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Author Topic: consulting about an idea insurance for bitcoin fall  (Read 198 times)
yair24
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February 17, 2018, 07:35:35 PM
Last edit: June 02, 2018, 12:09:54 PM by yair24
 #1

Update:

We have telegram group for discussion this idea:

please join if you have something to say and want to talk:

https://t.me/bitsure



hello,

I want to talk about an idea that I have, the idea involves Bitcoin, Insurance and new token named "fortulatoken".

the fortulatoken already exists. the story of the fortulatoken is a very strange story. I was in a bitcoin discussion group in facebook when I crossed a post of a guy that tells "whoever will give me his ethereum wallet address I will send him a random number of my own tokens". people ignored his post and nobody answered him. But I asked him "wait a second I give you my wallet address and you put inside it tokens?" here is my wallet address. and I wrote the address.

a few minutes later I found the tokens and then we keep talking and became friends so he gave me a lot of fortulatokens. to be presise he gave me 50,000,000,000 tokens.

The only problem is that nobody knows about fortulatokens so my 50 miliard tokens basicaly worth 0 USD or 0 Ethereum or 0 of everything.
so what we want to do is to give value to those tokens.

And the idea we have is to open an insurance company that will insure a bitcoin fall of over 50%.
That means whoever buy a defense from such falling will receive an amount of ethereum or fortulacoin that will be worth an amount that we will set.

for example the amount can be 500$.

if the bitcoin falls 50% or bigger fall we pay whoever be signed up in our system 500$ in ethereum (or fortulatoken).

of course this service will cost a price just like buying an insurance.

or if you want to call it "a put option on the bitcoin" but less complicated. the amount we pay per customer will be constant.

so this is the idea.

and with this idea we want to start our fortulatoken movement.

we already have a few people that told us they will agree to pay 2$ per year for a 500$ defence if bitcoin falls more then 50%.

Think for yourself will you pay 2$ per year for such a defence?

of course that if we have too many customers and the bitcoin will fall a 2$ will not cover our lost.
so we have to think more accurately about this model and at first the number of customers will be limited so even if there is a falling in the bitcoin we will not go bankrupcy.

if you like this idea and you have questions or comments please write them here. I would love to hear thoughts about this.

if you want to invest please invest but not too big amounts please invest only what you can lose. because this idea might still have some problems and also because in general the statistics of new companies are 1 out of 10 success and the other 9 fails.

and we are very new.


A little about ourselfs:

I can tell that we are very honest people.
currently we are two and we might grow in the future.
we will need to consult people that understand insuurance better then us and this cost money.

we hope to start making a movement to our coin which is tradeble in a bourse names "Etherdelta"

in this link:

https://etherdelta.com/#0x0309a014757361bdd5807fb11710542cc815bd8b-ETH

we have a bonus plan for the first 100 investors that will invest 10$ worth of ethereum in our project.
the bonus will be a percentage of the amount of fortulatokens you bought and we will also have to decide what that percentage will be set to.

we have a roadmap
it is here:


http://cryptorotate.com/roadmap.php


So thats it.
Hope to hear your opinions.


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February 17, 2018, 07:40:46 PM
Merited by krishnaverma (1)
 #2

Insurance usually involves big numbers and with the huge volatility swings that the bitcoin can do. You have a potential of everyone cashing in their insurance at once. Would you have the capital to cover all those claims? You also have to think about growing the insurance payment that people give you so that it can be used to pay future insurance claims. You're going to need at least two things. A mathematician guy who can run the numbers for you. Letting you how many people you can cover at what kind of risk to your capital. Another investment guy to take those insurance payments and grow it to cover insurance claims.

Here is a summary of what would be involved:
Basics of starting a insurance agency
https://insureonsolutions.com/resources/agency-management-tips/how-to-start-an-insurance-agency

What is involved in underwriting an insurance:
Gives a good idea of how different forms of insurance is underwritten
https://www.ceclass.com/164.pdf

How to calculate what kind of insurance premium you should charge:
http://www.upet.ro/annals/economics/pdf/2012/part2/Achim-2.pdf

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yair24
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February 17, 2018, 07:44:44 PM
 #3

thank you for that Smiley
Do you want to participate?
you sounds like a mathematician to me Smiley

of course we have the funds we have a lot lot lot of fortulatokens Smiley
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February 17, 2018, 09:50:31 PM
 #4

Just so that I understand your business proposal, I would go over your example here.

