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Author Topic: Ripple XRP surge open source and ZipZap news!  (Read 27877 times)
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September 18, 2013, 11:44:51 AM
 #161

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Sure, you got that right, currently Bitstamp is hard-coded into "Bitcoin Bridge" (I don't know if something changed about this), but you must realise that "Bitcoin Bridge" is a protocol, in the future every gateway will use it, so as we get more gateways then more "Bitcoin Bridge" will become gateway-less thing in Ripple. DividendRippler is just one bright example what we could expect in future, everyone could set a Ripple Gateway, that was my point. As the number of gateways raise, we will get more and more freedom for Bitcoin.

So it's OK if satoshi said "you must mine at BTC guild, eventually there will be more mining pools"?

The reason why BitStamp is the only bitcoin bridge is because nobody really cares about ripple, other than the shills of course. Delude yourself otherwise.

You know it's really an impossible thing to love Bitcoin and hate Ripple or to love Ripple and hate Bitcoin, same people build both of them, including Satoshi.
Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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September 18, 2013, 11:46:07 AM
 #162

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Sure, you got that right, currently Bitstamp is hard-coded into "Bitcoin Bridge" (I don't know if something changed about this), but you must realise that "Bitcoin Bridge" is a protocol, in the future every gateway will use it, so as we get more gateways then more "Bitcoin Bridge" will become gateway-less thing in Ripple. DividendRippler is just one bright example what we could expect in future, everyone could set a Ripple Gateway, that was my point. As the number of gateways raise, we will get more and more freedom for Bitcoin.

So it's OK if satoshi said "you must mine at BTC guild, eventually there will be more mining pools"?

The reason why BitStamp is the only bitcoin bridge is because nobody really cares about ripple, other than the shills of course. Delude yourself otherwise.

You know it's really an impossible thing to love Bitcoin and hate Ripple or to love Ripple and hate Bitcoin, same people build both of them, including Satoshi.
Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Cheesy
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September 18, 2013, 11:50:26 AM
 #163

Ladies and gentleman Mr. TradeFortress, give him a warm welcome.

Are you the owner of RippleScam.org? How will you handle the lawsuit from OpenCoin when they sue you for doing that?
By the way, Mr. Tradefortress I heard that your business is closed-source, off-the-chain, centralized, IOU issuing webwallet service that is advertising that it transacts (near) instantly between users?
Is that true? Good luck with that Cheesy

The key thing is that Inputs compliments the decentralized Bitcoin instead of replacing Bitcoin with a centralized version and calling it XIO.
Would you allow people opening inputs.io Bitcoin IOU<--> Ripple Bitcoin IOU bridges/gateways?

There is an API to add your own gateways to a Ripple client, the Bitstamp one seems to be in there by default though (something I don't like either, though as the client is open source, I can easily patch that out).

The main difference between inputs.io and Ripple is that you don't try to open anything up to the public, so you have the benefits of running fully centralized. You simply don't need to create public ledgers, a way to rate-limit decentralized peers or a way to make sure which transaction was first, as this ALL will be handled by your centralized, closed, IOU-moving server(s).

DividendRippler is not an exchange, it is a gateway to enter the distributed exchange that is called "Ripple". Depending on your viewpoint it might be easy to confuse them with an actual exchange, as the process goes hand in hand (similar to SVN --> GIT similarities and differences). Also there are several layers on Ripple that are decentralized to certain degrees - gateways that issue/redeem IOUs, XRP as assets, the rippled servers that process transactions, ripple clients that construct transactions and display information... so far anyone can build a gateway based on the public API, the client code is open source and XRP are as valueless as BTC initially (though they might be worth something based on their usefulness and network effects). Even if rippled is open sourced, this can and will not change anything about the distribution of XRP - luckily they are not (unlike BTC) the only thing that the network can transact.

All in all I guess there is a lot of misunderstanding and misinterpretation going on around Ripple, which can be also seen here, as nearly any post about it (even if it does NOT deal with XRP as currency) gets moved to Alternate Cryptocurrencies while threads about other exchanges, markets or IOU issuers stay in their respective forums even if they rarely deal with pure on-chain BTC (or never at all, like BitFunder, who ONLY deals in weexchange BTC IOUs!).

AmazonStuff has earned a place on my mental ignore list by the way, this kind of making up facts is irritating and only serves to make Ripple users look bad (or heavily invested in XRP...).

