[CLOSED*]R1B: HashFast Baby Jet Upgrade Promo - DZ MC Round 1. Batch 1. Mahalo!

[philipma1957]

never fear phil is here.

 i got your ups in hand and your psu in hand. do not buy anything. I got a used perfectly good sea sonic 1000 watt platinum and I have good ups the eatons in 3 or 4 sizes. .   if we ever get the gear I have the parts we need.
all quality all half price .  we can meet on route 9 in NJ halfway between Howell and staten Island.

[firsttimeuser]

DZ supposed to have another email from hf about refunds and we should make a decision based on their new f@#$% refund policy..
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4206216#msg4206216

[thomas_s]

DZ supposed to have another email from hf about refunds and we should make a decision based on their new f@#$% refund policy..
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4206216#msg4206216

I read that also, it seems that they aren't able to do current BTC / USD conversions at the time of refund based on their email as they need you to acknowledge this

[filharvey]

Well, I guess we should start talking about what everyone wants to do. And then put it all to a vote.

But I would like to see some calculations on what 1 share could be possibly worth, compared to what a refund would get us.

Also if people do vote for a refund, could we possibly get more for it if we take it and auction it off?

Phil

[BeepBeep2]

Well, I guess we should start talking about what everyone wants to do. And then put it all to a vote.

But I would like to see some calculations on what 1 share could be possibly worth, compared to what a refund would get us.

Also if people do vote for a refund, could we possibly get more for it if we take it and auction it off?

Phil

Hey guys. Sorry for disappearing.
This is total BS on HashFast. I also wish we wouldn't have paid in BTC. I was a bit reluctant to give up all my BTC and now I'm really regretting it.

I hate the $#&* refund policy they are now coming up with but I'm not surprised. At least we get back what fiat it would have been when we "spent it" on the purchase date. People make these kinds of "mistakes" all the time anyway...I know I'm kicking myself for selling 130 LTC when it was $2.80, or 11 BTC when it was $18.

If they aren't going to do a "full refund" (we paid in BTC and we deserve it back IMHO) and the thing will get here in less than a week, I say we mine it.

If we paid in BTC I guess we had to expect them to convert that to USD immediately at the time...USD can be spent on most everything while BTC can't. It's just like if the price plummeted from $130 / BTC to $13 again, we probably wouldn't be like (HEY GIVE US 10X BTC BACK LOL) but in that case I think we would be fair and expect only the BTC we spent.

It's HashFast's lost IMHO they should honor full refunds.

[BeepBeep2]

But then again...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4209084#msg4209084
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270363.msg2894478#msg2894478

and

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4207245#msg4207245

and

https://hashfast.com/miner-protection-program/

We have MPP right?
"The Miner Protection Program™ was given retroactively to ALL purchases of Batch 1 Baby Jets."

So we really bought 4 Baby Jets, except the other three won't come until probably...May?

Also, in the new email, we are given 15 days to seek a refund. But the original terms of sale lists 3 months.

"3.       DELIVERY AND QUANTITIES.

(a)     Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates – Batch 1.  All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by December 31, 2013.  If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and Hashfast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer’s request and Hashfast will provide a refund for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled.  This cancellation and refund is Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy for Hashfast failing to deliver by theDecember 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date.  To avail itself of this remedy, Buyer must cancel the order before such unit(s) are delivered by Hashfast, and in any case before March 31, 2014."

If we don't accept the terms of the email (take an 85% loss?) and seek a refund within 15 days, they could deliver it on March 31st and we would have no fight against it.

[philipma1957]

But then again...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4209084#msg4209084
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270363.msg2894478#msg2894478

and

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4207245#msg4207245

and

https://hashfast.com/miner-protection-program/

We have MPP right?
"The Miner Protection Program™ was given retroactively to ALL purchases of Batch 1 Baby Jets."

So we really bought 4 Baby Jets, except the other three won't come until probably...May?

Also, in the new email, we are given 15 days to seek a refund. But the original terms of sale lists 3 months.

"3.       DELIVERY AND QUANTITIES.

(a)     Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates – Batch 1.  All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by December 31, 2013.  If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and Hashfast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer’s request and Hashfast will provide a refund for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled.  This cancellation and refund is Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy for Hashfast failing to deliver by theDecember 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date.  To avail itself of this remedy, Buyer must cancel the order before such unit(s) are delivered by Hashfast, and in any case before March 31, 2014."

