Money over IP a threat to bitcoin

[n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU]

I got a Venmo "friend request" from a from a somewhat tech-savvy person a couple days ago.

Did not follow up, but given that I have yet to receive a Bitcoin payment request from anybody I know (or even Paypal, for that matter), based on this single data point, I'm tempted to take this company slightly more seriously as a money transmission competitor.

As many have pointed out, Bitcoin is much more than just cheap money transmission.  But the value proposition of its other properties is much more difficult to understand for the average person, at least until the next financial crisis.  So there is a time window during which a competitive transmission service could gain significant mindshare if it goes viral quickly enough.

[coderjeff]

Venmo first went online in August 2009 and was released to the public last year after two years of beta testing; a few months later, the credit-card processing company Braintree bought it for $26.2 million. The company doesn’t publicize the number of users it has, but according to the New York Times, as of its public debut Venmo was processing around $10 million in payments per month and growing by 30 percent per month.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/08/venmo_review_the_wallet_app_is_light_years_ahead_of_paypal.html

[Kluge]

Venmo first went online in August 2009 and was released to the public last year after two years of beta testing; a few months later, the credit-card processing company Braintree bought it for $26.2 million. The company doesn’t publicize the number of users it has, but according to the New York Times, as of its public debut Venmo was processing around $10 million in payments per month and growing by 30 percent per month.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/08/venmo_review_the_wallet_app_is_light_years_ahead_of_paypal.html

The $10m number came from their beta phase, apparently, which doesn't do me much good unless we consider Venmo to've opened in 2010.

In 2009, Dwolla did ~$200k its first month (they opened in December). http://www.businessinsider.com/this-28-year-old-is-making-sure-credit-cards-wont-exist-in-the-next-few-years-2011-11
In 2010,
In 2011, Dwolla was doing ~$30-50M per month on average (just the later months?). http://www.businessinsider.com/this-28-year-old-is-making-sure-credit-cards-wont-exist-in-the-next-few-years-2011-11
In 2012 & 2013,

I'm not sure how to compare them since Venmo had a 2-year beta phase and with the limited info.

[warpio]

The digital aspect of venmo sounds like a nice little addition to what we currently have as online banking, but it's certainly nothing revolutionary or interesting at all (just from what I've heard)... it might have some effect in delaying the critical mass of bitcoin adaption, but ultimately I think society will gradually move away from the privately controlled banking system and get further into crypto as the technology around it continues to improve.

[jl2012]

WHAT BANKS WORK WITH VENMO?
Your Venmo account works with all the major banks in the United States.

WHAT COUNTRIES CAN I USE VENMO IN?
Venmo can only be used in the U.S.

Well that eliminates what, 96% of the world from using it?

It looks no better than Paypal - just with a nicer, social interface.

LOL

Some people believe USSA = the world

[/thread]

[Phinnaeus Gage]

The app links your Facebook friends and email contacts to your bank account. All data is sent over a 256-bit encrypted connection—the same encryption method used to protect classified government information—and transactions are protected by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation.

Use Venmo on the new iPhone equipped with the fingerprint reader and you're golden.

The simple act of convincing enough friends to use the service makes it useful.

And Bitcoin isn't at $500 per because...

[Crypt_Current]

The app links your Facebook friends and email contacts to your bank account. All data is sent over a 256-bit encrypted connection—the same encryption method used to protect classified government information—and transactions are protected by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation.

Use Venmo on the new iPhone equipped with the fingerprint reader and you're golden.

The simple act of convincing enough friends to use the service makes it useful.

And Bitcoin isn't at $500 per because...

Exactly!  Fuck... That... Shit.

No effect on BTC price.  Maybe help it a bit like Dwolla.  Do I *have* to link a FB to it?  If so, no thanks, not ever.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDDsELTDiHQ

The highest view count on YouTube for Venmo (link above) is 12,962 and was uploaded on April 22, 2010.

The high view count is probably why Braintree purchased it for...wait for it...$26.2M USD: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/16/payments-start-up-braintree-buys-venmo-for-26-2-million/?_r=2

Luckily, Braintree is a major brand which can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixj5-tlTeSw

Pay no attention to the view count of 7,050 (highest video view count on YT) or the Jun 10, 2010 upload date.

Bitcoin has higher view counts with some Hitler parody videos, thus concluding that Venmo's user base is not that high, and that Braintree was high on crack when they bought it.

To drive my point home, consider the following: I just sold my barn wood business to an undisclosed buyer for $3.5M USD. Now that I'm a VC, I going to invest it all in Coinabul or Dank's Magical Mystery Tour.

[600watt]

[/quote]

And bitcoiners dont' have to care about "the masses".  Even if it remains a niche, it will continue to grow dramatically.  There is plenty of demand for a trustworthy currency.  Other than bitcoin and altcoins, there is no competition.
[/quote]


strongly disagree. if no mass adoption happens it will die a slow, painful death.


@adpinbr: i now how you are feeling. this "we may all be fooled" fear. we can only hope that the masses will see the difference between centralized/fiat-based and distributed/algorithm-based.

[afbitcoins]

I think the masses will be the last into bitcoin, too late to get any benefit from being early adopters, thats just the way the cookie crumbles. Until then they will continue as they are, not really noticing that the value of their money keeps decreasing relentlessly.

[prophetx]

The issue with btc is that the price is volatile, thus the utility of btc must surpass the costs associated with hedging against volatility

There are a limited number of applications were the anonymity and cross border functionality make use of btc a net positive, buying coffee, buying gas, grocery shopping or paying your rent is not among them.

gambling, remittances, bypassing intl wire and exchange fees, investment in the thing, buying herb online, avoiding merchant tx fees and not waiting a couple weeks to get your money from visa/mc

As an inflationary hedge it has a limited audience. 

