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Author Topic: Anyone accepting premium domain names as collateral ($20k +)  (Read 92 times)
akes2090
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February 19, 2018, 01:49:13 PM
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Ok so I realize that I am a newbie here and the general consensus of "no collateral no loan" prevails.
I have 4x LLLL.com premium domains - total value of at least $20K (possibly more if sold on Sedo or other marketplaces - can provide proof of value) which I am prepared to cede ownership to, in lieu/as collateral -for a loan. We can use the highly esteemed/trusted members for escrow, so that everything is transparent and legit. Here is my request:

Loan amount required: 2.0 BTC
Duration of loan: 60 days
Collateral: as described above -> 4x premium LLLL.com domain names totalling at least $20K in value (should the value of 2BTC exceed $20K - I will pay the difference throught direct bank transfer to your account)
Repayment after 60 days: 2.2 BTC
Nett interest: 0.2 BTC (10% of loaned amount)

Is anyone interested or can fulfill this loan?

Thanks.
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ThatRandom8543
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February 19, 2018, 02:05:02 PM
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Ok so I realize that I am a newbie here and the general consensus of "no collateral no loan" prevails.
I have 4x LLLL.com premium domains - total value of at least $20K (possibly more if sold on Sedo or other marketplaces - can provide proof of value) which I am prepared to cede ownership to, in lieu/as collateral -for a loan. We can use the highly esteemed/trusted members for escrow, so that everything is transparent and legit. Here is my request:

Loan amount required: 2.0 BTC
Duration of loan: 60 days
Collateral: as described above -> 4x premium LLLL.com domain names totalling at least $20K in value (should the value of 2BTC exceed $20K - I will pay the difference throught direct bank transfer to your account)
Repayment after 60 days: 2.2 BTC
Nett interest: 0.2 BTC (10% of loaned amount)

Is anyone interested or can fulfill this loan?

Thanks.


Imho this seems more like a sale, but thats my opinion.

However, if its worth $20k, then youre going to need to ask for less than 2btc because 2btc is almost $22k. So you would either need to lower your request or provide collateral that is 120% (or about $24k). On top of that, no one is going to accept a bank transfer as that pose a huge risk as well. The way I also see domains is that just because its worth that much, doesnt mean it would sale for that much. Usually it would sale for way less, even on places like sedo, and there is a long wait for a ROI in the event you default. With that in mind as well, domains can also be easily taken back by claiming an unauthorized transfer, and since youre asking for cryptocurrency, it pretty much makes it harder to defend against such a case in the event it does happen, so using domains is usually a higher risk, especially since youre new here, and do need to prove youre the owner of the domain.
akes2090
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February 19, 2018, 04:57:27 PM
 #3

Ok so I realize that I am a newbie here and the general consensus of "no collateral no loan" prevails.
I have 4x LLLL.com premium domains - total value of at least $20K (possibly more if sold on Sedo or other marketplaces - can provide proof of value) which I am prepared to cede ownership to, in lieu/as collateral -for a loan. We can use the highly esteemed/trusted members for escrow, so that everything is transparent and legit. Here is my request:

Loan amount required: 2.0 BTC
Duration of loan: 60 days
Collateral: as described above -> 4x premium LLLL.com domain names totalling at least $20K in value (should the value of 2BTC exceed $20K - I will pay the difference throught direct bank transfer to your account)
Repayment after 60 days: 2.2 BTC
Nett interest: 0.2 BTC (10% of loaned amount)

Is anyone interested or can fulfill this loan?

Thanks.


Imho this seems more like a sale, but thats my opinion.

However, if its worth $20k, then youre going to need to ask for less than 2btc because 2btc is almost $22k. So you would either need to lower your request or provide collateral that is 120% (or about $24k). On top of that, no one is going to accept a bank transfer as that pose a huge risk as well. The way I also see domains is that just because its worth that much, doesnt mean it would sale for that much. Usually it would sale for way less, even on places like sedo, and there is a long wait for a ROI in the event you default. With that in mind as well, domains can also be easily taken back by claiming an unauthorized transfer, and since youre asking for cryptocurrency, it pretty much makes it harder to defend against such a case in the event it does happen, so using domains is usually a higher risk, especially since youre new here, and do need to prove youre the owner of the domain.

Thanks for the reply and feedback.