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges.
https://www.bitfinex.com <-- Trade BTC for other currencies and vice versa.
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September 18, 2013, 11:55:24 AM
 #164

AmazonStuff has earned a place on my mental ignore list by the way, this kind of making up facts is irritating and only serves to make Ripple users look bad (or heavily invested in XRP...).
OK, then I will never make another post about Ripple
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September 18, 2013, 12:03:15 PM
 #165

If you are _that_ dependent on my approval... Roll Eyes

I can understand a certain excitement, once you start claiming that Satoshi is also developing Ripple though you might actually need to take a deep breath, step back from the keyboard and just be happy that XRP gained so much recently, just because Patrick said something on a Bitcoin meetup in NYC that was recorded.

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges.
https://www.bitfinex.com <-- Trade BTC for other currencies and vice versa.
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September 18, 2013, 12:05:22 PM
 #166

Ah yes...Tradefortress rhetoric with my morning coffee.  The sweet sounds of defeat.   Grin  I can't believe you have the cojones to even post, as your long term campaign against Ripple gets exposed as the only real scam.  A scam you invented to protect your own closed source, IOU issuing business.  You certainly tried, I'll give you that little guy.  But true innovation can't be stopped by some random haters with mouths full of ignorance and lies.  Have you learned nothing from Bitcoin?

For all of you that listened to this Tradefortress fraud...maybe next time you'll trying researching and thinking for yourselves.  Because to not do so, is exactly how and why the current banking industry keeps a strangle hold on everything and everyone.  Stop being part of the problem...stop being lazy and go read the wiki.  Or...get ready to do what Tradefortress is currently doing, when you miss the bus:



BTW-Where's NWO???  You didn't think I forgot did you.  Still waiting on the Ripple addy, son.   I'd still love to eat some humble pie.  It too goes good with coffee.  Roll Eyes


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September 18, 2013, 12:09:34 PM
 #167

If you are _that_ dependent on my approval... Roll Eyes

I can understand a certain excitement, once you start claiming that Satoshi is also developing Ripple though you might actually need to take a deep breath, step back from the keyboard and just be happy that XRP gained so much recently, just because Patrick said something on a Bitcoin meetup in NYC that was recorded.
If you say that I harm Ripple, I believe you, I really respect you and yes, that is my definitive decision. Only thing I want to add it that I did a lot of research (two years) about Satoshi and that I mostly wrote about things that already happened in the Ripple World. I thought that it would be good for Bitcoin community to know the truth about Ripple because I was sick of Ripple false accusations: https://ripple.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3614#p17272 that was my motivation.
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September 18, 2013, 12:11:26 PM
 #168

Ah yes...Tradefortress rhetoric with my morning coffee.  The sweet sounds of defeat.   Grin  I can't believe you have the cojones to even post, as your long term campaign against Ripple gets exposed as the only real scam.  A scam you invented to protect your own closed source, IOU issuing business.  You certainly tried, I'll give you that little guy.  But true innovation can't be stopped by some random haters with mouths full of ignorance and lies.  Have you learned nothing from Bitcoin?

For all of you that listened to this Tradefortress fraud...maybe next time you'll trying researching and thinking for yourselves.  Because to not do so, is exactly how and why the current banking industry keeps a strangle hold on everything and everyone.  Stop being part of the problem...stop being lazy and go read the wiki.  Or...get ready to do what Tradefortress is currently doing, when you miss the bus:



Follow this guy's advice! Do some research on coinseeker Smiley

I take acquiring ripplepay, slapping on a 100% premined XRP is innovation?

It's quite interesting how the only people defending Ripple so far are blatant shills that makes a laughstock of themselves (with the exception of Sukrim).
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September 18, 2013, 12:13:48 PM
 #169

Anyway, "going open source" is too vague, and the OpenCon guy here didn't respond to the actual concerns.

Right now, Ripple is 100% centralized. It's very easy to take it out. Is it going to change?
I suppose you are more genius than Google who invested 200K.  Roll Eyes
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September 18, 2013, 12:14:00 PM
 #170

If you are _that_ dependent on my approval... Roll Eyes

I can understand a certain excitement, once you start claiming that Satoshi is also developing Ripple though you might actually need to take a deep breath, step back from the keyboard and just be happy that XRP gained so much recently, just because Patrick said something on a Bitcoin meetup in NYC that was recorded.
If you say that I harm Ripple, I believe you, I really respect you and yes, that is my definitive decision. Only thing I want to add it that I did a lot of research (two years) about Satoshi and that I mostly wrote about things that already happened in the Ripple World. I thought that it would be good for Bitcoin community to know the truth about Ripple because I was sick of Ripple false accusations: https://ripple.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3614#p17272 that was my motivation.


And Sukrim, also a proof that I don't lie about respecting you, you can see your name on the list Cheesy ----> https://ripple.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3654&start=30#p17636
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September 18, 2013, 12:15:53 PM
 #171

Anyway, "going open source" is too vague, and the OpenCon guy here didn't respond to the actual concerns.

