Bitcoins vast overvaluation

[ElectricMucus]

The question is how is that 10k figure derived?

[notme]

For those of you who don't know who Rick Falkvinge is or what he is about....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsI3-IEWgFg

Cool guy! Not so good at economics though I guess. I'd still vote for him. I wish there was a pirate party in the US...

http://uspirates.org/

[sublime5447]

The point to me is something he just glosses over and that is that there is not an underlying market supporting the bitcoin price. Basically the whole bitcoin market is speculators with no real demand for coins other than drugs and gamblers and they dont need enough coins to justify the price. I dont really care about the other aspects of the artical.

It is like the housing market and the feds bond buying, The real market is not there for homes so they have to create artificial scarcity and use fed bond buying to prop up the price.  

Reality will set in at some point, but i guess the saying goes the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

So Bit-pay single handedly attaining 10,000 merchant customers is equivalent to your bolded statement above?

It doesnt matter how many merchants accept bitcoin.. Bitcoin will never matter until people can actually get them! I see that all the time. We need more business to accept bitcoin. WTF does that matter? The problem with bitcoin is the same problem it had a year and a half ago when I got in. NO ONE CAN GET COINS! People are not going to send of their fiat via bank wire in mass.

[RodeoX]

Hmmm. I buy coins all the time. It has never taken me more than 2hrs.

[sublime5447]

Hmmm. I buy coins all the time. It has never taken me more than 2hrs.

Really the first time you bought was less than 2 hrs.? This statement makes you look like a jack-ass everyone knows how hard it is to get coins.  

BTW 2 hours is a long time.

Your wallet--


Transactions
No. Transactions   0   
Total Received   0 BTC   
Final Balance   0 BTC


My wallet --

Total Transactions   573   

Total Received   449.57005673 BTC   

Total Sent   449.5694786 BTC
Final Balance   0.00057813 BTC

[RodeoX]

Hmmm. I buy coins all the time. It has never taken me more than 2hrs.

Really the first time you bought was less than 2 hrs.? This statement makes you look like a jack-ass everyone knows how hard it is to get coins.  

BTW 2 hours is a long time.

Your wallet--


Transactions
No. Transactions   0   
Total Received   0 BTC   
Final Balance   0 BTC


My wallet --

Total Transactions   573   

Total Received   449.57005673 BTC   

Total Sent   449.5694786 BTC
Final Balance   0.00057813 BTC

Those numbers have nothing to do with my wallet. lol  And to be correct my first BTC took much longer as it was via mail. But normally it takes me about 10mins.

[sublime5447]

Ya people are not going to send cash via mail. If you know where to buy in 10 min without a month long verification process, excessive fees, or sending bank wire or cash deposited to a stranger's account. Please enlighten us.

That is just your public wallet. I know you have coins because you are a lifetime member to the foundation. I think when I looked it was thousands of dollars that could only be paid in coins  

Bitcoin has to be better than what people already use.


"The revolution will be monetized!"  or this will never happen

[notme]

Ya people are not going to send cash via mail. If you know where to buy in 10 min without a month long verification process, excessive fees, or sending bank wire or cash deposited to a stranger's account. Please enlighten us.

That is just your public wallet. I know you have coins because you are a lifetime member to the foundation. I think when I looked it was thousands of dollars that could only be paid in coins  

Bitcoin has to be better than what people already use.


"The revolution will be monetized!"  or this will never happen

Coinbase.  Verification takes about a week (Which is the same as paypal or any other service that links to your bank account.  It is a bit longer before you can buy insane amounts, but the default limits give you a lot of room).  Fees are reasonable.

[sublime5447]

Ya that is fine and good, but they will be shut down too. Bitstamp and coin base are pretty good.

It is not P2P. They are just new banks they will either be regulated to death or shut down.  

Centralized institutions.

