I ordered a Butterfly Rig. I wish I joined this forum a few day ago.

[dragonkid]

Hello all,

I am a Newbie from UK - If only I joined this forum a few days earlier. I just ordered a Butterfly Lab Rig a few days ago. Then I joined this forum today, and discovered that the delivery date for a Butterfly Lab Rig can take up to 12 months. I paid it using paypal and back by a Visa Debit card. How can I get a refund? Since it is only a few days and still within the time limit for Paypal refund dispute?

I have already file a claim via Paypal to Butterfly Lab. Should I also contact my Debit card company and ask if they can refund this? What other action can I take?

Please help.

Thanks

Dragonkid

[maxmint]

Maybe this could be helpful: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0;topicseen

[Magazine]

Your CC provider will generally tell you to deal with it via PayPal, but you can ask them I guess.

[chowder]

Good thing you used a reversible form of payment!

If Paypal/BFL doesn't want to issue a refund, call your bank and tell them you want to dispute a charge (chargeback).

[dragonkid]

Maybe this could be helpful: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0;topicseen

Good thing you used a reversible form of payment!

If Paypal/BFL doesn't want to issue a refund, call your bank and tell them you want to dispute a charge (chargeback).

Thank you for your replies. I have read the thread which you have kindly supplied to me. I will try and follow those actions, and hopefully I can get my refund soon.

Another question. If Butterfly Lab Rig is such a scam. What do other people use to mine their bitcoin? Using ASICMINER Erupter USB, or good old fashion GPU?

Thanks

Dragonkid

[Magazine]

Maybe this could be helpful: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0;topicseen

Thank you for your reply. I have read the thread which you have kindly supplied to me. I will try and follow those actions, and hopefully I can get my refund soon.

Another question. If Butterfly Lab Rig is such a scam. What do other people use to mine their bitcoin? Using ASICMINER Erupter USB, or good old fashion GPU?

Thanks

Dragonkid

Those ASIC USB will never ROI as in you will never get the money you spent on them back though mining.

GPU mining Bitcoin at this day and age will not ROI either.

[monbux]

Pretty sure your dispute will go in your favour if you provide everything paypal asks -

[dragonkid]

I just got this through Paypal:

From Seller – BF Labs Inc.08/09/2013 22:04 BST
Thank you for contacting Butterfly Labs. According to the terms you agreed to on checkout, all sales are final. Now that shipping of orders has begun, refunds will not be processed. Your order will be shipped per your position in the order queue. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

I told them that I am going to complaint to Paypal, that BFL failed to deliver, denied my refund request, and violated PayPal's Terms of Service for pre-order sales. If they don't refund my order!!

[Magazine]

I think they are saying since they are shipping those orders are not refundable due to them not actually being pre orders anymore.

I guess it's time to call VISA and charge back the payment, I guess PayPal won't be happy you're doing that tho.

[becoin]

I just got this through Paypal:

From Seller – BF Labs Inc.08/09/2013 22:04 BST
Thank you for contacting Butterfly Labs. According to the terms you agreed to on checkout, all sales are final. Now that shipping of orders has begun, refunds will not be processed. Your order will be shipped per your position in the order queue. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

I told them that I am going to complaint to Paypal, that BFL failed to deliver, denied my refund request, and violated PayPal's Terms of Service for pre-order sales. If they don't refund my order!!

A sale can be final only if you've got what you paid for. I can't believe there are still people ordering from BFL crooks. Where did you learn about them?

The Manual - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136615.0

[dragonkid]

I think they are saying since they are shipping those orders are not refundable due to them not actually being pre orders anymore.

I guess it's time to call VISA and charge back the payment, I guess PayPal won't be happy you're doing that tho.

Should I wait a few days and escalate to Paypal? Then contact Visa if Paypal fail? 

[becoin]

I think they are saying since they are shipping those orders are not refundable due to them not actually being pre orders anymore.

I guess it's time to call VISA and charge back the payment, I guess PayPal won't be happy you're doing that tho.

Should I wait a few days and escalate to Paypal? Then contact Visa if Paypal fail? 

Don't wait. Ask PayPal for a refund immediately. They know very well that BFL are crooks.

[Magazine]

Best way to deal with PayPal is phone them, sending them a e-mail and waiting for disputes to be handled online is painful to watch.

How much do BFL owe you OP.

[dragonkid]

Actually I got good news. After reading the advice from you about calling Visa for Charge Back. I called the Visa Fraud Team. They looked at my account and told me that unfortunately it is not fraud, because I put the payment detail myself. Then she said but the payment haven't actually gone through yet. So she gave me an advice, she said she can transfer me to another department and tell them to cancel my card, and re-issue me a new card numbers, that way no one can take money out of my account, since Paypal haven't took my money yet.

So I know Paypal will be piss off. But this is the quickest way and I guess I am lucky that the money actually never left my bank account yet. I think I am going to call Paypal now and let them know. 

[Magazine]

Actually I got good news. After reading the advice from you about calling Visa for Charge Back. I called the Visa Fraud Team. They looked at my account and told me that unfortunately it is not fraud, because I put the payment detail myself. Then she said but the payment haven't actually gone through yet. So she gave me an advice, she said she can transfer me to another department and tell them to cancel my card, and re-issue me a new card numbers, that way no one can take money out of my account, since Paypal haven't took my money yet.

So I know Paypal will be piss off. But this is the quickest way and I guess I am lucky that the money actually never left my bank account yet. I think I am going to call Paypal now and let them know. 

This will put your PayPal account in negative credit and they will try get their goons on to you and harass you with phone calls and letters.

You will have to say bye bye to PayPal if you do that, unless they charge back the money from BFL.

[dragonkid]

I tried to call Paypal. But their phone line is closed, so I need to call them again tomorrow to explain to them that I lost my card. And also tell them I want to them to resolve the BFL dispute before I give them a new card number. Once they have resolve it then, I will give them a new card number.

[umaOuma]

Butterfly Lab has either to ship in reasonable manner like 3 business days or refund money immediatelly. Seems as scam to try block your money and delay the shippment to their will.

[dragonkid]

Is KncMiner any better? I am thinking of getting their miner next. Are they also a scam?

[horsea]

are you seroius?

[dragonkid]

are you seroius?

I am serious, but I have learn my lesson so going to do more research first. Not like last time.