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Author Topic: [2018-02-21] Venezuelan Petro on Pre-Sale, How Has it Been Received?  (Read 307 times)
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February 22, 2018, 10:33:39 AM
 #21

This "ICO" still have several issues which need to be clarified by the government:
  • The price of oil is volatile considering the complexity of the industry.
  • Oil is a depletable asset, and one cannot practically exchange Petro units for barrels of oil.
  • The Venezuelan opposition has labeled it as a scheme to enhance corruption since it is not regulated.
  • U.S. and EU have raised concerns regarding sanctions placed on Venezuela.
A lot of issues you noticed. I will never invest in such suspicious asset. I prefer trusted and well-capitalized coins. But maybe sometimes we can take a risk.
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February 22, 2018, 10:49:07 AM
 #22

  • The price of oil is volatile considering the complexity of the industry.

Not enough for maduro & friends, they still need to take so much advantage Tongue

  • Oil is a depletable asset, and one cannot practically exchange Petro units for barrels of oil.

Sure but be 100% that who need to made profit because of it, will made profit Smiley

  • The Venezuelan opposition has labeled it as a scheme to enhance corruption since it is not regulated.

Corruption? maduro? nono, this is impossible, you are wrong, this must be a joke Tongue

  • U.S. and EU have raised concerns regarding sanctions placed on Venezuela.

Why? there is nothing wrong, they invent that petro for the sake of the people...

Seriously, if you think that things are going wrong with this guy, just wait one or two years...

IMHO #1.b of suspects, Hal Finney is/was Satoshi Nakamoto
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February 22, 2018, 10:52:09 AM
 #23

i would never trust a coin made by Venezuela government

yeah much better to trust some random coin made by unknown people Smiley

The whole point of Satoshi Nakamoto's cryptocurrency design is that trust plays no role.

The code tells you exactly what it does, therefore you don't trust anything or anyone, you know how the coin works.

Vires in numeris
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February 22, 2018, 11:04:56 AM
 #24

I hope it will help Venezuela government to become more transparent and clear. This country really needs more control if we look at the crime and corruption rate.
There is no government in the wide world that needs more control! All of them need less of it!
Existence of governmental control equals to the existence of those who are in need of to be controlled - slaves.
Maybe it wasn't deliberate from your side but I feel like you believing that those who drove Venezuela to the bottom will somehow save it.
There is no salvation while socialist blood is running through ones veins.

i would never trust a coin made by Venezuela government
And so am I. For me a merit worthy half-liner.  Cool

Although I really doubt the long-term viability of this project, I am still wishing the people behind this Petro project good luck.
In essence you are wishing good luck to murderers and thieves... that's just great  Undecided

 
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Betwrong
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February 22, 2018, 02:41:50 PM
 #25

I think not only idiots and traders are buying this coin.

You're right, it's just idiots
 

@Carlton Banks

Thank you for giving my short reply so much attention, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with some of your statements.

People of Venezuela believe that Petro will be supported by the government

That's the best reason Venezuelans have not to use this new currency. The Venezuelan government tried this trick at least once recently (re-introduced the Bolivar as the "Fuerte Bolivar"). The "Fuerte" ("strong" in Spanish) version crashed just the same as the original.

Venezuelan people are unlikely to fall for the same trick 3 times.
 

Unfortunately it doesn't work like this in countries with an oppressive regime. People being deceived thousands of times before fall for another lie from the government as soon as it appears, and this process repeats itself again and again.


unlike other cryptos which being autocratic regime as they are they can simply ban.

The Venezuelan government did "simply" ban cryptocurrencies, and it simply didn't work. Now Maduro + cronies want to pretend it was their idea the whole time, lol

Since it "didn't work" it only means that the government didn't apply all the pressure they can to make the ban work, but they might in the future stating for example that the only legitimate crypto in the country is Petro.