I bought $1000.00 worth of bitcoin.  Say it is 0.1 BTC.
I buy a policy with you for $2.00 for 12 months of protection.

I hold on to that and one day, it dips to $500.00.

Now I could claim a loss against my policy and you validate that I had 0.1 BTC and the current BTC price is 50% of my purchase price.

I lost only $2.00 policy premium.

Now a set of questions for you.
Whether there are many customers or just one, the math has to make sense.

How will you cover that $498.00 difference?

How will you determine that a claim is valid?  E.g. with the BTC price being so volatile, the price could touch $500.00 and then rise back up.  How will be consider this?
What if BTC price drops below $500.00?  I'm assuming that your coverage is limited to $500.00.

If you can answer how you could cover the $498.00 loss, I for one would be interested it digging further.

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February 18, 2018, 03:49:29 AM
 #5

Just so that I understand your business proposal, I would go over your example here.

I bought $1000.00 worth of bitcoin.  Say it is 0.1 BTC.
I buy a policy with you for $2.00 for 12 months of protection.

I hold on to that and one day, it dips to $500.00.

Now I could claim a loss against my policy and you validate that I had 0.1 BTC and the current BTC price is 50% of my purchase price.

I lost only $2.00 policy premium.

Now a set of questions for you.
Whether there are many customers or just one, the math has to make sense.

How will you cover that $498.00 difference?

How will you determine that a claim is valid?  E.g. with the BTC price being so volatile, the price could touch $500.00 and then rise back up.  How will be consider this?
What if BTC price drops below $500.00?  I'm assuming that your coverage is limited to $500.00.

If you can answer how you could cover the $498.00 loss, I for one would be interested it digging further.




Actualy you dont have to buy the bitcoin to get my insurance. You can just pay me 2$ and i will start counting a year. In that year i will follow the bitcoin price. Every time it goes up i will remember the highest value of it. Snd display it in the company website.

So there will be two values displayed:

The highest value of bitcoin in USD
and a 50% of that value.

And in everyone account there will be an expired date 1 year from the date thst he paid the 2$.

If within that period the bitcoin touch the 50% value everyone that has a non expired account will get 500$.

In order to do that i need investors start buying my token in exchange to etheteum. But thats easy because its very cheap now. And the only seller is me and my partner pablo.

As soon as we get to 1000$ ethereum investment we will be able to sell our first insurance. Only to 1 customer.
I belive that when we reach 1500$ ethereum we will be able to sell our 2nd insurance to our 2nd customer.

We then take 1000$ ethereum and convert it to real USD.
in that way we will always have the 500$ to pay our customers if the bitcoin falls 50%.

Why dont you be the 1st investor in this?

But please again only invest what you can fully lose.

Because after all it is still just an idea.
We dont even have a nice website like all nice websites of all the ideas that rise today every day in the internet...

We need a nice website.
We need a whitepaper.
We need investors to buy our fortulatokens.
Im not sure that we need sn insurance expert because i dont see any problems with what i just wrote here.

If you see any problem let me know.

And if you want you can be listed as our first waiting customer willing to pay us 2$ a year for a 500$ protection against bitcoin fall of 50% or more.

When we have our 1st 500$ in ethereum we will let you know.

If you want that then please provide me with your details and i put it in a google spreadsheet. I need email address and name. Maybe more im not sure...

You will be #1 in line.

BTW all the numbers that i put here are estimations. We will need to think of them again and maybe we will change them.

Yair.
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February 20, 2018, 08:36:05 PM
 #6

Your current tokens have ZERO value. Tomorrow if BTC crashes by 50% and you have to pay out $498/customer, how will you get those USD? You say youwill give your coins, but the value of your tokens is ZILCH.

What you are trying to do is sorta binary options. But you don't seem to have faint idea of how they work.