Right now, Ripple is 100% centralized. It's very easy to take it out. Is it going to change?
I suppose you are more genius than Google who invested 200K.  Roll Eyes
Ripple may even have more success than Google Buzz or Google Wave, which they invested tens of millions in minimum each.

Google, much like Zynga, acquired aardvark for $50 million. It was discontinued shortly after. They also acquired Jaiku, which failed and was discontinued shortly after. They also acquired Dodgeball, whose founders left to make Foursqaure, and Dodgeball was discontinued shortly after.

If Google thinks Ripple is great, why did they also fund Buttercoin? Perhaps it's about the evaluation that something may be a profitable investment depending on the conditions that OpenCoin Inc offered.

Start thinking for yourself and evaluating systems yourself instead of blindly following? Too difficult for those who can only reproduce the same point again and again, but that's OK - all they care about is the short term value of XRP, despite what they claim otherwise.
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September 18, 2013, 12:21:27 PM
 #172

Ah yes...Tradefortress rhetoric with my morning coffee.  The sweet sounds of defeat.   Grin  I can't believe you have the cojones to even post, as your long term campaign against Ripple gets exposed as the only real scam.  A scam you invented to protect your own closed source, IOU issuing business.  You certainly tried, I'll give you that little guy.  But true innovation can't be stopped by some random haters with mouths full of ignorance and lies.  Have you learned nothing from Bitcoin?

For all of you that listened to this Tradefortress fraud...maybe next time you'll trying researching and thinking for yourselves.  Because to not do so, is exactly how and why the current banking industry keeps a strangle hold on everything and everyone.  Stop being part of the problem...stop being lazy and go read the wiki.  Or...get ready to do what Tradefortress is currently doing, when you miss the bus:



Follow this guy's advice! Do some research on coinseeker Smiley

I take acquiring ripplepay, slapping on a 100% premined XRP is innovation?

It's quite interesting how the only people defending Ripple so far are blatant shills that makes a laughstock of themselves (with the exception of Sukrim).

That's it...cry it out son.  Everything will be ok.  Grin Grin

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September 18, 2013, 12:29:03 PM
 #173

Anyway, "going open source" is too vague, and the OpenCon guy here didn't respond to the actual concerns.

Right now, Ripple is 100% centralized. It's very easy to take it out. Is it going to change?
I suppose you are more genius than Google who invested 200K.  Roll Eyes
Ripple may even have more success than Google Buzz or Google Wave, which they invested tens of millions in minimum each.

Google, much like Zynga, acquired aardvark for $50 million. It was discontinued shortly after. They also acquired Jaiku, which failed and was discontinued shortly after. They also acquired Dodgeball, whose founders left to make Foursqaure, and Dodgeball was discontinued shortly after.

If Google thinks Ripple is great, why did they also fund Buttercoin? Perhaps it's about the evaluation that something may be a profitable investment depending on the conditions that OpenCoin Inc offered.

Start thinking for yourself and evaluating systems yourself instead of blindly following? Too difficult for those who can only reproduce the same point again and again, but that's OK - all they care about is the short term value of XRP, despite what they claim otherwise.
I know all these you say, in fact it is the same I am suggesting to him : ANYTHING can become huge and profit you tons of money!

So what is the problem people (including you of course) to SPECULATE some funds in this too? I mean come on, I am willing to bet in any shitcoin if I have enough funds to do so. Not extraordinary amounts but you know, something that will make a difference if this goes x1000.

This is what Google do, this is what VC do and this is what I do. You decided yourself not to do so - I judged differently.
Better to follow Google than you sorry.

Mind I am talking only for speculation here and not if Ripple is 'good or bad'.
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September 18, 2013, 12:32:02 PM
 #174

Ethics, emotions, technical analysis don't have much to do with speculative trading and LUCK..
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September 18, 2013, 12:34:29 PM
 #175

Thanks, I commend you for being honest about it Smiley
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September 18, 2013, 12:35:01 PM
 #176

Thanks, I commend you for being honest about it Smiley
Wink
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September 18, 2013, 01:00:49 PM
 #177

wow. all this negative talk about ripple and passionate people defending it is intriguing. to hate a project intensely, then opencoin must doing something to disrupt the disruptors.

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September 18, 2013, 02:10:45 PM
 #178

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What special news could the CTO of ZipZap be announcing? Well, considering they operate a global cash transaction network of 700,000 payment centers, perhaps they're going to be integrating with Ripple to become a massive multi-currency gateway?

http://www.thebitcointrader.com/2013/09/xrp-surges-nearly-300-in-just-over.html

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September 18, 2013, 02:45:09 PM
Last edit: September 18, 2013, 03:49:08 PM by DumbFruit
 #179

wow. all this negative talk about ripple and passionate people defending it is intriguing. to hate a project intensely, then opencoin must doing something to disrupt the disruptors.
Or maybe there are many people that are frustrated by OpenCoin's opaque front about the underlying failure of the Ripple concept and further irritated that they have claimed to be open source from day one; QED this announcement.

