[closed] Request 40 btc @ 14.5% through btcjam: refinance KNC Saturn

[mytey]

updated to better reflect the accuracy of the request
https://btcjam.com/listings/7033

The rate is 2% per payment period, which results in ~14.5% over the life of the loan, 365 days
Loan Calculator
Number of payments: 13
Payments of:  3.52473411
Total paid:    45.821543
On the 10th of every month

I am looking to refinance my KNC Miner purchase. I used my credit card and would like to move the interest payments into the bitcoin community.

I purchased the miner w/ 6 month hosting for a total of $5195

I am fully paid on the miner and it should be delivered no later than mid-October.

The miner will be collateral for this loan if the loan becomes defaulted. (any rec. on how to make this official/binding?)
If I default on the loan in the first 6 months,  the miner and hosting account will be transferred to the lender(s)
If I default on the loan after 6 months, the miner will be sent to the lender(s)

I intend to pay this in 180 days, but the term is for 365 days.

Please message me with any questions.

Thank you bitcoin community, you rock!

[Vod]

So you will ship the miner to the lender until the loan is repaid?

[mytey]

Only if I default on the loan:
-While hosted, The miner and hosting account will be transferred to the lender(s)
-After 6 months, the miner will be sent to the lender(s)

[mytey]

The intent is for me to continue to mine while moving the debt from Mastercard to btcJam.

[KWH]

Only if I default on the loan:
-While hosted, The miner and hosting account will be transferred to the lender(s)
-After 6 months, the miner will be sent to the lender(s)

Sorry but that isn't collateral.

[mytey]

are you saying that what i described doesn't fit the definition of collateral?

or

that it doesn't hold enough value to be collateral?

[KWH]

are you saying that what i described doesn't fit the definition of collateral?

or

that it doesn't hold enough value to be collateral?

You can't hold the collateral on your own loan or it isn't collateral. Collateral usually needs to exceed the value of the loan to be a worthwhile risk.

[Vod]

The miner will be collateral for this loan if the loan becomes defaulted. (any rec. on how to make this official/binding?)
If I default on the loan in the first 6 months,  the miner and hosting account will be transferred to the lender(s)
If I default on the loan after 6 months, the miner will be sent to the lender(s)

If you borrow coins from someone here, you will be in a legal agreement to pay it back.
If you don't honor that agreement, you want us to believe you would honor your agreement to ship the miner?   

The miner must be shipped to the lender BEFORE you receive and coins.  You get it back once you pay back the loan.

Plus you should put up at least 40% of the cost yourself, and ask for a loan for the other 60%.  No one will fund 100% when they can buy it themselves.

Are you still interested in a loan?

[mytey]

Apologies from my ignorance,  I pulled my idea of collateral from the wiki article:
"If a borrower does default on a loan (due to insolvency or other event), that borrower forfeits (gives up) the property pledged as collateral—and the lender then becomes the owner of the collateral."
Based on the above, I deduced that the borrower still retains ownership unless the borrower defaults.

Also, how does it work in an auto loan or mortgage.  The borrower still has the ability to use the item, while the item itself is the only security that the lender has, correct?

Clearly I am confused, do you have a better reference for me to look at?  

[Vod]

Apologies from my ignorance,  I pulled my idea of collateral from the wiki article:
"If a borrower does default on a loan (due to insolvency or other event), that borrower forfeits (gives up) the property pledged as collateral—and the lender then becomes the owner of the collateral."
Based on the above, I deduced that the borrower still retains ownership unless the borrower defaults.

This is correct.  You do still own the miner until you default.  You just don't have possession of it.

[mytey]

If you don't honor that agreement, you want us to believe you would honor your agreement to ship the miner?

I asked in the initial post if there was a way to make that agreement binding.  There would be no honor system.  I there a common method to do that?  A contract, or third party trustee that has access to the miner?

[Vod]

If you don't honor that agreement, you want us to believe you would honor your agreement to ship the miner?

I asked in the initial post if there was a way to make that agreement binding.  There would be no honor system.  I there a common method to do that?  A contract, or third party trustee that has access to the miner?