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February 20, 2018, 10:40:42 PM
 #7

Your current tokens have ZERO value. Tomorrow if BTC crashes by 50% and you have to pay out $498/customer, how will you get those USD? You say youwill give your coins, but the value of your tokens is ZILCH.

What you are trying to do is sorta binary options. But you don't seem to have faint idea of how they work.
He can still assure that thing that he can pay up since hes quiet confident that the price wont easily crash out back 50%. Come to think off that insurance do worth $2 which is really a dust amount but when people tends to get this insurance matter and accumulate then it would really be a big amount and come to think off that it do have a 1 year expiry then its quiet an easy money for them to accumulate and even myself wont really believe on such crash on price going back 50%.Its possible but on rare cases for sure but once it hits the threshold and paying up lots of costumers for sure it would be pain in the ass on giving out $500/each.



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February 21, 2018, 03:37:24 AM
 #8

Already a solution for this
https://www.lode.one/

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yair24
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February 21, 2018, 10:06:12 AM
 #9

Your current tokens have ZERO value. Tomorrow if BTC crashes by 50% and you have to pay out $498/customer, how will you get those USD? You say youwill give your coins, but the value of your tokens is ZILCH.

What you are trying to do is sorta binary options. But you don't seem to have faint idea of how they work.


please don't be so sure you are right.
you can call this a binary options.

We call it an insurance or a "put option" that does not work exactly as put options works.
and believe me, We know a little bit of what we are trying to do here.
and we tell here only the truth even if we don't know something we are willing to admit it its not a shame not to know everything.
and we are always open to hear another opinions.

again we will tell our idea. and we will add some more because we were busy doing some mathematics in the last few days.
and also we will add here an offer.

But currently the offer is not yet obligation which means We can still cancel it and you can still cancel it. even if ppl say they want to participate.
only after we agree will agree that its ok and accepted by everyone and until we will see here 100 investors. only then the offer will become a contract.
the risk is very low because the amount of investment will be very low.

so we are talking about investment for long term and about a price that we can all allow ourself to lose. ok?

the investment will be only 1$ worth of ethereum. (or maybe higher if the transfer of ethereum commision will kill this invetment...)

1$ should give you 10,000 fortulatokens.

but the first 100 that will invest will get additional 5000 fortulatokens from us as a bonus. for their 1$

At the end of this process, every investor will have 15,000 fortulatokens and we will have 100$ of Ethereum invstment money.

and we will go to the next phase.

The next phase will be to give only 4000 fortula as bonus and the next phase will be to give 3000 and 2000 and 1000.



Everytime that we will raise 500$ (or more I am not suer yet) of ETHEREUM not fortulatoken (!!!) we will be able to receive another customer that will pay us 2 or maybe 3$ for the right to receive from us a 500$ if the bitcoin will fall within a year from his account opening with us.


so this is the offer.
and please if you see any problems here let me know I will be happy to hear about it.


Another thing that I want to mention is that we make every effort we can in order to give value to this token including many ideas and many phone calls to many people that has their own ideas.
We don't know how but we can tell you all. there are two people that makes every effort they can to give value to this coin and the two people are me and Pablo who created this token.

if you also have ideas and you want to use our token please let us know here. we are willing to hear and if we like your idea and believe in it, we will be able to sell a big amount of our fortulatoken for a low price. for you to make your idea come true. and even to help you with it.

but this will happen only if we will see that you are a nice person full with good energies that has an idea that we love. and want to invest in.

Thanks
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February 21, 2018, 07:00:29 PM
Merited by Vod (1)
 #10

so lets look at this logically

someone gives you $2
if bitcoin falls 50% you give them $500
so you insurance scheme will pay out at odds of 249/1

well if you had started this at the beginning of year, you would already have lost all your money.
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February 22, 2018, 02:46:17 AM
 #11

so lets look at this logically

someone gives you $2
if bitcoin falls 50% you give them $500
so you insurance scheme will pay out at odds of 249/1

well if you had started this at the beginning of year, you would already have lost all your money.


You have to understand something, I know it sounds unbelivable but we dont care if the bitcoin falls 50% or not. The only thing we do care is that at any time period we will have a 500$ per each registered and non expired customer that we have.

