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cynical
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February 26, 2018, 02:30:07 PM
Merited by Jet Cash (1), DaftAjax (1)
 #21

They dont realise that their scamming is indiscriminate.
They dont realise that they could scam the last hope of someone who has put the little they have into crypto in the hope of a better future for themselves and/or their family.
They dont realise the damage they do goes virtually unseen to those unfortunate people.
They dont realise the talent they have can be better used to help themselves and others in a more humane and ethical way.
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February 27, 2018, 12:11:37 AM
Merited by paxmao (1)
 #22

I reckon at some point in time (not to far away) crypto becomes accepted. Mayb even more then fiat. In times like these when crypto isnt even at the surface yet u can hide and blend in. Appearing successfull even, cause u "made it" in crypto.
But imagine how that will be once there will be mainstream adoption.

People will be more aware that there were a lot of scams back in the days. It will be locked in the back of their heads.
That means u will be "scanned" every day by everybody. And when people talk about it ull have to hide... u will never be free again anymore. U will be the cockroach u truly are.

I can't help to wonder how many of them are bankster/state sponsored actors - people who are getting paid to bring disrepute to cryptos.

We need to set up an international non-profit organization that can be used to actively:

1. Educate people on how to spot and avoid becoming victims of scams,

2. trace and track down perpetrators

3. and make sure that justice is served!
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February 27, 2018, 02:43:21 PM
 #23

Though these scammers are not completely anonymous, they're just vague I par say. We really just lack information about them. Or to be frank, we lack skills to comprehend or realize that we are being scammed.

The process of it was by convincing people to believe in whatever they are doing, to be plain, they want you to trust them. Then there comes the deception, and you fall for the trap.

Although, you need real determination and patience in order for you to tell that these people are scammers, some research that is.

I think they are fully aware of the lives they are ruining when they do what they do, psychotic behavior.

Not really psycho behavior, they'll do anything just to benefit for themselves, in short selfishness. They only care about their own satisfactions and their needs.

They kinda resembles me of whales, but there are difference between cleverness and being smart.

I don't know I thought abnormal thinking fell under the category psychotic behavior.
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February 28, 2018, 07:24:09 AM
Merited by paxmao (1)
 #24

I can't help to wonder how many of them are bankster/state sponsored actors - people who are getting paid to bring disrepute to cryptos.

We need to set up an international non-profit organization that can be used to actively:

1. Educate people on how to spot and avoid becoming victims of scams,

2. trace and track down perpetrators

3. and make sure that justice is served!
I don't know about you mate, but you're being naive right now.

These kinds of people are just into the money, they don't care about anything else as long as their satisfactions are sustained.

International non-profit organization, nice name, but who would bother do that. Besides, if we say international, we also have to consider the consent of other countries and to be honest that's a very low chance. And so you think that they will give it a shot somehow, it would take a lot of time.

1. Its like training a hacker here or an investigator. I wonder who would be interested in that, considering that countries already take measures in those cases.

2. Again, people won't be as good as those people that are specialized to do this. Besides, it would take a lot of time. You're not going to find them that easy.

3. Talk about international laws, if we have one. It depends on the country to where they belonged to. If they committed a crime (which is scamming people), the authorities who have the power to arrest people whatever country they are in. Some agencies like, Interpol or FBI, they are specialized in these kinds of stuffs.
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February 28, 2018, 02:46:23 PM
 #25

I can't help to wonder how many of them are bankster/state sponsored actors - people who are getting paid to bring disrepute to cryptos.

We need to set up an international non-profit organization that can be used to actively:

1. Educate people on how to spot and avoid becoming victims of scams,

2. trace and track down perpetrators

3. and make sure that justice is served!
I don't know about you mate, but you're being naive right now.

These kinds of people are just into the money, they don't care about anything else as long as their satisfactions are sustained.

International non-profit organization, nice name, but who would bother do that. Besides, if we say international, we also have to consider the consent of other countries and to be honest that's a very low chance. And so you think that they will give it a shot somehow, it would take a lot of time.

1. Its like training a hacker here or an investigator. I wonder who would be interested in that, considering that countries already take measures in those cases.