1. At the time of posting - 2 BTC was around $22K but your point is valid and I agree fully.
2. I am not sure if I fully agree though with the 120% collateral principle as it ought to be equal value (100% of X = 100% of Y). As much as one can argue that it dissuades the applicant from defaulting, the converse also applies: what happens in the case where the person who facilitates the loan, refuses to return the collateral, perhaps because its value has appreciated or for some other reason?
3. Besides bank transfer - I am open to any other "risk free" method that can ensure the transfer of fiat funds. Then again if bank transfer is deemed as a "risk" I'm not sure what would constitute otherwise.
4. The value of the domains are based on comparable sales that have occurred within the last few months - so I am fairly certain that it is realistic. LLLL.com domains are somewhat similar to crypto - there are a limited number in existence (26^4 = 456976 to be exact -> not including alphanumeric or IDN)  and consequently it boils down to supply v.s. demand. Even then so the few good ones that are available can expect to go at premium prices. 
5. Domains can't be taken back as the owner provides EPP codes for transfer and authorizes the same - the process is irreversible and no registrar or even ICANN can intervene once the transfer is complete as the owner authorized transfer in the first place.
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February 19, 2018, 05:38:03 PM
 #4

I'll lend if it's xkcd.com  Cheesy



Seriously though, your LLLL.com domains probably aren't selling for that much, especially considering that you aren't providing the actual domain (worth more if it's brandable, but you know that).

http://shortnames.com/llll/sales


EcuaMobi
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February 19, 2018, 05:48:00 PM
Merited by DarkStar_ (1), ThatRandom8543 (1)
 #5

The collateral must be worth more than the loan + interests (BTC2.2 in this case) and it should be possible to easily sell it if required.
Basing your domains' value on "comparable sales" is a great mistake of yours (or a blatant scam attempt) because:
- Only big sales appear on news or are public. Domain prices are subjective and change a lot. If 5 similar domains were sold for $100 each and one for $5,000 then the average is $916 but most probably only the $5,000 one will be public. Any similar domain isn't worth $5,000.
- Almost certainly it caused a lot of work selling that domain for $5,000. It wasn't sold easily. So in this example you shouldn't even value your domain at the average of $916 but at the easily-selling price of $100

This is why it's very delicate to accept domains as collateral. It's valid collateral only if valued very low. Not nearly as much as "comparable sales" who received great prices.
(I'm aware it's far better to sell the domains than to offer them as collateral. And that's the idea. You're supposed to want them back)

3. Besides bank transfer - I am open to any other "risk free" method that can ensure the transfer of fiat funds. Then again if bank transfer is deemed as a "risk" I'm not sure what would constitute otherwise.
If you transfer fiat then it is a sale. It can be considered as a loan (with the collateral you offer) plus a sale (for the fiat you send), totaling BTC2.
That's not how things work here. If you try to fake a sale as a loan then you'll get negative trust.

5. Domains can't be taken back as the owner provides EPP codes for transfer and authorizes the same - the process is irreversible and no registrar or even ICANN can intervene once the transfer is complete as the owner authorized transfer in the first place.
Unless in the future it's proven the domain was stolen in the first place, either by you or the person who transferred the domains to you. In that case ICANN can intervene and transfer the domain to the rightful owner.



Please post here the domain names or PM them to me. If they can really be easily and near to immediately sold for more than the asked loan plus interests, then I can fill your request.
Otherwise, if the collateral is invalid, you will get negative trust.

You also have the option to close and lock this thread immediately.



Edit:
I forgot about this:
2. I am not sure if I fully agree though with the 120% collateral principle as it ought to be equal value (100% of X = 100% of Y). As much as one can argue that it dissuades the applicant from defaulting, the converse also applies: what happens in the case where the person who facilitates the loan, refuses to return the collateral, perhaps because its value has appreciated or for some other reason?
No, the converse does not apply. If you don't trust the lender then the collateral must be held by a trusted escrow.
It must not be possible for any party to scam. That is achieved by providing collateral clearly worth more than the loan plus interests.
This is not a sale where both parties give something worth the same, especially if one part gives something (domains) whose value is subjective.
This is a loan and you must be willing to get the collateral back.

akes2090
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February 19, 2018, 07:47:57 PM
 #6

Thanks everyone for feedback and clarity.
I decided that what I was trying to achieve was probably being perceived in the wrong context.
I am locking this topic as suggested, before any potential punitive measure ensues.
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