So let me show you an example.

Suppose there are ppl that start to invest. Lets say 100 ppl buy 10000 of our token. Now we have 100$ but we cant accept any customer yet. So we wait some more time.
And now we arrive to 500$ because more investors arrived.

Now we can accept our first customer.
He will pay us 2$ and now he has a full year that he will get 500$ if the bitcoin will fall 50%


And i beleive that also now our fortulatoken start to trade because people bought it.
So now it warth something.

We still have a lot of that fortulatoken. So we start selling to the market. Of course we will do that responsibly. We will write in the website how many we sold and we will not sell until the value drops. we just feed the demand of investors. And this will also give us money.
Lets say it gave us another 700$
So we can accept another customer. And we still have a free 200$ + 4$ = 204$

Lets say the bitcoin falls 50% we pay them the 500$ each and we still have the 204$ which we got from them and from our fortulatokens we sold when there was a demand.

So we can accept more customers.

But now it should be much easier.

Because we have now a good reputation we are honest. The bitcoin had a 50% fall and we actualy paid our 2 customers.

Will they come back?  Yes
Will they tell all their friends?  Yes
Will they agree now to pay 3$ instead of 2$ because premia rised? Probably yes.
Will they and their friends will invest again in our fortulatokens? Maybe.

We cannot speculate what will happen next.

Lets arrive that point and see.

Soon there will be a nice website for our project.
And we start the investment program.

So i suggest that anyone that want to participate start writing here "I want to participate" so he can have his place hold for him to be in the first 100 that entitled the 50% bonus.

Again its a 1$ investment that gives first 100 investors a 10,000 fortulatokens + additional 5000 fortulatokens as a bonus and it still not an obligation if you write your nane here.

It will be an obligation when we start the program.

Currently its still an experiment.

Pablo & Yair.

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June 02, 2018, 07:21:04 AM
 #12

Ok so in the last few month I have been thinking of this idea and I decided to continue with it.

There are a few changes in the concept
it will not be a 500$ insurance but a 0.5 ETH insurance. (I belive it will be much easier in terms of IRS and staff...) it will not cost 2$ but it will cost a price in ETH that will be set according the bitcoin value.
the higher bitcoin go the more expensive it will cost in ETH.

I write here something that can be like the start of a whitepaper for the idea:

Currently we are 2 in the crew (pablo is no longer inside. there is someone else.)
and we are looking for more people.

we are also looking for people that want to be customers of such an insurance.

currently it is still only an idea. no obligation take place.

but we need to know who wants to participate because we are making waiting lists.

so here is the start of the white paper. remember it is only the start.


===================================================================

The idea of this whitepaper is to insure a bitcoin fall of 50% by a 0.5 ETH for a periode of a year from the registration time at the price of 0.005 ETH
that means that if someone wants to have this insurance he needs to pay 0.005ETH
and register for a year with the exact USD value of the bitcoin at that time.
and if in a periode of a year the bitcoin touches a 50% value of that registred USD value then he will receive a 0.5 ETH.


In order to make sure we can pay the insurance amount to the client we must actualy own that amount in ETH available and dedicated to each customer that register for an insurance.
so the conclusion is that we cannot accept new customers until we have the amount of 0.5ETH available for them.

so what we are going to do is to make a waiting list of pending customers who will register for our insurance program.
register for our telegram group at t.me/bitsure

each customer that wants to participate must be willing to pay the amount of 0.005ETH for the insurance and also buy an amount of our ERC20 Tokens dedicated for this project.
so by entering the waiting list you actaly tels us you are willing to pay the amount.


We also need investors to invest in our ERC20 tokens so that this project can rise.
so if you want to invest and receive ERC20 tokens please join our telegram group for more information.



ERC20 token.
============



We wil isuue an ERC20 token for the purpose of paying for the insurance.
you can buy that token in etherdelta exchange.
or directly from us.





Risks
======


1.  We are currently a 2 man crew.
if for some reason we will not be available then you lost your money. and you will probably not receive your insuurance even if the bitcoin falls 50%

2. if Ethereum will crush then your 0.5 ETH value will drop. and if bitcoin falls 50% then its highly reasnobale that Ethereum will also drop.
3.