Yes, you could ship the miner to a neutral third party - that's called escrow.

[mytey]

But that would defeat the purpose of the 6 months of hosting I paid for

If I emailed KNC miner about adding the third party escrow to the account and have the future shipping address changed to their address, would that be suitable?

Or is there no good way to go about this while retaining the hosting package with KNC?

[Vod]

But that would defeat the purpose of the 6 months of hosting I paid for

If I emailed KNC miner about adding the third party escrow to the account and have the future shipping address changed to their address, would that be suitable?

Or is there no good way to go about this while retaining the hosting package with KNC?

Well....

First of all you took out a "reputation loan" for 1btc.  This gives you a reputation of a possible scammer.
https://btcjam.com/listings/6966

Now you are asking for around $6,000 to buy something that will never make that amount back in it's lifetime.  Maybe it will make back 60%.

There is no possible way you are going to get this loan without:

1) Putting up at least 40% of the cost yourself.  Most lenders would probably ask for more.
2) Having the miner shipped to the lender or another third party until the 60% is paid off, then the miner is shipped to you.

If you want to host with KNC, I suggest going to a bank or relative for the money.  You won't get it here.  

[KWH]

But that would defeat the purpose of the 6 months of hosting I paid for

If I emailed KNC miner about adding the third party escrow to the account and have the future shipping address changed to their address, would that be suitable?

Or is there no good way to go about this while retaining the hosting package with KNC?

No. In case of default you could yell fraud, hackers or whatever. When you buy a car on credit, the title stays with the place that did the loan. In a default situation, they repossess your car. They also run a credit check beforehand to see if you even qualify for the loan. Your credit score takes a huge hit once a loan is defaulted and you can/will be sued or wages garnished to satisfy the loan obligation. None of these protections will be in place for your loan.
Do you have something of greater than loan value you would ship to the lender to hold?

[AndrewWilliams]

40 BTC is a lot of coin bro.

But I think the fact you are going to be using it to buy a miner is a fundamental flaw.

The common consensus is that buying mining hardware is not profitable.





And KWH is right.

In short, mining hardware does not have title to it, not something that will go up for repossession if you don't pay the loan.


That said, for 40 BTC you need to step up and put something valuable up for collateral with a 3rd party or the lender.

Signing over your car title and placing it with escrow might do it...

[mytey]

To Vod's last post:

I understand the rep loan thing now, and it was a bad idea.  I saw people all over btcJam doing it, so i jumped off the bridge, too.

I have put up all of the cost already.  It is bought and paid for.  This loan was meant to move the debt from my CC to bitcoin.

If i reduced the ask to 40-60% of the cost, would that be more reasonable?

And KHW's post:

Regarding lender protection, btcJam offers arbitration, is this not recognized by the bitcointalk.org community?
3. International Arbitration
Any controversy or claim arising out of or relating to this contract, or the breach of this contract, shall be settled by binding internet arbitration at net-arb.com. The arbitrator's decision shall be final and legally binding and judgment may be entered thereon.

No I don't have something of greater value to put in escrow that I can relenquish.  I have my car and computer.  Both of which I need to make money and aren't worth 40btc combined.

In the end thank you both for the knowledge, I will keep this on my CC bill.  I will mark this loan as canceled.

[Vod]

You still may get someone to lend you a percentage of the loan (save you some cc interest charges) but you will have to ship the miner to them.  Good luck! 

[mytey]

You still may get someone to lend you a percentage of the loan (save you some cc interest charges) but you will have to ship the miner to them.  Good luck! 

well i will cancel it now that I understand the concept of collateral more.  Also, those loans don't fund unless they get at least 70% of the asking amount.

Thanks again. tips incoming!

[Vod]

You still may get someone to lend you a percentage of the loan (save you some cc interest charges) but you will have to ship the miner to them.  Good luck! 

well i will cancel it now that I understand the concept of collateral more.  Also, those loans don't fund unless they get at least 70% of the asking amount.

Thanks again. tips incoming!

Thank you for the tip!