Why Ripple has failed.

[JoelKatz]

In decades of banking and trading in Canada and USA well into 7 figures...
I have not lost a single penny... or lost any sleep over the security of my assets.

We're not claiming Ripple is "more secure" than conventional payment systems.

Meanwhile, people whose money disappears on Ripple are writing Github tickets...
And being told they had "bad passwords". What fun.

We have yet to see a case where someone had a balance decrease when they didn't either place an offer or sign a transaction to authorize that decrease. If that ever happened, everyone would know it because balances are public and transactions are public. I definitely agree that protecting the private keys used to sign transactions is a huge issue for any crypto-currency system. We've been working on improving the way we do that, but I agree that there's lots more work to be done. This is a huge issue for both Bitcoin, Ripple, and pretty much any other decentralized crypo-currency system that gives people access to irreversible payments.

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[underground_]

https://ripplecharts.com/markets

Looking at the stats there has been no progress since May...
It's Bitstamp and nothing else...
Your big US Gateway is doing $2,300 is business/day.

http://www.bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#czsg2010-09-01zeg2011-03-01ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zvzcvzl

Bitcoin had similar volume when it was new, severely undervalued, and not really ready for mainstream use.

Edit:

Also, at the the time, bitcoins were traded mostly on Mt.Gox (Magic the Gathering Online Exchange) and you were considered foolish if you actually thought it was a good idea to buy them.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

https://ripplecharts.com/markets

Looking at the stats there has been no progress since May...
It's Bitstamp and nothing else...
Your big US Gateway is doing $2,300 is business/day.

http://www.bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#czsg2010-09-01zeg2011-03-01ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zvzcvzl

Bitcoin had similar volume when it was new, severely undervalued, and not really ready for mainstream use.

Edit:

Also, at the the time, bitcoins were traded mostly on Mt.Gox (Magic the Gathering Online Exchange) and you were considered foolish if you actually thought it was a good idea to buy them.

You are aware that (I) this is an anecdote (ii) Bitcoin's history was exceptional and (iii) Occam's razor points to a different conclusion?

[underground_]

https://ripplecharts.com/markets

Looking at the stats there has been no progress since May...
It's Bitstamp and nothing else...
Your big US Gateway is doing $2,300 is business/day.

http://www.bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#czsg2010-09-01zeg2011-03-01ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zvzcvzl

Bitcoin had similar volume when it was new, severely undervalued, and not really ready for mainstream use.

Edit:

Also, at the the time, bitcoins were traded mostly on Mt.Gox (Magic the Gathering Online Exchange) and you were considered foolish if you actually thought it was a good idea to buy them.

You are aware that (I) this is an anecdote (ii) Bitcoin's history was exceptional and (iii) Occam's razor points to a different conclusion?

I'm pointing out that, based on Quantplus's criteria, bitcoin also could have been considered a failure when it was at a similar stage of development.

[mymenace]

My Ripple story


1. Created wallet, then unable to login.

2. Create new wallet same username, made sure to write down password

3. Going great, got a giveaway 1000XRP

4. Password no longer works, I had written the password down and used it before

5. Create wallet again, same username no more XRP all lost

6. Contact the Ripple team, no response for weeks

7. Advised by Ripple team nothing they can do

8. Wait for next giveaway, all giveaways for US bank account only and jump through hoops to obtain

9. Still no XRP

10. Another giveaway only for US bank accounts and jump through hoops to get it. (http://us7.campaign-archive2.com/?u=97b8ad365e32a6560b749f60c&id=402e387e6c&e=c3961035c9)

11. From the first day, months ago that I saw ripple, I have tried to work out how to trade it, it still is confusing and the most difficult to trade.


Hope no-one else has been through all this

[Shallow]

ripple has failed ages ago

[JoelKatz]

My Ripple story

1. Created wallet, then unable to login.

2. Create new wallet same username, made sure to write down password

3. Going great, got a giveaway 1000XRP

4. Password no longer works, I had written the password down and used it before

5. Create wallet again, same username no more XRP all lost

Sorry to hear about that. Our wallet scheme has been improved significantly since then, but it is still a bit non-intuitive. One thing I should emphasize -- the client strongly urges you to write down your account secret. (It's a string the client generates that starts with an "s".) So long as you have that secret (and nobody else does), your funds are safe. You can always create a new wallet with the same secret.

