Constructive (!) criticism on the merit system

[Neelix]

Hello everybody,

i closely reviewed the new merit system now and figured out what might go wrong in the future.
A quote from theymos' official merit announcement:

You get merit points when someone sends you some for one of your posts. Additionally, when someone sends you merit points, half of those points can be sent by you to other people.

This means, the amount of merits gets less over time. Example: User A send 5 merits to user B, who is now able to send 2.5 merit to user C, who is now able to send 1.25 merit to user D... and so on until zero merits are left.

This circumstance gets "solved" by this feature:

Certain users are designated as "merit sources". They can create new merit out of nothing, up to a limited number per month (which differs per source). I will not be posting a definitive list of merit sources (so that people don't bug them too much), though you'll soon figure out who they are if you pay Attention.

So, basically the ability of enhancing low ranked accounts is sticked to a small number of (hopefully socially advanced) users from the forum. Since everything here is about decentralization and giving the power back to the community, i think this is some kind of hoax.

As stated in the title, this is only a criticism in the hope of developping the system further. I really appreciate the new system since quality posts seem to be rare here.

[1715390938]

1715390938

[Maum]

That is made to prevent from abusing the merit system.
Example: One had two alt accounts A and B, and each of them had 10 initial sMerits. He would send between the two account the 10 Merits. A would recieve 10 Merits and 10 sMerits and could send to account B 20 Merits. Account B would recieve 20 Merits and 20 sMerits and would have 30 Merits and 20 sMerits and so on. So, if it wouldn't decrease, he could send between the accounts infinite Merits.
To let the merits grow, several sources are implemented.
So it is an ingeniously constructed system.

[Jet Cash]

So, basically the ability of enhancing low ranked accounts is sticked to a small number of (hopefully socially advanced) users from the forum. Since everything here is about decentralization and giving the power back to the community, i think this is some kind of hoax.

You have missed te fact that merits awarded by merit sources generate sMerits for the person receiving the award to give out.

[magpie_lover]

So, basically the ability of enhancing low ranked accounts is sticked to a small number of (hopefully socially advanced) users from the forum.

 Quite possible that the low quality posters or shitposters may get stuck in their current ranks forever, yet the system gives the right incentives to improve their "social" and "writing" skills.

Since everything here is about decentralization and giving the power back to the community, i think this is some kind of hoax.

An assumption that "community" is primarily made of low ranked accounts. IMO, high-rank member contributions are easily bigger than that of the low-rank members overall in this forum, hence the former category should hold higher stakes within the community.

[athanz88]

Hello everybody,

i closely reviewed the new merit system now and figured out what might go wrong in the future.
A quote from theymos' official merit announcement:

You get merit points when someone sends you some for one of your posts. Additionally, when someone sends you merit points, half of those points can be sent by you to other people.

This means, the amount of merits gets less over time. Example: User A send 5 merits to user B, who is now able to send 2.5 merit to user C, who is now able to send 1.25 merit to user D... and so on until zero merits are left.

This circumstance gets "solved" by this feature:

Certain users are designated as "merit sources". They can create new merit out of nothing, up to a limited number per month (which differs per source). I will not be posting a definitive list of merit sources (so that people don't bug them too much), though you'll soon figure out who they are if you pay Attention.

So, basically the ability of enhancing low ranked accounts is sticked to a small number of (hopefully socially advanced) users from the forum. Since everything here is about decentralization and giving the power back to the community, i think this is some kind of hoax.

As stated in the title, this is only a criticism in the hope of developping the system further. I really appreciate the new system since quality posts seem to be rare here.

You are missing the point like what Jet Cash has said, and plus we dont know how much "limited numbers" does a source has per month, because from what i have seen now the top merit giver is already gave 972 merits. If we to assume that legendary ranks got 500 sMerits from their rank ( and i bet is lower than 500), then this no 1 giver already spent 472 merits from his/her/it source's points, and there are 57 merit sources up till this day.
The only reason i can think of for the low count of merit circulation is that there are not much people who has a high quality understanding and post for this forums, thats is why all the ranking up process slowed or stopped.

[shushanika]

This means, the amount of merits gets less over time. Example: User A send 5 merits to user B, who is now able to send 2.5 merit to user C, who is now able to send 1.25 merit to user D... and so on until zero merits are left.
As stated in the title, this is only a criticism in the hope of developping the system further. I really appreciate the new system since quality posts seem to be rare here.

Only if you read the complete post there carefully. There are merit sources who get some merits to spend per month. There is no shortage of merit points and changes are being made as well. For instance, the admin is adding more merit sources. I suggest you to read the responses in the official thread as well: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.0

[Neelix]

That is made to prevent from abusing the merit system.
Example: One had two alt accounts A and B, and each of them had 10 initial sMerits. He would send between the two account the 10 Merits. A would recieve 10 Merits and 10 sMerits and could send to account B 20 Merits. Account B would recieve 20 Merits and 20 sMerits and would have 30 Merits and 20 sMerits and so on. So, if it wouldn't decrease, he could send between the accounts infinite Merits.
To let the merits grow, several sources are implemented.
So it is an ingeniously constructed system.

It's mandatory to secure that no one can give himself infinite merits, but there should be another way how to do it.

So, basically the ability of enhancing low ranked accounts is sticked to a small number of (hopefully socially advanced) users from the forum. Since everything here is about decentralization and giving the power back to the community, i think this is some kind of hoax.

You have missed te fact that merits awarded by merit sources generate sMerits for the person receiving the award to give out.

Actually i didn't miss it; but since the amount of merits gets lower everytime they are sent, we come back to my very first point.

You are missing the point like what Jet Cash has said, and plus we dont know how much "limited numbers" does a source has per month, because from what i have seen now the top merit giver is already gave 972 merits. If we to assume that legendary ranks got 500 sMerits from their rank ( and i bet is lower than 500), then this no 1 giver already spent 472 merits from his/her/it source's points, and there are 57 merit sources up till this day.
The only reason i can think of for the low count of merit circulation is that there are not much people who has a high quality understanding and post for this forums, thats is why all the ranking up process slowed or stopped.

I am totally ok with shitposter getting stuck with their rank, this is the purpose of the whole system and i really like it!

Just to be clear: the main factor i want to discuss is giving a small number of users the ability to "rank up" other members.
Probably most of them are suitable for this exercise, but how can we be sure?

I suggest the following:

Code:

User A is Senior Member, having 250 Merit. 
He also has 250 sMerit to send, but can only send as much as he received by other users. 
Additionally, only 1 sMerit per day and user can be sent. 
(Maybe it should be restricted to merit one user more than once a week to be sure that no one can farm his own sMerit from alt accounts) 

Just an idea!

[galkina]

Actually i didn't miss it; but since the amount of merits gets lower everytime they are sent, we come back to my very first point.

Merit sources get some merits to spend every month. I think admin will increase the merit sources if needed. However, creating abundance of merits will not be a good idea. The system is designed in a way that with time, it will be very hard for spammers to survive here. The merits will revolve only among users who are here for contributing quality posts and want this forum to be full of useful resources.