Rules
======


When a customer registered and approved for insurance he need to pay a fee for registration.
if the insurance is isued we pay only to the address from which he paid us.
No change of address is available so you must keep your private key of the ethereum address in a safe place and not loose it.
if you loose it, you loose the insurrance for that year.


when you sign in I personaly sets a password and a username for your account. I put the ethereum address that you give me.
You cannot change your password and you cannot change your username and cannot chage your ethereum address.
only I have access to the website.
in this way the website is best secure and I dont even need HTTPS because I am the only one that can change data in it.
and I change the data only directly through the database itself.

======================================================================================


I also created a telegram group if you want to join and discuss this idea with me and with other there you can do it in here:

https://t.me/bitsure

or you can discuss in this thread also.

but if you want to be part of this idea it is preffered to join the telegram group I created.

Thanks
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June 02, 2018, 04:42:00 PM
 #13

Update:

We have telegram group for discussion this idea:

please join if you have something to say and want to talk:

https://t.me/bitsure



hello,

I want to talk about an idea that I have, the idea involves Bitcoin, Insurance and new token named "fortulatoken".

the fortulatoken already exists. the story of the fortulatoken is a very strange story. I was in a bitcoin discussion group in facebook when I crossed a post of a guy that tells "whoever will give me his ethereum wallet address I will send him a random number of my own tokens". people ignored his post and nobody answered him. But I asked him "wait a second I give you my wallet address and you put inside it tokens?" here is my wallet address. and I wrote the address.

a few minutes later I found the tokens and then we keep talking and became friends so he gave me a lot of fortulatokens. to be presise he gave me 50,000,000,000 tokens.

The only problem is that nobody knows about fortulatokens so my 50 miliard tokens basicaly worth 0 USD or 0 Ethereum or 0 of everything.
so what we want to do is to give value to those tokens.

And the idea we have is to open an insurance company that will insure a bitcoin fall of over 50%.
That means whoever buy a defense from such falling will receive an amount of ethereum or fortulacoin that will be worth an amount that we will set.

for example the amount can be 500$.

if the bitcoin falls 50% or bigger fall we pay whoever be signed up in our system 500$ in ethereum (or fortulatoken).

of course this service will cost a price just like buying an insurance.

or if you want to call it "a put option on the bitcoin" but less complicated. the amount we pay per customer will be constant.

so this is the idea.

and with this idea we want to start our fortulatoken movement.

we already have a few people that told us they will agree to pay 2$ per year for a 500$ defence if bitcoin falls more then 50%.

Think for yourself will you pay 2$ per year for such a defence?

of course that if we have too many customers and the bitcoin will fall a 2$ will not cover our lost.
so we have to think more accurately about this model and at first the number of customers will be limited so even if there is a falling in the bitcoin we will not go bankrupcy.

if you like this idea and you have questions or comments please write them here. I would love to hear thoughts about this.

if you want to invest please invest but not too big amounts please invest only what you can lose. because this idea might still have some problems and also because in general the statistics of new companies are 1 out of 10 success and the other 9 fails.

and we are very new.


A little about ourselfs:

I can tell that we are very honest people.
currently we are two and we might grow in the future.
we will need to consult people that understand insuurance better then us and this cost money.

we hope to start making a movement to our coin which is tradeble in a bourse names "Etherdelta"

in this link:

https://etherdelta.com/#0x0309a014757361bdd5807fb11710542cc815bd8b-ETH

we have a bonus plan for the first 100 investors that will invest 10$ worth of ethereum in our project.
the bonus will be a percentage of the amount of fortulatokens you bought and we will also have to decide what that percentage will be set to.

we have a roadmap
it is here:


http://cryptorotate.com/roadmap.php


So thats it.
Hope to hear your opinions.


Yair


why not insure bitcoin price lost by simply buying short bitcoin futures.

yair24
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June 02, 2018, 05:48:43 PM
 #14

Bitcoin future is a good way to defend from bitcoin fall.

But here there is bigger opertunity,

The ones that will buy the tokens can participate in future revenues. Its a different investment instrument then futures.

Also you pay for it in cryptocurrency.


