Money over IP a threat to bitcoin

[coderjeff]

There's a hell of a lot more money being invested into mobile payment start-ups than any start-ups related to bitcoin. That's for sure.

+1
A friend of mine just started working for a new start-up that just received a large investment to create a mobile payment product for use in a Latin American country.

[n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU]

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/08/venmo_review_the_wallet_app_is_light_years_ahead_of_paypal.html

Thank you for the article.

Venmo is yet another bandaid.  Bitcoin is the ultimate cure.

Let's hope the planet figures out quickly that it's got more than just a flesh wound.

[hacknoid]

Don't forget too that Bitcoin is a protocol - not an app  (like http vs a web browser).

All someone needs to do is write a wrapper so that you can send directly to someone's email or facebook account, and you're all set.  If the W3C standard on web payments integrates it, then Bitcoin will instantly become accessible to over a billion people.

We just need some better, slicker, more user-friendly tools.


Oh, and a cool promotional video with lots of trendy people. 

[MAbtc]

We just need some better, slicker, more user-friendly tools.

Yeah, I think that's pretty much the message here. Adoption will require considerable utility, emphasis on top notch UI, and effective marketing of both. We're certainly not there.

[superduh]

as prob mentioned. this is fiat ONLY. it's 100% identifiable and trackable. it's US only and won't work well across borders. and frankly i think it's kind of pointless to a degree. it's also pegged to fiat. anyways - this is no competition this is just another paypal

[600watt]

There's a hell of a lot more money being invested into mobile payment start-ups than any start-ups related to bitcoin. That's for sure.

+1
A friend of mine just started working for a new start-up that just received a large investment to create a mobile payment product for use in a Latin American country.

+1 true, vc money is raining down on mobile payment start-ups, and a lot of them fail anyway. i had talks to a vc company earlier this year. they had no clue what bitcoin was. we tried to explain.

vc: "but if there are only 21 mio ever created, this can never fuel an economy"
us: "no, that does not matter, you can devide bitcoins into smaller fraction.... ...down to a satoshi..."
vc: "but deviding them does not make more bitcoins available"
us: "it does, it will be smaller fractions of a bitcoin.... (trying to explain like to kid)
vc: "nah, i don´t believe it"
us: "but it is a fact,..."
vc: "you say it is a fact, i don´t believe it"
us:

that was the head of a very succesful vc company. we could hardly explain our business idea, since we had to explain the bitcoin project. whenever you talk to vc in europe, be prepared...

[qwk]

Just to put that into perspective:

There are now 725 startups listed under Payments on AngelList
https://angel.co/payments
Venmo is just one of them

Top 25 (bitcoin companies in bold):

WePay
Stripe
Klarna
Balanced
Coinbase
Recurly
Venmo
Vend
Abine
Cover
Dwolla
BitPay
ClairMail
Square
Clover
SlidePay
Signifyd
peerTransfer
PayNearMe
Ribbon
SeatMe
Clinkle
card.io
PayDragon
ShopSavvy

[adpinbr]

Just to put that into perspective:

There are now 725 startups listed under Payments on AngelList
https://angel.co/payments
Venmo is just one of them

Top 25 (bitcoin companies in bold):

WePay
Stripe
Klarna
Balanced
Coinbase
Recurly
Venmo
Vend
Abine
Cover
Dwolla
BitPay
ClairMail
Square
Clover
SlidePay
Signifyd
peerTransfer
PayNearMe
Ribbon
SeatMe
Clinkle
card.io
PayDragon
ShopSavvy

The fact that you have 10% of those bitcoin start ups is misleading. that is not "good news" as fiat + IP has been around for a while and therefore the startup "uproar" should not be at its peak. (e.g paypal) Bitcoin is new with an ATH of publicity in the last few months, and all we have is fucking coin base (not even close to venmo UI) and bit pay (i don't even get what they do that coin base doesn't  besides provide you with some automated QR)

[Nemo1024]

First time I hear about this V-thingy. Is it a US service, as people were also talking about Dwolla, which I associate with money processing failure in US with regard to Gox?

[Coinseeker]

The weakness of many of the pro-bitcoin arguments in this thread, is Bitcoin's success depends on the failure of fiat.  Not a viable business model, IMO.  The masses aren't ideological.  They just want simple and cost effective means to move money.  Digital, fiat...who cares.  Their lives are not dominated by economic paranoia or some desire for decentralization and thus any simple and safe service will do.  Bitcoin is not yet on that level of simplicity and it's for this reason that other services are crushing Bitcoin in adoption rates.  As has been said over and over again...when people stop following the Bitcoin zeolots into the obscurity, maybe some real innovations will come about to put Bitcoin on a level that's actually appealing to the masses.  That said, a 20% Bitcoin success rate is probably very generous.