If we don't accept the terms of the email (take an 85% loss?) and seek a refund within 15 days, they could deliver it on March 31st and we would have no fight against it.

First off until some court some where in the world decides that fiat is NOT converted into fiat magically at point of sale to fiat the loss is 0 in fiat.   As of today every country in the world that charges taxes will use a BTC to fiat or a fiat to btc conversion to determine  the value.  the day we sent DZcoop our btc it was magically convert to cash/fiat about 150 usd a share.  this is a world wide law and if someone wins the case that btc should  be 1 to 1 it will be a first.

   Now if I recall I have 192 dollars invested in this 150 and then a 42 upgrade.  I do not mind any decision made since I am far enough ahead that 192 usd is not a big deal   yeah maybe it was .6 btc I do not remember.   But if someone has a lot of btc/usd in this  i.e. a lot of shares  I do not want that person to be screwed .   I do not think any lawyer would take a case for btc to btc and I think it is impossible to win.   But I have a degree in accounting not law. so WTF do I know.

 

[thomas_s]

But then again...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4209084#msg4209084
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270363.msg2894478#msg2894478

and

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4207245#msg4207245

and

https://hashfast.com/miner-protection-program/

We have MPP right?
"The Miner Protection Program™ was given retroactively to ALL purchases of Batch 1 Baby Jets."

So we really bought 4 Baby Jets, except the other three won't come until probably...May?

Also, in the new email, we are given 15 days to seek a refund. But the original terms of sale lists 3 months.

"3.       DELIVERY AND QUANTITIES.

(a)     Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates – Batch 1.  All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by December 31, 2013.  If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and Hashfast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer’s request and Hashfast will provide a refund for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled.  This cancellation and refund is Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy for Hashfast failing to deliver by theDecember 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date.  To avail itself of this remedy, Buyer must cancel the order before such unit(s) are delivered by Hashfast, and in any case before March 31, 2014."

If we don't accept the terms of the email (take an 85% loss?) and seek a refund within 15 days, they could deliver it on March 31st and we would have no fight against it.

First off until some court some where in the world decides that fiat is NOT converted into fiat magically at point of sale to fiat the loss is 0 in fiat.   As of today every country in the world that charges taxes will use a BTC to fiat or a fiat to btc conversion to determine  the value.  the day we sent DZcoop our btc it was magically convert to cash/fiat about 150 usd a share.  this is a world wide law and if someone wins the case that btc should  be 1 to 1 it will be a first.

   Now if I recall I have 192 dollars invested in this 150 and then a 42 upgrade.  I do not mind any decision made since I am far enough ahead that 192 usd is not a big deal   yeah maybe it was .6 btc I do not remember.   But if someone has a lot of btc/usd in this  i.e. a lot of shares  I do not want that person to be screwed .   I do not think any lawyer would take a case for btc to btc and I think it is impossible to win.   But I have a degree in accounting not law. so WTF do I know.

 

A quick re-read of the terms that came with the invoices says that the refund would be issued in the form of payment (forgot the exact words and don't have it open) also on the invoice it states "Payment: 100% BTC"

[DyslexicZombei]

never fear phil is here.

 i got your ups in hand and your psu in hand. do not buy anything. I got a used perfectly good sea sonic 1000 watt platinum and I have good ups the eatons in 3 or 4 sizes. .   if we ever get the gear I have the parts we need.
all quality all half price .  we can meet on route 9 in NJ halfway between Howell and staten Island.

Thanks Philip!

Glad I mentioned it publicly. Hate throwing more money after bad money, if you catch mah drift.  

[trout]

It seems that if we ask for a refund they will try to make us sign some sort of forfeit of all ulterior claims (i.e., we are happy with the refund):

Next, our customer service team will deliver you the necessary documents to complete the refund request, which you will need to sign and return to us.

Which is unlawful and which we don't want.

This crap won't be easy.

[BeepBeep2]

Philip, the initial buy in was something like 1.55 BTC, not .6 BTC...

While I agree that $200 is not THAT MUCH, when HashFast started this out, they were leaning toward full BTC refunds, one person even has an email where HashFast got back to him (after a short delay, to go up the chain) saying that refunds paid in BTC would be in full...

eceived: by 10.194.138.199 with SMTP id qs7csp90853wjb;
        Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.236.45.102 with SMTP id o66mr196684yhb.13.1376696316262;
        Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <bitpaysupport@hashfast.com>

Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for your patience while I got the answer for you, I greatly appreciate it.