Also, if you have any suggestions for better giveaways, we'd love to hear them.

[mymenace]

My Ripple story

1. Created wallet, then unable to login.

2. Create new wallet same username, made sure to write down password

3. Going great, got a giveaway 1000XRP

4. Password no longer works, I had written the password down and used it before

5. Create wallet again, same username no more XRP all lost

Sorry to hear about that. Our wallet scheme has been improved significantly since then, but it is still a bit non-intuitive. One thing I should emphasize -- the client strongly urges you to write down your account secret. (It's a string the client generates that starts with an "s".) So long as you have that secret (and nobody else does), your funds are safe. You can always create a new wallet with the same secret.

Also, if you have any suggestions for better giveaways, we'd love to hear them.

Thanks for the response
1. A way to retrieve your account from ripple would be a good thing, I can contact a bank and get account access, I can contact an exchange and get account access but I cannot do this with the ripple wallet. If there was a worst case scenario and if I lost everything I would like another way to retrieve the account.

2. Giveaway idea easy, just give it away, people will be more likely to try something new if it is easy like post your wallet address and boom there it is. The rest of the community does not feel ostracized either.

[JoelKatz]

1. A way to retrieve your account from ripple would be a good thing, I can contact a bank and get account access, I can contact an exchange and get account access but I cannot do this with the ripple wallet. If there was a worst case scenario and if I lost everything I would like another way to retrieve the account.

We definitely wouldn't want to do that because that would make us more of a central authority than we ever want to be. But perhaps a way to have your wallet provider be able to recover your secret wouldn't be a bad idea. We could make it opt in. Ideally, we wouldn't want your wallet provider to be able to do it alone, but if there's something you have to give them for them to be able to recover, then if you lose that you're again cut off from your account.

[smoothie]

In my view the whole concept of supporting debt/transactions through trust is majorly flawed.

Why create a system that is based on IOUs and trust?....."faith"?....."credit"?  <--- The last two words are use by the U.S. govt when making promises they can't keep based on IOUs.

We already have that type of broken system...it's called the Federal Reserve System.

That's pretty much the only way to provide an electronic payment system for fiat currencies. Ripple is "less broken" than existing payment systems for fiat currencies because users can exchange balances with each other without needing the permission of any central authority.

How does it fix the current "broken" system when you still need to trust someone?

[smoothie]

In my view the whole concept of supporting debt/transactions through trust is majorly flawed.

Why create a system that is based on IOUs and trust?....."faith"?....."credit"?  <--- The last two words are use by the U.S. govt when making promises they can't keep based on IOUs.

We already have that type of broken system...it's called the Federal Reserve System.

That's pretty much the only way to provide an electronic payment system for fiat currencies. Ripple is "less broken" than existing payment systems for fiat currencies because users can exchange balances with each other without needing the permission of any central authority.

Now that I think about it.

If you get scammed while using ripple by a user that decides to be untrustworthy there is no recourse.

In the traditional banking system recourse actually exists. So I'm trying to figure out where you fix the scam portion of things when you still need to trust someone. I do not see any government or institution willing to (and able) to provide recourse to financial victims if they are scammed using ripple.

[JoelKatz]

If you get scammed while using ripple by a user that decides to be untrustworthy there is no recourse.

Ripple is an irreversible payment system just like Bitcoin. There is no recourse if you regret sending funds or do so in error.

In the traditional banking system recourse actually exists. So I'm trying to figure out where you fix the scam portion of things when you still need to trust someone. I do not see any government or institution willing to (and able) to provide recourse to financial victims if they are scammed using ripple.

The issues for Ripple are much the same as Bitcoin. In much of the world, irreversible payment systems are already available and widely used.

Ripple may wind up being predominantly used between payment systems rather than between users directly. Ripple can provide the cross-currency and cross-issuer movement of funds without users having to interact with Ripple directly. This allows payment systems to make payments reversible between each other under whatever terms they find mutually agreeable. This also avoids the need for users to manage cryptographic credentials.

[Labcoin_PR]

but you need to trust people to send anything but xrps in ripple

[smoothie]

If you get scammed while using ripple by a user that decides to be untrustworthy there is no recourse.