It's possible that in the light of ongoing hyperinflation many citizens of Venezuela see the coin as their only hope in attempts of saving at least part of their life savings. Unless Maduro will be overthrown in April petro might survive the next couple of years imo.

Very unlikely. People have already invested in the now "legal" (lol) cryptocurrencies in Venezuela, they've already disposed of the worthless Venezuelan state issued money. They're starting from nothing in many ways, and very unlikely to trust a government managed currency for a long, long time. Hopefully never.


I seriously doubt that many people in Venezuela have invested their money in cryptocurrencies. Maybe 5% of the population, highly educated people,  did that indeed but not more than that. Don't forget that more than 1.5 million Venezuelans left the country following the Bolivarian Revolution and almost all them had higher level of education than average Venezuelans. In short, it is most likely that 95% of Venezuelans have never invested in any crypto, but they will now, after the government told them to do so.

I'm not supporting the Venezuelan government here, I hate such regimes with all my heart. And I'm not supporting Petro, a sh*tcoin as it is. But I do think that poor people will be investing in this coin heavily left with not much else to do.

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February 22, 2018, 03:45:16 PM
 #26

One more token launch announced by Nicolas Maduro Petro Gold Huh

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February 22, 2018, 07:33:48 PM
 #27

Who of you have participated in ICO? Do you have problems? I have received the confirmation mail, but the page for next step is not working...  Roll Eyes Huh

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February 23, 2018, 02:05:45 PM
 #28

Who of you have participated in ICO? Do you have problems? I have received the confirmation mail, but the page for next step is not working...  Roll Eyes Huh

May I ask why have you decided to participate in the ICO in the first place? Have you read all the replies in this thread or in this one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2984846.0 ? Also I recommend to read today's article in Cointelegraph: https://cointelegraph.com/news/petro-stable-coin-for-crypto-economy-or-illegal-oil-futures which analyzes El Petro white paper making some notable remarks such as:

Quote
Unfortunately, the Whitepaper is drafted in common language without any detail on an assumed technological base to launch a full-stack digital platform. Plans to develop such a platform are also absent.

and states in the conclusion

Quote
Taken Venezuela’s negative reputation on world financial markets, one might think twice about the promise of Petro.


Please do your own research if you want, but imo investing in Petro, apart from being morally wrong, is a pretty bad move financially speaking too.

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February 23, 2018, 02:59:33 PM
Merited by Betwrong (1)
 #29

The token sale is a shitshow.

Big surprise - the govt that can't even regulate its own shitty currency, the Bolivar, is lying/fabricating big "success" stories when they still haven't even decided which chain to host it on.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/02/venezuela-says-its-cryptocurrency-raised-735-million-but-its-a-farce/

They peg redemption to the oil assets priced in Bolivars, which means they can change the goalposts any time they want, without changing the token issuance. Anyone investing in this shithole-coin deserves their fate.

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February 23, 2018, 04:25:25 PM
Last edit: February 23, 2018, 04:36:54 PM by Canis Majoris
 #30

i would never trust a coin made by Venezuela government

yeah much better to trust some random coin made by unknown people Smiley

The whole point of Satoshi Nakamoto's cryptocurrency design is that trust plays no role.

The code tells you exactly what it does, therefore you don't trust anything or anyone, you know how the coin works.

Sorry if I'm missing something in the bigger picture, but even with a decentralized currency like Bitcoin you have to trust the network. And in case of Bitcoin specifically, you have to trust the consensus of miners, which can have their own agenda. And given heavy mining centralization as of recent, it doesn't look like particularly different from trusting a fiat currency printed by a central bank. It seems there is no way around this bottleneck, though I'm not very familiar with trust issues of POS coins which may be a way out.

On topic, I agree that this coin is mostly a ridiculous shit show.
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February 24, 2018, 09:49:25 AM
 #31

i would never trust a coin made by Venezuela government

yeah much better to trust some random coin made by unknown people Smiley

The whole point of Satoshi Nakamoto's cryptocurrency design is that trust plays no role.