2. Again, people won't be as good as those people that are specialized to do this. Besides, it would take a lot of time. You're not going to find them that easy.

3. Talk about international laws, if we have one. It depends on the country to where they belonged to. If they committed a crime (which is scamming people), the authorities who have the power to arrest people whatever country they are in. Some agencies like, Interpol or FBI, they are specialized in these kinds of stuffs.

I am not going to go into it at length here, but you assume and read a lot into my previous post that are simply not there.

1. " Its like training a hacker here or an investigator. I wonder who would be interested in that, considering that countries already take measures in those cases" - No, my response in regards to that specific point is about empowering ordinary people to be able to spot scams through education. Nothing more, nothing less.

2. "Again, people won't be as good as those people that are specialized to do this. Besides, it would take a lot of time. You're not going to find them that easy" - Nowhere did I indicate that people with special abilities and skills won't do the tracing and tracking down (or that it will be done by ordinary people).

3. "Talk about international laws, if we have one. It depends on the country to where they belonged to. If they committed a crime (which is scamming people), the authorities who have the power to arrest people whatever country they are in. Some agencies like, Interpol or FBI, they are specialized in these kinds of stuffs" - Yes, international law is a relative term and cooperation with agencies such as Interpol can not be excluded, but efforts to ensure justice is served will not be limited or stand on their efforts alone. The idea with the proposed organization is to create a private organization that is supported by membership contributions, but actual field work - beyond the work needed to educate the public at large - will be done by setting up special task force units that have the expertise required to trace and track-down scammers on a global basis. They could be seen as private investigators operating in a highly specialized area. And yes, the approach from country to country will most likely differ, but make no mistake - there are many ways to skin a cat, just as scammers are using many ways to defraud and steal.

I think you will be surprised how many people with the skills required would be willing to help out, including white hat hackers. This might sound naive, but it is certainly not an impossibility. Difficult? Yes. Impossible? No.

"These kinds of people are just into the money, they don't care about anything else as long as their satisfactions are sustained" - What are you saying? Just because they're into the money, they should not be brought to justice? I think not.
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February 28, 2018, 11:01:45 PM
 #26

It's easy to create a project, dream solution and search for information on the internet to create an experienced team. Scammer created a project, mobilized 20k-50k USD and then disappeared.
I know that the goal of the blockchain is to get rid of financial institutions and the law, but should they require legal registration projects to avoid fraud?
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March 01, 2018, 09:47:06 AM
 #27

I am not going to go into it at length here.

This is not pretty much a lengthy one huh.  Grin

1. No, my response in regards to that specific point is about empowering ordinary people to be able to spot scams through education. Nothing more, nothing less.

Even if that's the case, again education is not enough. We NEED deeper than education, that is consciousness - psychological approach. They have to realize whether if they're being deceived at that moment. Performing sales talks, even con arts.

2. Nowhere did I indicate that people with special abilities and skills won't do the tracing and tracking down (or that it will be done by ordinary people).

Ok. Why not just give support or suggest this to existing organizations that are by the way have the reputation and the people to get the job done.

3. Yes, international law is a relative term and cooperation with agencies such as Interpol can not be excluded, but efforts to ensure justice is served will not be limited or stand on their efforts alone. The idea with the proposed organization is to create a private organization that is supported by membership contributions, but actual field work - beyond the work needed to educate the public at large - will be done by setting up special task force units that have the expertise required to trace and track-down scammers on a global basis. They could be seen as private investigators operating in a highly specialized area. And yes, the approach from country to country will most likely differ, but make no mistake - there are many ways to skin a cat, just as scammers are using many ways to defraud and steal.

By ensuring justice you mean all of them, right? Well, I must admit your idea is not impossible to do and quite impressive (I mean that in a good way).
But I'm sure that one group belonged to a much larger group of people. An organization, a syndicate of some sort.

There are many things to really have to consider here. And to the fact that this is a private organization, for sure the government will not just sit still and approve of this instantly, they will be intrigue and to the point that this is in the global scale, not to mention that there are already agencies like this.

These special task force units will be questioned. This is also a political matter, what if they will consider you as a threat and not a help.

