New Physical Bitcoin: This Represents a New Standard Folks

[BTCINVESTOR]

To my knowledge, this is the first time that pictures of these coins have been released. I have been given permission to post these, so you guys looking now are the first to see them.

Look at this freshly minted 2BTC, 2oz silver coin with Adam Smith, father of modern economics:

Security Schematic: https://www.alitinmint.com/Images/Schematic.png



Heads:


Tails (Simulated Bitcoin Address):


Feedback welcome!

[r3wt]

Look at this freshly minted silver coin with Adam Smith, father of modern economics:

https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?ui=2&ik=b2fcef6cde&view=att&th=14129d79469179e0&attid=0.1&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P-BW6Q_6ld1nPm6JOUAHPm9&sadet=1379386647142&sads=zurJxHh_vcY5QWtDm0FWpdPERn0

Feedback welcome!

well genius, you might want to upload the picture somewhere people without Atilin email addresses can access

[BTCINVESTOR]

Oops. Wrong link. Sorry about that.

[r3wt]

Oops. Wrong link. Sorry about that.

Lol, no prob i figured it was probably an accident. good to see you are mature enough to handle sarcasm. i like you already.

[BTCINVESTOR]

Here it is:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/104034666/photo%20%2810%29.JPG

[r3wt]

Here it is:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/104034666/photo%20%2810%29.JPG

thats pretty badass man. nice job

[BTCINVESTOR]

I didn't make it actually. A friend of mine did.

[BTCINVESTOR]

He made 600 of these. They will have 2 BTC embedded along with 2 oz of fine silver. He is a presidential sculptor and only makes limited editions.

[BTCINVESTOR]

The coins will have the private key engraved on the edge of the coin which will be hidden completely by a tamper-proof case. A proprietary cipher system allows verification that the case matches the bitcoin address engraved on the tails side of the coin. No more cheesy holograms. The case will ensure the private key is hidden. All coin cases are signed and numbered by the artist. Case is custom made and is similar to other clear/tamper-proof cases seen with other collectible coins. Bitcoins embedded will be cold stored. You do not have to trust a central authority with these. Bury it in the ground and in 1000 years it will still be good!

[BTCINVESTOR]

A portion of each sale will be donated to the Bitcoin Foundation as well. These coins will be available at the next Bitcoin Conference in 2014. A limited amount of them will be available in November 2013 so if you are interested let me know and I will pass your info on. Remember, only 600 of these will ever be made in silver and this is the first coin and is a first edition. The artist is planning 50 different coins to be made over the next 3-4 years prior to the block reward reducing to 12.5 BTC.

[casascius]

No more cheesy holograms.

Are you suggesting you've successfully achieved unbreakable physical security?

When you engrave characters to metal, this changes the metal's shape, making the characters clearly readable with pretty much any sort of reflective radiation.  The tamper proof case may look great but what if tampering is unnecessary because any physician can take it to work and see through the case with medical imaging gear?  An engraved secret in a metal coin is also going to be vulnerable to magnetic imaging techniques.

You do not have to trust a central authority with these.

Not even the maker of the coin?

[BTCINVESTOR]

The case is made to obscure any form of radiation. The artist is actually a physician and is fully aware of that concern. (I specifically asked him about that myself.)

As far as the central authority you are correct, there is an initial trust factor, but in general, I am referring to the practice of having to continue to rely on a central authority to grant access to the private key (TitanBTC for example).

By the way, I have great respect for your work Mike. Thank you for what you have done for the bitcoin community. Your contributions have been substantial.

[casascius]

The coin looks great and I'm looking forward to see what you (and the artist, by extension) achieve!

[Littleshop]

The case is made to obscure any form of radiation. The artist is actually a physician and is fully aware of that concern. (I specifically asked him about that myself.)

Quite an achievement.  Many industries would be interested in this material.

[smoothie]

Just curious, what would happen if a sonogram/spectrogram was used on the case (or a similar device) to gain access to the private key on the edge?

BTW I love the artwork.  

Is the coin 2 oz or 2 troy oz?

Not being able to hold just the coin itself without revealing the private key will make it difficult to assay the coin for the claimed silver content in weight and purity (if I am imagining the case enclosing the coin correctly). This indeed may present an issue.

All forms of physical coins (that I am aware of) have the ability to be held, weighed, and tested for the claimed metal content. This may pose an interesting issue for someone wanting to verify this.