Ripple is an irreversible payment system just like Bitcoin. There is no recourse if you regret sending funds or do so in error.

In the traditional banking system recourse actually exists. So I'm trying to figure out where you fix the scam portion of things when you still need to trust someone. I do not see any government or institution willing to (and able) to provide recourse to financial victims if they are scammed using ripple.

The issues for Ripple are much the same as Bitcoin. In much of the world, irreversible payment systems are already available and widely used.

Ripple may wind up being predominantly used between payment systems rather than between users directly. Ripple can provide the cross-currency and cross-issuer movement of funds without users having to interact with Ripple directly. This allows payment systems to make payments reversible between each other under whatever terms they find mutually agreeable. This also avoids the need for users to manage cryptographic credentials.

So then why is there is a need to have a centralized company that backs it? I'm curious to know when your "secret" gets generated if the issuing party keeps a copy somewhere. Hmm.

[JoelKatz]

but you need to trust people to send anything but xrps in ripple

Right. To move an asset electronically that isn't an inherently electronic asset, you need to trust someone or something to hold that asset. This is why if you want to move dollars into or out of Bitcoins, you have to trust an exchange to hold the dollars for you. The main advantages of Ripple are that you can transfer balances without having to go to or through the issuer and everyone has access to the order books between assets with no forex middlemen. This allows people to hold the assets they choose while still being able to make payments across currencies and across issuers -- so you don't have to trust the same entities as the you want to do business with.

[JoelKatz]

So then why is there is a need to have a centralized company that backs it? I'm curious to know when your "secret" gets generated if the issuing party keeps a copy somewhere. Hmm.

You can look at the code. The secret is random. It's stored, encrypted, in your wallet. Your encrypted wallet can be stored locally in your browser or remotely in a blob vault.

As for why there is a need to have a centralized company that backs it, it's because adoption is absolutely not a sure thing. We've worked as hard was we can to design the system, develop the code, build relationships with other companies, and so on. There will come a time when Ripple no longer needs us. As people find the Ripple network useful, we hope they'll contribute the features they most need or want. We're having a developer conference in Las Vegas in about two weeks.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=293086.0

[smoothie]

So then why is there is a need to have a centralized company that backs it? I'm curious to know when your "secret" gets generated if the issuing party keeps a copy somewhere. Hmm.

You can look at the code. The secret is random. It's stored, encrypted, in your wallet. Your encrypted wallet can be stored locally in your browser or remotely in a blob vault.

As for why there is a need to have a centralized company that backs it, it's because adoption is absolutely not a sure thing. We've worked as hard was we can to design the system, develop the code, build relationships with other companies, and so on. There will come a time when Ripple no longer needs us. As people find the Ripple network useful, we hope they'll contribute the features they most need or want. We're having a developer conference in Las Vegas in about two weeks.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=293086.0

Thank you for clarifying the secret portion of my post. I appreciate that.

Why create so many XRPs and hold the majority of them..if indeed your bolded statement is true?

Why do you folks needs to many XRPs?

[tokeweed]

So then why is there is a need to have a centralized company that backs it? I'm curious to know when your "secret" gets generated if the issuing party keeps a copy somewhere. Hmm.

You can look at the code. The secret is random. It's stored, encrypted, in your wallet. Your encrypted wallet can be stored locally in your browser or remotely in a blob vault.

As for why there is a need to have a centralized company that backs it, it's because adoption is absolutely not a sure thing. We've worked as hard was we can to design the system, develop the code, build relationships with other companies, and so on. There will come a time when Ripple no longer needs us. As people find the Ripple network useful, we hope they'll contribute the features they most need or want. We're having a developer conference in Las Vegas in about two weeks.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=293086.0

Thank you for clarifying the secret portion of my post. I appreciate that.

Why create so many XRPs and hold the majority of them..if indeed your bolded statement is true?

Why do you folks needs to many XRPs?

for ripplelabs to give to its potential partners/gateways... i think.

[tokeweed]

your parents?  i would love to meet them.

[JoelKatz]

Why do you folks needs to many XRPs?

To fund development, to drive adoption of Ripple as a payment network, to do some good in the world, and, of course, we are a for profit company.