I think you will be surprised how many people with the skills required would be willing to help out, including white hat hackers.

I'm not surprise. I know, there are people that are willing to help. But you have to consider the boundaries.

What are you saying? Just because they're into the money, they should not be brought to justice? I think not.

Believe me, deception is a powerful skill. And they are bringing them to justice by those existing agencies or organization regarding the same matter. But its sad to tell that even white hat hackers are also considered to be brought to justice (not all of them, there are some cases).
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March 01, 2018, 10:23:30 AM
 #28

I don`t justify scammers, however they came to this activity not from a good life. Some of poor guys understand that they don`t have any power to change something in this world, so they start scamming people just to get some money. This is not good. That`s why I think crypto will change the world, We all need to redistribute worlds wealth between people on the Earth, so that everybody can have power to make this world a little bit better.
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March 01, 2018, 10:31:37 AM
 #29

They won't be caught maybe as you say but karma will come back for them, there is always a payback for every wrong you do for the society
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March 01, 2018, 12:58:11 PM
 #30

1. "Even if that's the case, again education is not enough. We NEED deeper than education, that is consciousness - psychological approach. They have to realize whether if they're being deceived at that moment. Performing sales talks, even con arts"

Education should be sufficient to teach people what methods are used against them and how to combat it, including the various methods of psychological warfare.

In short: Education itself is enough to bring a deeper understanding without getting dragged down with psychological BS predominantly based on subjective nonsense.

This is not to say that we shouldn't for one aim to have public opinion on our side, but there are honest ways to do it without having to fall back on subjective BS (screwing with the minds of people).

2. "Ok. Why not just give support or suggest this to existing organizations that are by the way have the reputation and the people to get the job done"

With "existing organizations," do you mean government agencies like INTERPOL and the FBI? If yes, like I've indicated above - the door will be left open for cooperation, but efforts to combat scammers will not be fully dependent on their efforts. Why? State agencies have shown that they only serve public interest to a certain extent (e.g. https://news.bitcoin.com/rogue-silk-road-agent-admits-to-stealing-bitcoins-seized-by-u-s-marshals/) - the very reason why cryptos were born. State agencies failed to protect us against criminal bankster scum and their lackeys.  

In terms of non-state players that share the vision to bring scammers to task, the same principal as above will apply, namely: "the door will be left open for cooperation, but efforts to combat scammers will not be fully dependent on their efforts."

3. "By ensuring justice you mean all of them, right? Well, I must admit your idea is not impossible to do and quite impressive (I mean that in a good way).
But I'm sure that one group belonged to a much larger group of people. An organization, a syndicate of some sort.

There are many things to really have to consider here. And to the fact that this is a private organization, for sure the government will not just sit still and approve of this instantly, they will be intrigue and to the point that this is in the global scale, not to mention that there are already agencies like this.

These special task force units will be questioned. This is also a political matter, what if they will consider you as a threat and not a help"


I am not 100% sure what you mean with: "By ensuring justice you mean all of them, right?"

And yes, criminal syndicates and groups are definitely involved. This doesn't mean that those who wish to fight these criminal syndicates and/or groups can't pool resources in order to take the fight to them. Like them, we also have to group up and smart up.

In addition, while the organization will be set up in a legal manner - its creation and efforts must not be allowed to stand or fall in terms of government approval (or any half-assed 'legalized' sense or standard of justice). It will combat corrupt governments and members of corrupt governments with the same ferocity as the fight against scammers and/or black hat hackers.

Yes, there are many things to consider here, but nothing is impossible. And again, if you're in reference to state agencies when you state "not to mention that there are already agencies like this," then you already have your answer. The organization will not seek to be babysitted by any government. Cryptos are about taking our own destinity in our hands - not waiting on goverments to do it for us.

Yes, chances are that the special task force units will be questioned, but like I've indicated, they will predominantly operate like private investigators. When muscle is required, alliances could be formed with private security companies, traditional law enforcement agencies and such across the world. If that fails, it will encourage the Dexters of the world to take action. We cannot sit with a situation where the public at large are continuously treated as slaves, goods to be traded or stolen - all based on fake, half-assed standards of justice and protection.