Mr.ZODIAC
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June 02, 2018, 06:41:54 PM
 #15

Bitcoin future is a good way to defend from bitcoin fall.

But here there is bigger opertunity,

The ones that will buy the tokens can participate in future revenues. Its a different investment instrument then futures.

Also you pay for it in cryptocurrency.



Of course, everything is very well said, but how realistic is to insure yourself against the failure of using Bitcoin? In any case, all those forecasts that have already been sounded will not be realized until we see confirmation of that information.

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June 02, 2018, 08:19:48 PM
 #16

I didnt understand what you mean...
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June 20, 2018, 08:58:44 PM
 #17

If you want to share you idea to our news network, we can write an article and share:


https://www.newstokenpool.com/


https://www.newstokenpool.com/ - The Premier Payment Token of the Future
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July 25, 2018, 07:52:47 PM
 #18

Wow..... I undersrand this project and it worth to look into
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July 25, 2018, 11:45:53 PM
 #19

Update:

We have telegram group for discussion this idea:

please join if you have something to say and want to talk:

https://t.me/bitsure



hello,

I want to talk about an idea that I have, the idea involves Bitcoin, Insurance and new token named "fortulatoken".

the fortulatoken already exists. the story of the fortulatoken is a very strange story. I was in a bitcoin discussion group in facebook when I crossed a post of a guy that tells "whoever will give me his ethereum wallet address I will send him a random number of my own tokens". people ignored his post and nobody answered him. But I asked him "wait a second I give you my wallet address and you put inside it tokens?" here is my wallet address. and I wrote the address.

a few minutes later I found the tokens and then we keep talking and became friends so he gave me a lot of fortulatokens. to be presise he gave me 50,000,000,000 tokens.

The only problem is that nobody knows about fortulatokens so my 50 miliard tokens basicaly worth 0 USD or 0 Ethereum or 0 of everything.
so what we want to do is to give value to those tokens.

And the idea we have is to open an insurance company that will insure a bitcoin fall of over 50%.
That means whoever buy a defense from such falling will receive an amount of ethereum or fortulacoin that will be worth an amount that we will set.

for example the amount can be 500$.

if the bitcoin falls 50% or bigger fall we pay whoever be signed up in our system 500$ in ethereum (or fortulatoken).

of course this service will cost a price just like buying an insurance.

or if you want to call it "a put option on the bitcoin" but less complicated. the amount we pay per customer will be constant.

so this is the idea.

and with this idea we want to start our fortulatoken movement.

we already have a few people that told us they will agree to pay 2$ per year for a 500$ defence if bitcoin falls more then 50%.

Think for yourself will you pay 2$ per year for such a defence?

of course that if we have too many customers and the bitcoin will fall a 2$ will not cover our lost.
so we have to think more accurately about this model and at first the number of customers will be limited so even if there is a falling in the bitcoin we will not go bankrupcy.

if you like this idea and you have questions or comments please write them here. I would love to hear thoughts about this.

if you want to invest please invest but not too big amounts please invest only what you can lose. because this idea might still have some problems and also because in general the statistics of new companies are 1 out of 10 success and the other 9 fails.

and we are very new.


A little about ourselfs:

I can tell that we are very honest people.
currently we are two and we might grow in the future.
we will need to consult people that understand insuurance better then us and this cost money.

we hope to start making a movement to our coin which is tradeble in a bourse names "Etherdelta"

in this link:

https://etherdelta.com/#0x0309a014757361bdd5807fb11710542cc815bd8b-ETH

we have a bonus plan for the first 100 investors that will invest 10$ worth of ethereum in our project.
the bonus will be a percentage of the amount of fortulatokens you bought and we will also have to decide what that percentage will be set to.

we have a roadmap
it is here:


http://cryptorotate.com/roadmap.php


So thats it.
Hope to hear your opinions.


Yair


you can buy bitcoin futures to ensure yourselves no use for your insurrance.

yair24
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July 26, 2018, 04:45:54 AM
 #20

Well, anyway
We are going to have more coins in our insurance plans not only bitcoin.

So if anyone belive in this idea please join the telegram group.

Thanks
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