[smoothie]

Okay so venmo is an interface to the banks to make payments?

Thus it is then regulated and centralized.

Remind me how it is a threat to bitcoin?

[adpinbr]

it is not a threat to bitcoin it is a threat to bitcoin adoption. If we assume that venmo will attempt to capitalize their network by becoming the cash over IP gurilla, well then you could send tips to people on youtube/this forum through venmo. its basically kills bitcoins added utility besides a safe heaven, but if all we need is a safe heaven then why not gold? I understand that logically one could still argue that bitcoin has many merits, so does pgp encryption, but for some reason it never caught on, all i am saying is that the way the "cards have been dealt" right now i am not as bullish of bitcoin receiving mass adoption

[Entengro]

A lot of digital payment systems dont have what bitcoin does.  Its global footprint.  I think third world countries and non western ones find more accessible to bitcoin because these other payment systems are using USD. 

[afbitcoins]

The issue with btc is that the price is volatile, thus the utility of btc must surpass the costs associated with hedging against volatility

There are a limited number of applications were the anonymity and cross border functionality make use of btc a net positive, buying coffee, buying gas, grocery shopping or paying your rent is not among them.

gambling, remittances, bypassing intl wire and exchange fees, investment in the thing, buying herb online, avoiding merchant tx fees and not waiting a couple weeks to get your money from visa/mc

As an inflationary hedge it has a limited audience.  

+1

I like to add donations though.

I notice that I am much quicker donating to people thanks to btc. Donating with paypal is less fun and if I do it I pay less. Ie: I donate much more easily higher value with bitcoin.

When I donate in bitcoin I know people will remember how many btc I gave, and likely in a few years when btc is up, my donation to them will go up in value in their mind.

It's like donating a valuable stock, or precious metals, something you think will go up in value considerably, much cooler to do then donating fiat that will go down in value.

Also by donating btc I am actually building the value of my remaining btc because more people have btc and start valuing it.

I think donations make a chance to become the killer app of bitcoin.

RationalSpeculator I like the cut of your jib


In response to other comments there is no point comparing bitcoins to things like paypal or whatever, bitcoins is like gold

[b!z]

I don't think it is a threat. BTC has so many advantages over services like PP.

[BitcoinAshley]

Um
Ok another thread where people talk about something that isn't a threat to bitcoin as if it has any possibility of ever becoming a threat to bitcoin.

MoIP? V whatever? RIPPLE? Come on guys. Next thing you know someone is going to make a thread "Is Square a thread to bitcoin?"
Bitcoin is clunky beta shit with bugs and a roller coaster exchange rate and is under heavy attack from banks and regulators. It's achieved widespread success not because of a flashy name and hip product branding but becuase it has the potential to free us from the tyranny of the [insert whatever group of tyrants you think is fucking with the economy]

I mean come on. AmazonCoins a threat to bitcoin? Get a clue, people.

[RationalSpeculator]

RationalSpeculator I like the cut of your jib

Made my day, thanks afbitcoins

[Xer0]

The weakness of many of the pro-bitcoin arguments in this thread, is Bitcoin's success depends on the failure of fiat.  Not a viable business model, IMO.  The masses aren't ideological.  They just want simple and cost effective means to move money.  Digital, fiat...who cares.  Their lives are not dominated by economic paranoia or some desire for decentralization and thus any simple and safe service will do.  Bitcoin is not yet on that level of simplicity and it's for this reason that other services are crushing Bitcoin in adoption rates.  As has been said over and over again...when people stop following the Bitcoin zeolots into the obscurity, maybe some real innovations will come about to put Bitcoin on a level that's actually appealing to the masses.  That said, a 20% Bitcoin success rate is probably very generous.

+1 exactly that

[sgbett]

It doeasnt depend on the failure of fiat, so much as the fear of failure of fiat. FOFOF!

[DavidBAL]

I think venmo is the biggest threat to bitcoin. If money over IP becomes prevalent without the need for bitcoin/cryptocurrencies, than the only benefit they really offer is for ideologist/criminals/economic reasons. But a lot of the added utility that we emphasize will disappear. And I ask myself, why don't we have that kiiler app yet?

Maybe we have all been fooled, maybe bitcoin will never go mainstream by the average joe that doesn't own gold and has his money run by a financial manager.
I was an Über-bull, but the realization that i see my friends using venmo, and not even close to understanding bitcoin, just made me extremely bearish

Just got back from speaking at a conference at Wharton- some kid showed me this app, it's really sick. I have no idea how they move the money so quickly tho.