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OgNasty
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February 22, 2018, 05:21:14 PM
 #1

On February 4th, Sherlock_er initiated an escrow for a trade he was engaging in.  Since that time he has not provided me with any tracking information and the buyer claims the tracking information provided was not legitimate.  Sherlock_er has ignored multiple requests from me to provide legitimate tracking information, as he promised the items would ship quickly.

Fast forward to 2/18 and I told Sherlock_er to provide me with the shipping details.  At that point he provided only the buyer with fraudulent tracking info (per buyer).  This annoyed me so I sent him a message telling him I would leave him negative trust and release the funds back to the buyer unless he responded.  It is at that point he stopped logging in.

Pretty clear that I'm being setup for a claim that I released escrow to the buyer wrongfully, but it's been multiple weeks with no tracking info, no response to my requests, and I feel that the time has come to give the funds back to the buyer.

I left negative trust to Sherlock_er and expect that as soon as I release escrow back to the buyer, suddenly a tracking number and scam attempt will appear.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1590856

My question is, since it has been 18 days now with no tracking information provided to me by the seller, is it acceptable to release the funds back to the buyer.  If not, what actions could I take that wouldn't result in me being entrapped in a scam accusation?

Note: I figure it's better to wait and make this entrapment scheme perfectly clear prior to releasing the funds back, as these scammers aren't intelligent, but are tenacious. 

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February 22, 2018, 06:09:24 PM
 #2

On February 4th, Sherlock_er initiated an escrow for a trade he was engaging in.  Since that time he has not provided me with any tracking information and the buyer claims the tracking information provided was not legitimate.  Sherlock_er has ignored multiple requests from me to provide legitimate tracking information, as he promised the items would ship quickly.

Fast forward to 2/18 and I told Sherlock_er to provide me with the shipping details.  At that point he provided only the buyer with fraudulent tracking info (per buyer).  This annoyed me so I sent him a message telling him I would leave him negative trust and release the funds back to the buyer unless he responded.  It is at that point he stopped logging in.

Pretty clear that I'm being setup for a claim that I released escrow to the buyer wrongfully, but it's been multiple weeks with no tracking info, no response to my requests, and I feel that the time has come to give the funds back to the buyer.

I left negative trust to Sherlock_er and expect that as soon as I release escrow back to the buyer, suddenly a tracking number and scam attempt will appear.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1590856

My question is, since it has been 18 days now with no tracking information provided to me by the seller, is it acceptable to release the funds back to the buyer.  If not, what actions could I take that wouldn't result in me being entrapped in a scam accusation?

Note: I figure it's better to wait and make this entrapment scheme perfectly clear prior to releasing the funds back, as these scammers aren't intelligent, but are tenacious. 

Based on that i think you are safe releasing the funds back to the buyer(s).

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OgNasty
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February 22, 2018, 06:29:00 PM
Merited by Rmcdermott927 (10), Patatas (2)
 #3

Where’s the scam patrol crew on this one?  Why didn’t they tag this user?  They have opinions on every user on the forum, but when a scammer gets caught in the act suddenly they’re nowhere to be found. I wonder why...

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February 22, 2018, 06:48:49 PM
 #4

I am the buyer in this transaction. This was my first attempted purchase through this forum and I believe some of my own foolishness/ naiveté contributed to making this a difficult escrow for OgNasty.

Shortly after escrow was initiated, Sherlock began communicating with me directly via email. Big mistake on my part. Sherlock was far more responsive via email than via forum pm and provided me with the "shipping" information over email. The "shipping" website provided was www.voanexpressltd.com . This immediately worried me, as I had never heard of this company and their website was incredibly shoddy. After some googling, this website was linked to a number of different scams/sites, a number of which actually shared the exact same website design elements. After asking Sherlock about these disturbing details, he stopped communicating with me via email. I also asked the same questions over PM with both Sherlock and OgNasty so that Og would have visibility and included the shipping details that Sherlock had provided directly to me. Sherlock never addressed these questions and, after a number of days of inactivity (over a week), replied that he had paid for shipping. That was the only detail he provided, not the shipping information he had provided to me nor new shipping information. It was also at this time that shipping information for my order started coming back as invalid on the site.