In terms of hackers/scammers, there should be an amnesty period to come clean and join the good fight. Anyone that wants to get clean should be given the chance to get clean. The aim of the proposed organization will be to save lives while combatting criminality as defined by good, old-fashioned common sense. Anything less, will simply not cut it.

In any case, there you have it, my two satoshis (or the traditional two cents/pennies). I stand by what I've written. Sorry for not getting into it at length, but that must suffice for now.
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March 01, 2018, 04:07:18 PM
 #31

You are quite an idealist and too optimistic here. This will NOT happen. Society praises scammers once they have truly won. Look at all the most famous world's banking families, JP Morgan, Rockefeller, etc. They have ALL started as bandits and criminals and murderers in their old days, then they have won, and now they are the world's most respected families. The grandfather of H.W. Bush, Prescott Bush, was making deals with nazis, this is where the family money came. Everything is forgotten. The winner takes all. Prestige included.
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March 01, 2018, 04:36:21 PM
 #32

You are quite an idealist and too optimistic here. This will NOT happen. Society praises scammers once they have truly won. Look at all the most famous world's banking families, JP Morgan, Rockefeller, etc. They have ALL started as bandits and criminals and murderers in their old days, then they have won, and now they are the world's most respected families. The grandfather of H.W. Bush, Prescott Bush, was making deals with nazis, this is where the family money came. Everything is forgotten. The winner takes all. Prestige included.

I agree, it is easy to lose hope and difficult to push forward. However, I remain confident that positive change will come if enough of us push forward. Their main tool of control are their ability to manipulate public opinion - and in effect the masses. I am confident that this manipulation will only work up to a certain point before it backfires in their faces - people are getting fed up of false narratives and outright lies. Needless to say, we have to use the tools at our disposal wisely. There are many good men and women that will stand up once they wake up from their deep slumber.

In addition, we should forget about Superman coming to our rescue. We will have to unite and collectively rescue ourselves - even if such unity is only based on a sense of humor.
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March 01, 2018, 05:19:58 PM
 #33

Bitcoin stands for humanity, fair money system, decentralization, democracy, equality and transparency. This is the systems that the world needs the most.

But, its need awareness and consciousness from its user to be smart and watch every greed on their self, otherwise, scammer will eat you crudely. 

it was the conclusion to anyone's mind before but that is not what it is today. they don't know what is the difference of fear and shame. Blind of money is  what makes them greedy, The point here is not psychological,emotional, or financial, what causes these kind of disease is not having true contentment.
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March 01, 2018, 05:57:19 PM
 #34

Bitcoin stands for humanity, fair money system, decentralization, democracy, equality and transparency. This is the systems that the world needs the most.

But, its need awareness and consciousness from its user to be smart and watch every greed on their self, otherwise, scammer will eat you crudely.  

it was the conclusion to anyone's mind before but that is not what it is today. they don't know what is the difference of fear and shame. Blind of money is  what makes them greedy, The point here is not psychological,emotional, or financial, what causes these kind of disease is not having true contentment.

Agreed. I am afraid if we fail to stop the greediness and blindness we will before long lose the whole nine yards. E.g. I am seeing too many people in this space who are keen to get government and banksters to babysit. They don't see the red lights. It is like they've completely forgotten the reasons why we have cryptos in the first place. In terms of not having contentment, this song sums it up perfectly: https://youtu.be/sffBQpWDPeo
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March 02, 2018, 07:27:22 AM
 #35

Scammers took advantage, because today cryptocurrency rises, and there are a lot of beginners involves in cryptoworld. Otherwise, most of people believes quickly in terms of money, while scammers advertise more believable scams they want. I hope these scammers will be gone in crypto because maybe these scammer will pull down cryptocurrency.
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March 02, 2018, 10:11:13 AM
 #36

Scammers took advantage, because today cryptocurrency rises, and there are a lot of beginners involves in cryptoworld. Otherwise, most of people believes quickly in terms of money, while scammers advertise more believable scams they want. I hope these scammers will be gone in crypto because maybe these scammer will pull down cryptocurrency.