The code tells you exactly what it does, therefore you don't trust anything or anyone, you know how the coin works.

Sorry if I'm missing something in the bigger picture, but even with a decentralized currency like Bitcoin you have to trust the network. And in case of Bitcoin specifically, you have to trust the consensus of miners, which can have their own agenda. And given heavy mining centralization as of recent, it doesn't look like particularly different from trusting a fiat currency printed by a central bank. It seems there is no way around this bottleneck, though I'm not very familiar with trust issues of POS coins which may be a way out.

On topic, I agree that this coin is mostly a ridiculous shit show.

I think this coin is not a "ridiculous shit show" as it is backed by real product
unlike most of the cryptocurrencies,treat this as the crypto fiat money just without the control of the central bank
I think this will be issued directly by the country itself,not associated with the international bankers
well it may become a failure if it is technically immature or has bad code
but if there is nothing wrong with the coding,this coin could be a success and help their dying economy
the preconceptions like "oh it is Venezuela,so it must be a failure" are based on stereotypical  fallacies,lets wait for the coin and then see

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February 24, 2018, 10:35:18 AM
 #32

The Venezuelan state did a good job.the support of countries for this sector is very important.I hope all states do good things..
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February 24, 2018, 11:30:18 AM
 #33

~
I think this coin is not a "ridiculous shit show" as it is backed by real product
unlike most of the cryptocurrencies,treat this as the crypto fiat money just without the control of the central bank
I think this will be issued directly by the country itself,not associated with the international bankers
well it may become a failure if it is technically immature or has bad code
but if there is nothing wrong with the coding,this coin could be a success and help their dying economy
the preconceptions like "oh it is Venezuela,so it must be a failure" are based on stereotypical  fallacies,lets wait for the coin and then see

The thing is that it is not backed actually, they are lying. Let me explain. According to the Venezuelan government's website the price of Petro will depend on the price of a barrel of Venezuelan oil from the previous day. Say I have 1,000 Petro and since the oil price was $60 yesterday will they pay me $60k for my coins? No. Why no, because they don't have the money because of the economic sanctions they deprived of hard currency themselves. In that case they would probably say "We are sorry, but we can't pay right now because our country is experiencing rough times, bla bla bla." And those "rough times" will be lasting forever for poor citizens while the elite will be living in easy street like always in countries under dictatorial regimes.

No, Petro will not help their dying economy. The electoral fairness would do the trick imo.

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February 27, 2018, 02:37:39 PM
 #34

~
I think this coin is not a "ridiculous shit show" as it is backed by real product
unlike most of the cryptocurrencies,treat this as the crypto fiat money just without the control of the central bank
I think this will be issued directly by the country itself,not associated with the international bankers
well it may become a failure if it is technically immature or has bad code
but if there is nothing wrong with the coding,this coin could be a success and help their dying economy
the preconceptions like "oh it is Venezuela,so it must be a failure" are based on stereotypical  fallacies,lets wait for the coin and then see

The thing is that it is not backed actually, they are lying. Let me explain. According to the Venezuelan government's website the price of Petro will depend on the price of a barrel of Venezuelan oil from the previous day. Say I have 1,000 Petro and since the oil price was $60 yesterday will they pay me $60k for my coins? No. Why no, because they don't have the money because of the economic sanctions they deprived of hard currency themselves. In that case they would probably say "We are sorry, but we can't pay right now because our country is experiencing rough times, bla bla bla." And those "rough times" will be lasting forever for poor citizens while the elite will be living in easy street like always in countries under dictatorial regimes.

No, Petro will not help their dying economy. The electoral fairness would do the trick imo.