This is the underlying concept and "genius" of the ripple system; Obligations to redeem a token for a currency are functionally equivalent to holding the currency itself, or the equivalent exchange rate of any other currency IOU or asset IOU.
Since all debt is equivalent, debt can be generated through trust relationships (Friends of friends) and then be traded in the system. All intermediaries between the debtor and the lender are called "Liquidity Providers".

There are two UNSOLVABLE problems with this.

What has been quickly found out and even demonstrated by TradeFortress, is that debt through liquidity providers is open to immediate abuse. After all, even if there is a trust relationship between A and B, and between B and C, that doesn't mean there is any trust between A and C.

That is one unsolvable problem. It is unsolvable because there is no algorithm known to man that can predict any trust relationship between two strangers based on the relationship between a common person or string of people. (There is also the problem of deciding what the contractual relationship is between all three+ parties, but that's not unsolvable, persay. Daunting, for sure.)

The second unsolvable problem is predicting the value of debt versus assets immediately at hand. It is clear that IOU's traded should trade at a value above the principal, but what no algorithm can ever do is predict what that value is. It's subjective. Interest rates (which is essentially the same thing.) can only emerge from the calculation of independent actors in a free market.
(This problem is further complicated by the fact that it is dependent on the terms of the IOU. Length held, and risk of irredeemability are factors.)

If I had to sum up the killer of Ripple in one word it would be; Heuristics. The Ripple system demands that an algorithm be created to predict heuristics in a market given only trusted value between proximate individuals.

Has OpenCoin even tried to attack this daunting impossible task? No. What have they done instead? They ask that NO ONE trust ANYONE except gateways. Which INVALIDATES the entire Ripple concept.

After all, what are we left with when there is no web of trust in Ripple? An open platform for the exchange of resource obligations tied to the necessary XRP of which the majority is owned by handful of individuals.

We already have that, without the private company or the limitations of Ripple. It's called a "Free Market".

The only thing that Ripple would add is the ability to exchange arbitrary IOU's among gateways, but why would you want to do that?

Consider that Bed Bath and Beyond might put Mattresses out on the Ripple system, and they would be a mattress gateway. If a user in Ripple purchases a mattress IOU with USD they could swap out the mattress IOU for an equivalent amount of Rubles.

Now we have a bizarre setup where one gateway holds a Mattress IOU -Likely in Russia- they most assuredly don't want.

Even if you limit Ripple to only currencies, you have the same problem. Gateways do not necessarily want to hold IOU's from other Gateways. Other gateways may (and will) default, leaving other Gateways holding a bag of worthless currency IOU's.
But even if they don't default, Gateways have an incentive to dump as much IOU's in Ripple as they possible can and make redemption as hard they can get away with, because they directly benefit from IOU's that are never redeemed.

It directly perverts competition among business from being fast and efficient, to being as slow and inefficient as they can get away with.

Ripple fails through and through, and cannot be fixed.

TLDR
Most people that use Bitcoin hate Ripple because of the dishonesty of labelling themselves "open source" when they clearly aren't, as well as the centralized nature of the XRP currency.

I "hate" Ripple because it doesn't work and can't work, it's a waste of time and resources, and despite many people pointing out the basic economics that destroy Ripple, people are still buying into it and the only response we get from OpenCoin is handwaving.

Edit: Grammar/Wording

By their (dumb) fruits shall ye know them indeed...
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September 18, 2013, 02:53:45 PM
 #180

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What special news could the CTO of ZipZap be announcing? Well, considering they operate a global cash transaction network of 700,000 payment centers, perhaps they're going to be integrating with Ripple to become a massive multi-currency gateway?

http://www.thebitcointrader.com/2013/09/xrp-surges-nearly-300-in-just-over.html

You are a Ripple Zombie...
Who's desperate to get back even 50% of the money you invested at 6000 XRP/BTC back in the spring.

Even the Ripple Client... the very face of Ripple... has 234 outstanding Bug Reports on Github...
Could you imagine Steve Jobs releasing something like this?

https://github.com/ripple/ripple-client/issues?state=open

Does anyone think the server is in better shape? Or the API?
No one even knows if the core Ripple algorithms work or not.

OpenCoin is Hippie Central...
These guys got the best hydroponic weed on the fucking planet, baby...
And talk about "saving" migrant workers and subsistence level African farmers from their cubicles.

And where the fuck is Jed?

No serious company would ever run their business over the Ripple network...
At least not for a loooong time... we are talking a year or more.
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