I am sorry to say, but they are selfish bastards and low life losers. They could have made tons of money along side us in a legal way, but chose instead to place the whole nine yards at risk, while indiscriminately stealing from others, including the poor and vulnerable. I started out with a very small amount that I've built up. They have no real excuses. They have the expertise to defraud, but not enough brain power to make a normal living in this space... it doesn't add up. Except if the bulk of these maggots are bought and paid for by corrupt governments and banksters. Then their actions make perfect sense. Anyhow, I suppose I find it difficult to understand the criminal mind. Instead of choosing to be Robin Hood, they choose to be outright a-holes.
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March 03, 2018, 12:55:59 AM
 #37

Every scammer will be left behind one way or the other. Because a new world is about to form. Were tech and crytpo unite. Also a world where peace will prevail, and thus there will be no place for dishonest people. 
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March 06, 2018, 01:42:05 AM
 #38

Every scammer will be left behind one way or the other. Because a new world is about to form. Were tech and crytpo unite. Also a world where peace will prevail, and thus there will be no place for dishonest people

This whole statement is ideal, meaning possibility of it going to happen is 0%.

Old scammers will go, but new scammers will emerge. No matter what changes come or how advanced the technologies are, there no end in people that will do things just for their own self satisfaction.

Meaning Humans are great because of what we built, but most of the time scary, as they can do such things just to have what they want - greed, jealousy, envy, power etc. You can say that every person is sane, but deep inside there are irrationality going on.
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March 06, 2018, 09:40:11 AM
 #39

Every scammer will be left behind one way or the other. Because a new world is about to form. Were tech and crytpo unite. Also a world where peace will prevail, and thus there will be no place for dishonest people

This whole statement is ideal, meaning possibility of it going to happen is 0%.

Old scammers will go, but new scammers will emerge. No matter what changes come or how advanced the technologies are, there no end in people that will do things just for their own self satisfaction.

Meaning Humans are great because of what we built, but most of the time scary, as they can do such things just to have what they want - greed, jealousy, envy, power etc. You can say that every person is sane, but deep inside there are irrationality going on.

Wise and true words. To claim otherwise would be to deny reality itself.

Thousands of years of real history shows beyond a reasonable doubt that we're capable of greatness and also have the ability to scoop down to the lowest of levels - far beyond what even the animal kingdom can muster. While the public at large remains blinded by strong illusions and lies - and ourselves to some extend or another, the trend will be downwards and mistakes of the past will be repeated again - leading to the wholesale slaughter of millions upon millions of people again in the final equation. Because let's not kid ourselves, the end result of unchecked criminality - not only scamming - is always ditches and bulldozers. This while the scary reality is that most people are not even aware of the real massacres that went down in history. The blind lead the blind after all and end up in a ditch.

You're absolutely right, there is a constant struggle between sanity and insanity within us - and it is a hard struggle, especially when insanity is declared to be sanity in the name of political and religious correctness. As I always say, the human condition is the saddest condition of all. Yet, there is always a sparkle of hope to ignite the possibility to become better and aim for and achieve greatness through a mix of hard work, dedication, luck and wisdom. The choice is ours - both as individuals and as a collective.

In addition, while the statement made by Bonanzacoin may be ideal as a whole, such statements are absolutely necessary. We have to dream it first before it can stand a chance to become reality. History can be made! We don't have to march in lock step with the past, especially when it comes to repeating the mistakes of the past. 
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March 06, 2018, 02:16:01 PM
 #40

Every scammer will be left behind one way or the other. Because a new world is about to form. Were tech and crytpo unite. Also a world where peace will prevail, and thus there will be no place for dishonest people

This whole statement is ideal, meaning possibility of it going to happen is 0%.

Old scammers will go, but new scammers will emerge. No matter what changes come or how advanced the technologies are, there no end in people that will do things just for their own self satisfaction.

Meaning Humans are great because of what we built, but most of the time scary, as they can do such things just to have what they want - greed, jealousy, envy, power etc. You can say that every person is sane, but deep inside there are irrationality going on.

That mayb true in physical world. But in the spiritual/afterlife world this is allready reality. And in the end that is the only reality.
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