Oh that's terrible news for investors and mostly people from Venezuela. I bet they trust these politicans and bring money for them.
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February 27, 2018, 02:58:22 PM
 #35

Who would want a currency backed by a failed state?  Hell, we don't want currency from a successful state.
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March 13, 2018, 01:47:59 PM
 #36

Who would want a currency backed by a failed state?  Hell, we don't want currency from a successful state.
 Roll Eyes
I don't want a currency from any state.
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March 13, 2018, 07:48:38 PM
 #37

~
I think this coin is not a "ridiculous shit show" as it is backed by real product
unlike most of the cryptocurrencies,treat this as the crypto fiat money just without the control of the central bank
I think this will be issued directly by the country itself,not associated with the international bankers
well it may become a failure if it is technically immature or has bad code
but if there is nothing wrong with the coding,this coin could be a success and help their dying economy
the preconceptions like "oh it is Venezuela,so it must be a failure" are based on stereotypical  fallacies,lets wait for the coin and then see

The thing is that it is not backed actually, they are lying. Let me explain. According to the Venezuelan government's website the price of Petro will depend on the price of a barrel of Venezuelan oil from the previous day. Say I have 1,000 Petro and since the oil price was $60 yesterday will they pay me $60k for my coins? No. Why no, because they don't have the money because of the economic sanctions they deprived of hard currency themselves. In that case they would probably say "We are sorry, but we can't pay right now because our country is experiencing rough times, bla bla bla." And those "rough times" will be lasting forever for poor citizens while the elite will be living in easy street like always in countries under dictatorial regimes.

No, Petro will not help their dying economy. The electoral fairness would do the trick imo.

You are most likely right, in effect. However, the Venezuelan government didn't promise to pay dollars for their petrocoins. As far as I got it, petro is backed up by crude oil as the name itself suggests, so they can always claim that they are ready to pay in barrels of crude oil. Whether they are really going to pay with their oil to whoever demands them to redeem this currency is another question, though. Other than that, I agree that no one wants a currency backed by a failed state like Zimbabwe or Venezuela.
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March 13, 2018, 08:49:46 PM
 #38

Venezuela has so much oil it should be the richest country in South america and on par with the other developed countries in the world. However, incompetence at the highest level has destroyed their economy and now they are switching to crypto as a bail out. I wouldn't trust petro, but it is a good experiment to see if it works as a national currency.

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March 14, 2018, 08:25:04 PM
 #39

Venezuela has so much oil it should be the richest country in South america and on par with the other developed countries in the world. However, incompetence at the highest level has destroyed their economy and now they are switching to crypto as a bail out. I wouldn't trust petro, but it is a good experiment to see if it works as a national currency.

It is hard to say really. Before Hugo Chavez, oil was in the hands of multinational corporations, so simple people didn't receive anything from the oil-pie. After oil had been nationalized, these corporations weren't happy obviously, and they likely tried out everything in their power to overthrow the Venezuelan government regardless of the needs of simple people and their suffering, as ever before. Though this doesn't take anything from the incompetence of the local government, of course.
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March 14, 2018, 08:36:13 PM
 #40

I mentioned this already in other communities, but just ask yourself following questions before spending any money:

- what happens if the Venezuelan government goes into bankruptcy, will the so backed oil be accessible?
- Majority invest in cryptocurrencies because the expect growth potential. A barrel is worth a barrel in 2030. Maybe it can protect your investments from inflation but nothing more.
- There won't be any place soon to spend your petros. And I expect nobody of us will go to Venezuela for shopping at goverment regualated food stores or paying taxes there.
- So if it's backed by real oil. I don't believe they have 100,000,000 barrels of oil standing around, ready if someone wants to change his tokens into real value. And out in a underdeveloped oil field it's worth nothing....
- If this article is true, they are selling with a 60% discount. That talks for itself. https://news.bitcoin.com/venezuela-considers-selling-its-oil-backed-cryptocurrency-with-a-60-discount


Whitepaper: http://www.elpetro.gob.ve/Whitepaper_Petro_en.pdf
Interesting Article on steemit: https://steemit.com/venezuela/@alemacgo/the-truth-about-the-petro-launch

Enjoy and have a good laugh, just don't invest a penny....

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