the huge walls at 14.00 and 14.10?
Thanks

The huge walls are back now bigger than ever, and they do matter, IMO, as an indication of gross BTC over-supply medium-term.
The chance of hidden buy orders is nice, but we seem to have hungry sellers with massive loads of BTC to sell now.

To that end, we see what happens when the walls break down if you look at the activity around 21:20 UTC ... crazy volume.

Hi,
I might look it up, ~ what price are you talking about?*
*...or in general, Yes those areas do cause huge volume spikes.

The specific HUGE orders I was talking about (2*5,000+ just above $14 and @14.05) have gone away again with out being touched by the market.

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July 15, 2011, 11:06:31 PM
 #15

Don't get too carried away on the depth, it's how much that's changing hands that matters.

But......the depth does indicate something interesting, buyers and sellers *appear* to be giving each other the cold eye. Those with BTC are sticking to their guns as are the bidders, on the face of it, the argument on both sides seems to be that the value of BTC at this point in time is the difference between them.

Wait and watch....

True so far... We did have an extended stand-off with almost no movement.

The sellers are also showing clear signs of getting impatient.
Recent daily lows = 13.90, 13.70, 13.5021 (in progress) == How soon will we break below 13.50?

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rizzn
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July 15, 2011, 11:13:07 PM
 #16

Don't get too carried away on the depth, it's how much that's changing hands that matters.

But......the depth does indicate something interesting, buyers and sellers *appear* to be giving each other the cold eye. Those with BTC are sticking to their guns as are the bidders, on the face of it, the argument on both sides seems to be that the value of BTC at this point in time is the difference between them.

Wait and watch....

True so far... We did have an extended stand-off with almost no movement.

The sellers are also showing clear signs of getting impatient.
Recent daily lows = 13.90, 13.70, 13.5021 (in progress) == How soon will we break below 13.50?

There were a couple sub-1000 walls today that were wiped out by large transactions. A 2k, and a couple of 1k buys.

I do think it'll be quite some time before we see the 7k wall break down. Once it does, the market'll look mighty ugly, in my opinion.

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Bit_Happy
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July 15, 2011, 11:39:45 PM
 #17

Don't get too carried away on the depth, it's how much that's changing hands that matters.

But......the depth does indicate something interesting, buyers and sellers *appear* to be giving each other the cold eye. Those with BTC are sticking to their guns as are the bidders, on the face of it, the argument on both sides seems to be that the value of BTC at this point in time is the difference between them.

Wait and watch....

True so far... We did have an extended stand-off with almost no movement.

The sellers are also showing clear signs of getting impatient.
Recent daily lows = 13.90, 13.70, 13.5021 (in progress) == How soon will we break below 13.50?

There were a couple sub-1000 walls today that were wiped out by large transactions. A 2k, and a couple of 1k buys.

I do think it'll be quite some time before we see the 7k wall break down. Once it does, the market'll look mighty ugly, in my opinion.

Yes, it will look even worse than now.
I'm ~80% certain there was a similar "support wall" (5K+ Maybe 7K or more) at $14.00 on the recent day we sold off down to $11 (the holiday weekend)
...and I'm ~95% certain it vanished shortly before being touched == Fake support.

Oh well, one of these days the market will move more then 40 cents.
A big rally would be fun, but probably starting from much lower levels.

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July 16, 2011, 01:14:34 AM
 #18

Look out below! Solidly down from 14 now.
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July 16, 2011, 05:03:35 AM
 #19

Look out below! Solidly down from 14 now.

...and stalled at ~13.59. The market does not currently make big moves like it used to, which is actually not a surprise.

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July 16, 2011, 05:18:29 AM
 #20

They are put up by sellers to hold the price so they can slowly sell off without affecting the price too quickly.

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