I have not received the Antminer R4 I attempted to purchase through escrow. I have not received shipping information which shows something has even attempted to be delivered (at the last update on the scam site it said the package was in the UK, no details on where in the UK nor information on what it was doing in the UK, e.g. customs, changing shipping partners...). In addition, the seller has still not provided any shipping details directly with the escrow OgNasty.

This has been an eye opening experience for me in regards to purchasing through this forum and I appreciate all that OgNasty has done to adjudicate this transaction, protecting both my BTC and providing the seller with an abundance of time with which to do the right thing.

I am cautious to provide the actual shipping number as when it worked, it showed my address.

Edit: Refund Address: 3AnLHEMaMDbxswREwqnvTUzRJn7b1HeYGh

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February 22, 2018, 09:44:05 PM
 #5

We have a saying at work. “Procedure is written in blood”

Perhaps for the future, add a clause into your escrow contact with some sort of time limit for people involved in an escrow agreement to respond by.  For example “if a dispute arises on either side, the other party has 7 days to reply to forum PM communications or funds/merchandise will be sent to the party that initiated the dispute”

If you attempted forum PM’s and communication to the email address the seller was communicating with the buyer on, I would say you are safe at this point to release the funds.  If you have not contacted them via email, perhaps send an email simply stating “please check your forum pm’s in regards to your escrow transaction.”, then give an additional 3 days to respond. 

It’s fairly obvious what is going on though.  It’s an attempt to get you to either screw up or to bring an accusation against you.  All you can do is cover yourself and I believe you have done that here. 

PM me to rent my signature.
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February 23, 2018, 12:35:00 AM
 #6

His (sherlock) posts in the marketplace area did seem kind of shady, I wish I would have wrote a comment earlier.

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February 23, 2018, 12:35:14 AM
 #7

I'd say with the lack of communication from the seller that a refund would be warranted.  He's had plenty of opportunity to reply to you guys individually and also to the forum sales post where he was being called out on for using the scam shipping website.  Just my 2 cents.  
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February 23, 2018, 02:25:35 AM
 #8

I'd say with the lack of communication from the seller that a refund would be warranted.  He's had plenty of opportunity to reply to you guys individually and also to the forum sales post where he was being called out on for using the scam shipping website.  Just my 2 cents.  


Couldn't agree more! Thank you for weighing in.

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February 23, 2018, 07:30:10 AM
 #9

Where’s the scam patrol crew on this one?  Why didn’t they tag this user?  They have opinions on every user on the forum, but when a scammer gets caught in the act suddenly they’re nowhere to be found. I wonder why...

Gave him a tag. In general, I don't like to give negative feedback on scam accusations without PM/screenshot evidence of the deal in question. In this case, it's pretty clear cut, but I think it's best practice to include that info if you want others to tag too.
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February 23, 2018, 07:36:22 AM
 #10

Where’s the scam patrol crew on this one?  Why didn’t they tag this user?  They have opinions on every user on the forum, but when a scammer gets caught in the act suddenly they’re nowhere to be found. I wonder why...

Gave him a tag. In general, I don't like to give negative feedback on scam accusations without PM/screenshot evidence of the deal in question. In this case, it's pretty clear cut, but I think it's best practice to include that info if you want others to tag too.

Thank you.  In this case, the evidence would expose the buyer's address.  The only other evidence is the lack of communication.  Mostly I wanted to document it in public and get multiple confirmations from community members that the right thing to do at this point is to refund the buyer before doing so.  That way it will be crystal clear what happened if the seller magically appears with a scam accusation right after I refund the buyer.