[RodeoX]

Ya people are not going to send cash via mail. If you know where to buy in 10 min without a month long verification process, excessive fees, or sending bank wire or cash deposited to a stranger's account. Please enlighten us.

That is just your public wallet. I know you have coins because you are a lifetime member to the foundation. I think when I looked it was thousands of dollars that could only be paid in coins  

Bitcoin has to be better than what people already use.


"The revolution will be monetized!"  or this will never happen

Ah, without fees or identity. No, I have no free way to get bitcoins anonymously. I have no problem verifying my identity and paying for a service. When I did cash in the mail it was the only way. There were no exchanges.  As far as the wallet, I have lots. But I don't remember ever having that much in my public one.
If you exclude bank wires, direct deposits (like the Europeans do), fees, AML/KYC verification then it must be hard for you.

[Walsoraj]

If ltc crashes with Atlantis coming down, does this support Falkvinge's btc valuation?

[sublime5447]

Never said anything about anonymous or without fees. Without excessive fees yes, but people have to get paid and without the month that mt gox required to verify.

The best option is coinbase at the moment but wont last. 

[rampantparanoia]

there's also localbitcoins, in the case where your local market has evolved enough to have a steady flow of customers doing business with you

[sublime5447]

there's also localbitcoins, in the case where your local market has evolved enough to have a steady flow of customers doing business with you

Your joking right? unless you live in San Fran. or NYC. There is no real local markets at this point and that is the most expensive way to buy coins.

[windjc]

Never said anything about anonymous or without fees. Without excessive fees yes, but people have to get paid and without the month that mt gox required to verify.

The best option is coinbase at the moment but wont last. 

Why are you complaining so much?  It's like you don't even realize that the evolution of a thing like Bitcoin is going to take years, like double digit years. Which is probably the smartest thing that was said in the original article.  Bitcoin is still a freaking baby. It is just learning to crawl and stand up.

What did the internet look like in 1996? Yes, and how many people like you were standing around pointing out all the things it couldn't do and how it was going to die? Lots, in case you don't remember. Lots.

[ronimacarroni]

I think he's making a whole lot of assumptions here that you just can't make.

First of all, let's not forget that there is a large degree of automation in bitcoin trading since, you know, there's an awful lot of programmers around. You can also look back and see all trading robots that have been posted to the forums alone where people literally download and let it run so you have a large population of users who don't know what they're doing just letting the bot do its thing. Since this is the same exact bot over many different accounts, they will all notice the same things and make the same decisions.

In fact, I used to use this knowledge to predict what the bots would do in a certain situation. When I saw that scenario playing out, I would take advantage of the bot's mindlessness and it was making me some pretty good profit. The bots have gotten pretty sophisticated now, and the market is large enough that the risk to me is too great. I wouldn't put it past a bigger player to be taking the same sort of reactionary trades against a programmed hive mind.

This.
What the author illustrated is just a bunch of bots doing automated trading.
Then he went on about the velocity of money which just shows he has a keneysian bias.

[johnyj]

It is not difficult to get bitcoin at all, but I don't believe that any new users would like to throw $1000 directly into it without first understand how a wallet works and make sure their coins are secure (That is very tough even for an IT expert)

The users are lacking of motivation, so far there is no real good reason to purchase bitcoin other than long term saving. But that is also the ultimate area that bitcoin excels (no any other existing financial instruments can compete, not even Apple's stock or gold)

There is a worry that the coins' value might drop to zero, people need someone to back it, but that is very easy to achieve for any middle sized investment fond

[XxionxX]

Cool guy! Not so good at economics though I guess. I'd still vote for him. I wish there was a pirate party in the US...

http://uspirates.org/

The website seems a tad sparce... I like my political parties to have people I can vote for.

[smoothie]

The question is how is that 10k figure derived?

I'll take a stab at it: Addition (+)

[ElectricMucus]

The question is how is that 10k figure derived?

I'll take a stab at it: Addition (+)

You used to be fun. Too bad for you.