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

I hope that helps and hope you have a good weekend!

Thanks,
Cara

Plus stuff like this...
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4213062#msg4213062

Plus you had cypherdoc mention that (at least HE thought,) they were holding all the BTC until the end of the year in the event that they did not deliver:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270363.msg2894478#msg2894478

they want only those committed to leaving their BTC with HashFast until the end of the year.  if they fail to deliver, they have said they will give full refunds in BTC.

again, anything i say here needs to be confirmed by the officials of the company.

I'm not saying there is all that much basis for a legal battle, but..."wtf" kind of comes up in the head.

[thomas_s]

Philip, the initial buy in was something like 1.55 BTC, not .6 BTC...

While I agree that $200 is not THAT MUCH, when HashFast started this out, they were leaning toward full BTC refunds, one person even has an email where HashFast got back to him (after a short delay, to go up the chain) saying that refunds paid in BTC would be in full...

eceived: by 10.194.138.199 with SMTP id qs7csp90853wjb;
        Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.236.45.102 with SMTP id o66mr196684yhb.13.1376696316262;
        Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <bitpaysupport@hashfast.com>

Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for your patience while I got the answer for you, I greatly appreciate it.

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

I hope that helps and hope you have a good weekend!

Thanks,
Cara

Plus stuff like this...
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4213062#msg4213062

Plus you had cypherdoc mention that (at least HE thought,) they were holding all the BTC until the end of the year in the event that they did not deliver:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270363.msg2894478#msg2894478

they want only those committed to leaving their BTC with HashFast until the end of the year.  if they fail to deliver, they have said they will give full refunds in BTC.

again, anything i say here needs to be confirmed by the officials of the company.

I'm not saying there is all that much basis for a legal battle, but..."wtf" kind of comes up in the head.

My thoughts are everyone is happy with a full BTC refund if possible? Minus fee's incurred in the process of getting it? (Total paid was a bit over 58 BTC if I'm not mistaken)

[BeepBeep2]

My thoughts are everyone is happy with a full BTC refund if possible? Minus fee's incurred in the process of getting it? (Total paid was a bit over 58 BTC if I'm not mistaken)

They aren't doing that anymore. We will get a refund probably much closer to 14 BTC by agreeing to current terms...

[firsttimeuser]

so we are giving up fighting and accepting 85% loss?

[thomas_s]

Our plan is to still fight it, as they stated tho refusing the package still fulfills their end of the deal. Worst case false advertising as 400 watts is different from 450watts.

[philipma1957]

like I said in usd I lost 192-200 on this. 1 share and a upgrade. so my say is small.  but this company has been classic bfl all the way.  which means we will lose no matter what we do.  So for my small share I rather get this over as soon as possible and move on to other things. but if you have 10 shares and missed out on r5+r6 yeah I hear you.
  whatever you guys want to do go for it.

[firsttimeuser]

Our plan is to still fight it, as they stated tho refusing the package still fulfills their end of the deal. Worst case false advertising as 400 watts is different from 450watts.

I am a little drunk now.. but this link might be interesting in terms of fight
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=392977.0

my off topic says Good Luck to you and to those who you wish the same
oh.. 2014

[firsttimeuser]

If R1 and R2 Baby Jets don't arrive by Dec. 31, I'm immediately filing for a refund at 10PM Hawaii Standard Time on Dec. 31 (which corresponds to midnight on the West Coast where HF is located) so that we're at the front of any refund queue.

If they do manage to get this shipped before year's end, let's hope the MPP chips aren't far behind because those MPP chips were *originally* scheduled for the beginning of February (assuming Batch 1 was in our hands at the beginning of November).

No miner in hand, no trucking number, no emails.
Jan 1st 2014

[philipma1957]

If R1 and R2 Baby Jets don't arrive by Dec. 31, I'm immediately filing for a refund at 10PM Hawaii Standard Time on Dec. 31 (which corresponds to midnight on the West Coast where HF is located) so that we're at the front of any refund queue.

If they do manage to get this shipped before year's end, let's hope the MPP chips aren't far behind because those MPP chips were *originally* scheduled for the beginning of February (assuming Batch 1 was in our hands at the beginning of November).

No miner in hand, no trucking number, no emails.
Jan 1st 2014

so lets hope they send a refund and don't skip town.

[DyslexicZombei]

Can't say how yet, but we're fighting this free proctology exam (AKA changed refund terms) tooth and nail.