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February 23, 2018, 07:46:03 AM
 #11

Where’s the scam patrol crew on this one?  Why didn’t they tag this user?  They have opinions on every user on the forum, but when a scammer gets caught in the act suddenly they’re nowhere to be found. I wonder why...

Gave him a tag. In general, I don't like to give negative feedback on scam accusations without PM/screenshot evidence of the deal in question. In this case, it's pretty clear cut, but I think it's best practice to include that info if you want others to tag too.

Thank you.  In this case, the evidence would expose the buyer's address.  The only other evidence is the lack of communication.  Mostly I wanted to document it in public and get multiple confirmations from community members that the right thing to do at this point is to refund the buyer before doing so.  That way it will be crystal clear what happened if the seller magically appears with a scam accusation right after I refund the buyer.

Since i'm not in DT, a neg tag from me wouldn't really help your cause, if it was helping i'd probably tag him.
If i understand correctly, the last communication you had with him was only 5 days ago? I'd probably wait another 3 days before releasing the escrow, that way it would be a full week without response, and you would have covered your tracks by making this problem public 3 days before actually initiating a refund.
Don't get me wrong: if you initiated a refund today, i'd still think this was fair, since the seller didn't provide reliable tracking info within 18 days.

In any case, i'm going to bookmark this thread to refer to as a perfect example the next time i'm telling a newbie to use an escrow service... This is a standard case to proof why escrow services are badly needed, you probably saved the seller...

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February 23, 2018, 08:37:40 PM
 #12

OK. It looks like he finally logged in again and ignored all my PMs. I feel safe refunding the buyer now.

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February 23, 2018, 08:48:28 PM
 #13

OK. It looks like he finally logged in again and ignored all my PMs. I feel safe refunding the buyer now.

Thank you, and I'm sorry my choice of seller wasted both of our time!

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February 24, 2018, 06:46:31 AM
 #14

Where’s the scam patrol crew on this one?  Why didn’t they tag this user?  They have opinions on every user on the forum, but when a scammer gets caught in the act suddenly they’re nowhere to be found. I wonder why...

Hi ya Og,

You posted your report some 36 hours ago, and you gave it sixty-eight minutes before you asked where others are...

Well, here I am.

All I can do is splash some Red Paint TM on their trust wall and hope for the best given I'm not on the DT.

I haven't read the full thread, but from your first post I would firstly ask, what's the item? What was the agreed shipping method? What was the actual tracking number given? (forget that it's an invalid number, what is it? - Why I ask is that s/he may have used it in other scams, if it's posted here and they go on to use the tracking number via another UID, then it can be traced back to this transaction & scammer)

Things to consider: how reasonable a length of time for the item to be delivered?  (eg if it's a desk, it probably will travel by road or rail not air freight)  Has the seller/sender stated it's on its way and what reasonable steps have they taken to track down the item from the sellers location and is there any correspondence (even if it's screen shots) from the company tasked with shipping.

Same goes for the buyer, have they contacted the tracking company from their end? (if not, ask yourself why not?)

I don't think you should return the funds to the buyer just yet until information asked above have been provided so that the scam patrol crew that you have asked for an opinion have had a chance to go over the information and test the strength or otherwise of this case.

As would be told to any-other person wanting to make a scam report:

Scam Report Format

Code:
[b][color=black]What happened:: [/color][/b]

[b][color=black]Scammers Profile Link: [/color][/b]

[b][color=black]Reference Link: [/color][/b]
[b][color=black]Amount Scammed: [/color][/b]
[b][color=black]Payment Method: [/color][/b]
[b][color=black]Proof of Payment: [/color][/b]
[b][color=black]PM/Chat Logs: [/color][/b]
[b][color=black]Additional Notes: [/color][/b]
Copy and paste it in new thread then fill all data.

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March 02, 2018, 01:22:39 AM
Merited by vegascoinpool (1)
 #15

As an update (forgot to do so earlier). 

Escrow was refunded to the buyer days ago.  I never got a response from the scammer.

/thread.

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