[BTCINVESTOR]

Good questions.

They are 2 Troy oz coins.

As far as weighing them, I am told there are excellent (and relatively easy) techniques to assess the weight even when the coin is in the case. Most collectible coins that are highly valued are encased in tamper proof casing and it is common practice to analyze them even while in their cases. With that said, the coins can certainly be removed from the case, but as with any coins, physical bitcoins or otherwise, doing so certainly diminishes the value.

My understanding is that the private key is obscured somehow. I don't know if there is a metal ring around the coin (inside the case) to block attempts to scan the coin or what. I am told that the private key is laser engraved to be very small and would not be readable with typical imaging equipment. I suppose it's possible that MIT or NASA has some device that could get past the protections, but for the purposes of coin security for the average person, this system seems very trustworthy to me.

I doubt there are 100% perfect security systems anywhere in the world, and current examples of physical bitcoins are far from foolproof. The intent of most security systems tends to be to dissuade counterfeiters or thieves from making the attempt in the first place. In addition, the expense of utilizing a sophisticated imaging modality to lift the private key will likely be cost prohibitive for a very long time, far outweighing the value of the coin in the first place (just a guess). With that said, I realize that anyone manufacturing coins like these should take into consideration that bitcoins could be worth tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in the future, and that what would seem to be good security now could be foiled in years to come with the right financial incentive.

The nice thing about these coins is the high end artwork and architecture. This is a coin that even the numismatists of the world would appreciate and love to own and that has been a huge goal of the artist. They will be some of the rarest and highest quality physical bitcoins made in this era of crypto-currency.

[smoothie]

Good questions.

They are 2 Troy oz coins.

As far as weighing them, I am told there are excellent (and relatively easy) techniques to assess the weight even when the coin is in the case. Most collectible coins that are highly valued are encased in tamper proof casing and it is common practice to analyze them even while in their cases. With that said, the coins can certainly be removed from the case, but as with any coins, physical bitcoins or otherwise, doing so certainly diminishes the value.

My understanding is that the private key is obscured somehow. I don't know if there is a metal ring around the coin (inside the case) to block attempts to scan the coin or what. I am told that the private key is laser engraved to be very small and would not be readable with typical imaging equipment. I suppose it's possible that MIT or NASA has some device that could get past the protections, but for the purposes of coin security for the average person, this system seems very trustworthy to me.

I doubt there are 100% perfect security systems anywhere in the world, and current examples of physical bitcoins are far from foolproof. The intent of most security systems tends to be to dissuade counterfeiters or thieves from making the attempt in the first place. In addition, the expense of utilizing a sophisticated imaging modality to lift the private key will likely be cost prohibitive for a very long time, far outweighing the value of the coin in the first place (just a guess). With that said, I realize that anyone manufacturing coins like these should take into consideration that bitcoins could be worth tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in the future, and that what would seem to be good security now could be foiled in years to come with the right financial incentive.

The nice thing about these coins is the high end artwork and architecture. This is a coin that even the numismatists of the world would appreciate and love to own and that has been a huge goal of the artist. They will be some of the rarest and highest quality physical bitcoins made in this era of crypto-currency.

Thanks for the prompt response.

You addressed the weight issue (which I believe there are mechanisms for getting the weight with traditional coin cases). But with a non-standard/proprietary encasing which I presume is what is proposed to be used for securing this coin (given it is a different type of security that is needed from traditional coins in cases) I am curious to know how it is planned to verify weight with this different type of encasing. I trust that the creator of this coin would not go down that road of putting less silver than is supposed to be in the coin.

You did not address the point of purity testing of the coins. Do you know if the case will allow for direct contact with the coin to do purity tests? If not, this can be a problem as users/collectors will not be able to verify for themselves the actual purity and will need to rely on the printed/stamped assay on the coin or a COA from the mint itself stating that it is indeed .999 fine silver.

Traditional coins have always allowed for at the very least a purity test from my personal experience.

[SaltySpitoon]

Any idea what the pricing for said coins will be?

[pikeadz]

The coins look nice, but I actually prefer cheesy holograms to engraved metal.  Will you consider switching at some point?

[mechs]

The case is made to obscure any form of radiation. The artist is actually a physician and is fully aware of that concern. (I specifically asked him about that myself.)

Quite an achievement.  Many industries would be interested in this material.

It called lead.  Not that novel.