[b!z]

It looks like Paypal, for mobile. Are payments reversible or not?

[Miz4r]

We've been over this before only with Ripple being a threat instead of this thing. I don't buy into anything that is still based on our current outdated fiat system, this only builds on what already exists and there's nothing revolutionary about it. It may become a fad, but ultimately it will go down with the fiat system. Good luck to those who think it's the next big thing, not for me.

[Zaih]

That sure as hell isn't going to cease insane inflation levels

[RodeoX]

Is Venmo usable overseas, or does it only use USD? If it is not global then it is in no way a threat.

EDIT: Oh I see now. It only works in the U.S.

[RationalSpeculator]

The issue with btc is that the price is volatile, thus the utility of btc must surpass the costs associated with hedging against volatility

There are a limited number of applications were the anonymity and cross border functionality make use of btc a net positive, buying coffee, buying gas, grocery shopping or paying your rent is not among them.

gambling, remittances, bypassing intl wire and exchange fees, investment in the thing, buying herb online, avoiding merchant tx fees and not waiting a couple weeks to get your money from visa/mc

As an inflationary hedge it has a limited audience.  

+1

I like to add donations though.

I notice that I am much quicker donating to people thanks to btc. Donating with paypal is less fun and if I do it I pay less. Ie: I donate much more easily higher value with bitcoin.

When I donate in bitcoin I know people will remember how many btc I gave, and likely in a few years when btc is up, my donation to them will go up in value in their mind.

It's like donating a valuable stock, or precious metals, something you think will go up in value considerably, much cooler to do then donating fiat that will go down in value.

Also by donating btc I am actually building the value of my remaining btc because more people have btc and start valuing it.

I think donations make a chance to become the killer app of bitcoin.

[600watt]

 
[/quote]

+1

I like to add donations though.

I notice that I am much quicker donating to people thanks to btc. Donating with paypal is less fun and if I do it I pay less. Ie: I donate much more easily higher value with bitcoin.

When I donate in bitcoin I know people will remember how many btc I gave, and likely in a few years when btc is up, my donation to them will go up in value in their mind.

It's like donating a valuable stock, or precious metals, something you think will go up in value considerably, much cooler to do then donating fiat that will go down in value.

Also by donating btc I am actually building the value of my remaining btc because more people have btc and start valuing it.

I think donations make a chance to become the killer app of bitcoin.

[/quote]

that is correct. but...  an example is the german B.U.N.D. (top ranking environmental group) which had announced it would take bitcoins for donations beginning of this year. in an interview they expressed their dissapointment since so far the btc donations are summing up to not even 1 btc.

[sgbett]

did venmo pay for this adverthreadisment?

[MAbtc]

LOL

Some people believe USSA = the world

[/thread]

I wouldn't assume they intend to stay domestic only... but transitioning into an international platform entails significant overhead. There are dozens of companies moving into this sector, and if you are going to dismiss them on this basis, just wait a couple years.

We've been over this before only with Ripple being a threat instead of this thing.

As far as mention of Ripple goes, it's a bad analogy. People are already very comfortable with services like Venmo. Ripple? They don't even understand crypto-currency. They don't want to bother with figuring out trust and debt systems with endless issuers of the same currency (which may or may not be liquid). Ripple is even much less appealing than bitcoin in this respect.

taking plastic is a huge advantage for adoption rates cause its simple to set up, Facebook didn't have any clear cut advantage over friendster/myspace from a functional point of view. but it had a great UI and it was cool and it caught on. Same thing i happening now

This. It's a bit early to be dismissive on the basis of adoption. Credit cards and overnight bank transfers with instant processing with a sleek, social networking-oriented interface -- this niche is going to be extremely important going forward. And Venmo is not the only company occupying it by any means.

I got a Venmo "friend request" from a from a somewhat tech-savvy person a couple days ago.

Did not follow up, but given that I have yet to receive a Bitcoin payment request from anybody I know (or even Paypal, for that matter), based on this single data point, I'm tempted to take this company slightly more seriously as a money transmission competitor.

As many have pointed out, Bitcoin is much more than just cheap money transmission.  But the value proposition of its other properties is much more difficult to understand for the average person, at least until the next financial crisis.  So there is a time window during which a competitive transmission service could gain significant mindshare if it goes viral quickly enough.

This is my experience as well.

It's strange that I often see bitcoiners hyping its use as currency to make a case for mass adoption... but then they dismiss out of hand the implications of having well-developed products occupying the same niche. If we're just talking about "sound money" -- that's a hell of a lot less attractive to potential adopters.

People here are comparing bitcoin to Venmo. That's the wrong way to look at this. We should be comparing bitcoin to the mobile payment and mobile billing sector. Paypal, Wipit, Clover, Square, Zapp/WorldPay, M-Pesa, Dwolla, Google Wallet, TapFunder/WePay, BuyReply, Stripe, Boku, Zong, Fortumo, text2pay, impulsepay, junglepay, onebip, BilltoMobile, Dash, etc. ad nauseum. Shit, I mean..... WorldPay partnering with Zapp means you'll be able to instantly pay vendors like McDonald's with a QR code. Facebook confirmed a few weeks ago that they are testing a portable wallet that will process payments via third parties like Paypal and Braintree.

There's a hell of a lot more money being invested into mobile payment start-ups than any start-ups related to bitcoin. That's for sure.

[monkeybars]

did venmo pay for this adverthreadisment?

ding ding ding, winner! or maybe just paranoia.

not a direct competitor in any way to Bitcoin; venmo is only a transmittance system, not both a transmittance and currency like BTC. in fact, venmo and btc could even work together someday.