Bitcoin Forum
November 18, 2017, 06:38:46 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: do we need the blockchain?  (Read 3315 times)
ronimacarroni
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126



View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:49:51 PM
 #1

I've noticed a few flaws with the blockchain model.
Among those are.

1.You need to create new blocks in order to make transactions, making it impossible for the crypto currency to ever be completely finite.
2.You need to download the blockchain every time you fire up the wallet which becomes increasingly heavier with time
3.You need miners to protect the blockchain
4.All your transactions are saved on the blockchain
5.Transaction time is dependant on the creation of new blocks

Even the argument that it makes things more decentralized doesn't hold up since we all know mining becomes more centralized with time anyways.

Now I'm not saying this will affect bitcoins in any major way, but I think if someone were to come up with another cryptocurrency in the future they should do away with the concept of blockchain altogether.

Said currency should
1.start off centralised
2.given away to make it more decentralised.
3.make the transactions work through another method like IRC

This would make transactions instant, anonymous and there wouldn't be a need for miners.

Sort of like ripple I guess.

Am I right or am I wrong?

 
1510987126
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1510987126

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1510987126
Reply with quote  #2

1510987126
Report to moderator
Coinlancer is Disrupting the Freelance marketplace!
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1510987126
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1510987126

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1510987126
Reply with quote  #2

1510987126
Report to moderator
franky1
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1862



View Profile
September 24, 2013, 02:01:21 PM
 #2

to avoid a double spend there needs to be a database to store information about who owns a particular amount of cents/satoshi/pennies. over time this database will grow..

so even if it was not a blockchain, a distributed ledger with transaction history would still grow.
imagine it this way:

take the US cent. each cent would have a digital signature to identify it, to make every cent accountable and able to be linked to a particular person. every 10 minutes 325,000 cents are created (equivalent to 25BTC at $130) and no more then this amount can be created due to each signature being designated to a particular coin in some fashion.
that is 325,000 new database entries every 10 minutes. and then when small amounts of them are moved between parties the searching the database for each signature, and swapping ownership in a way that is impossible to double spend or manipulate and then validate the completed transaction went seemlessly would cause huge delays.

knowing that in just 4 years 68,328,000,000 entries will need to be made just to identify every cent created WITHOUT even including a transaction ledger. imagine the database size.

lets say a cent needed a minimum of 12 digit hex code as its signature, to ensure no duplicate transactions (id recommend more though)

12bytes=819936000000bytes
=800718750KB(divide 1024 not 1000)
=781951.9MB(divide 1024 not 1000)
=763.6GB(divide 1024 not 1000)

this is the size of a database ONLY storing data of fresh made coins over a 4 year period, equivelent to making 25x$130 every 10 minutes.

no transactions...
now imagine it had to be 8 decimals that needed to be accountable...

satoshi nakamoto has actually made a brilliant way to secure double spending, make every satoshi accountable and ensure that manipulation cant happen... at a far far far less storage requirement then a FIAT system would need

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Don't take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist.
Rannasha
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 02:23:21 PM
 #3

Your proposed solution removes most of the strengths of Bitcoin. You start with a centralized distribution point. Why should whoever operates this decide who gets the coins? You want to remove the blockchain, but how then can we verify what balance you have? Someone has to keep track or I could just spend my coins many times over. This database has to either be centralized or decentralized.

In the centralized case, how exactly is it different from a government issueing money? Except that it won't be the gov't, but some company or organization. Same thing really, the currency can be inflated at will and the organization can decide to not include transactions it doesn't like.

If you store the ledger in a decentralized way, how are you going to resolve conflicts between different parties making different claims. If I claim that you sent me 10 coins and have my copy of the ledger to prove it, while you claim you didn't send the coins and have your ledger to prove it, who of us forged the ledger?
Come-from-Beyond
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764

Newbie


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 05:34:04 PM
 #4

Now I'm not saying this will affect bitcoins in any major way, but I think if someone were to come up with another cryptocurrency in the future they should do away with the concept of blockchain altogether.

Already. Follow the link in my signature.
gmaxwell
Moderator
Legendary
*
qt
Offline Offline

Activity: 2338



View Profile
September 24, 2013, 05:44:13 PM
 #5

I've noticed a few flaws with
your understanding.

Thats okay, we can help.

Quote
1.You need to create new blocks in order to make transactions, making it impossible for the crypto currency to ever be completely finite.
Not so, blocks don't need to generate coins, and a geometric decline is finite even if you don't go to zero (though bitcoin will go to zero).

Quote
2.You need to download the blockchain every time you fire up the wallet which becomes increasingly heavier with time
Then use a lite client.

Quote
5.Transaction time is dependant on the creation of new blocks
Transactions are "instant": the transaction is known to you as soon as you've heard of it. They become increasingly irreversible over time.

Quote
since we all know mining becomes more centralized with time anyways
There is no reason I'm aware of why that must be so.

Quote
3.make the transactions work through another method like IRC
You can send txn over IRC if you want.

Quote
Am I right or am I wrong?
Mining exists to solve the double spending problem, you've not suggested an alternative to achieve that. What is the point of your message and why is it in the technical subforum?


Bitcoin will not be compromised
LeTanque
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 85


Fortune favors the bold and brave


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 06:05:30 PM
 #6

Dear OP, with all due respect, I couldn't make it past your third item before immediately putting together this response.

Do some research and then come back to revise your post.  I suggest reading the white paper and searching through btctalk threads.  You have fundamental misunderstandings and an obvious lack of background on the available resources.

Take care!

"It is a mistake to suppose that any technological innovation has a one-sided effect. Every technology is both a burden and a blessing; not either-or, but this-and-that." -Neil Postman Technopoly
1FooDLuTYk782GQNrY7zY1obTc4ceUfj5t
DannyHamilton
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1974



View Profile
September 25, 2013, 07:27:22 PM
 #7

Please don't feed the trolls.

coastermonger
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 367

Find me at Bitrated


View Profile
September 25, 2013, 07:51:12 PM
 #8

Yes we need the blockchain.  While not absolutely perfect, it's a completely elegant solution for forcing millions of self-serving, mutually antagonistic, error-prone humans to come together and agree on a mutual history.

Bitrated user: Rees.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!