Open Discussion of Just-Dice

[dooglus]

I'm not sure it adds anything to this thread for me to say that I would never do that.  I would say that whether I was cheating or not.

Since you replied:

Just say it anyway... As in, a post all by it's own. GPG signed. huh! (then go through a vetting process through someone like John K., DyslexicZombei, or Dabs).

hehehe.

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I don't even know if I can say in all honestly that I would never cheat at Just-Dice.  I can honestly say I never have done, and that I intend never to do so.  But I can imagine dire situations in which I could be very tempted to do so.

The whole point is pretty much moot however, since any such cheating is undetectable if done properly.  People either trust me or they don't.
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[Dabs]

Nice. You should have left out the first sentence and the last one. I understand you probably want to say it anyway.

[sgravina]

The whole point is pretty much moot however, since any such cheating is undetectable if done properly.  People either trust me or they don't.

Dooglus:  Cheating is undetectable.  This seems to be a big problem.  If you had some type of oversight and your process and accounts were audited would cheating still be undetectable?

This seems to be a weakness of internet gambling in general.  All these gambling sites have the same weakness.

The equivalent in a real casino would be rigged games that only gamblers who work for the owners can benefit from.

With internet gambling the owner, the shill and the source of entropy can all be the same person.

[MPOE-PR]

Nice. You should have left out the first sentence and the last one. I understand you probably want to say it anyway.

You seem to think that rephrasing honest words into something more palatable somehow makes everything better. It makes sense for sappy greeting cards, not so much for situations involving trust.

[dooglus]

Dooglus:  Cheating is undetectable.  This seems to be a big problem.  If you had some type of oversight and your process and accounts were audited would cheating still be undetectable?

This seems to be a weakness of internet gambling in general.  All these gambling sites have the same weakness.

The equivalent in a real casino would be rigged games that only gamblers who work for the owners can benefit from.

The problem as I see it is that whoever knows the server seed can cheat undetectably.  The server needs to have access to the seed to generate the rolls, and I need to have access to the server.

I imagine the equivalent in a real casino is someone invests in the casino, and the guys running the casino tell the investor "sorry, someone came in last night and won a bunch.  As a result, your investment isn't doing very well".  There don't need to be any rigged games - the owners can just lie to the investors directly.

The same goes for any other investment you can imagine.  When you buy Microsoft shares do you check every expense they file, or do you just trust that they're not buying hookers and blow with your investment and marking it down as R&D or some such other expense?  It seems to me you always have to trust the people running whatever you invest in.

[Dabs]

Nice. You should have left out the first sentence and the last one. I understand you probably want to say it anyway.

You seem to think that rephrasing honest words into something more palatable somehow makes everything better. It makes sense for sappy greeting cards, not so much for situations involving trust.

No, not exactly. It's what I consider the fine print, which you should know already. I was trying to make it a case of a simple and honest declaratory statement.

For example, I can say: I will not lie, cheat, or steal.

Then you can add a paragraph after that explaining in detail, but it doesn't really need to be said. Or right, maybe I'm just thinking about the greeting card niceness of it.

However, we're dealing with stuff that can not be proven or can not be detected. I'm pretty sure that what dooglus has just stated is honest and true and he just covered the bases. I'm also almost certain that he could have said he will never cheat at just-dice. Ever. And he will try to the best of his abilities to stick to that.

And then you have Yoda say, there is no try, just do.

I understand this is a trust issue. Best efforts aren't enough. You should do whatever it takes. (more sappy greeting card stuff.)

In the end, how much you trust something is shown by how much you invest in it.