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Question: Since July 2013 over 2,010,365 BTC representing 17.1% of all Bitcoins in circulations have been wagered through Just-Dice.com, a bitcoin dice game.  Is this good or bad for the future of bitcoin?
Good - It all about the velocity of money
Good - It is an exampe of where bitcoin has advantages to other forms of currency
Neutral - Who cares?
Bad - Bitcoin does not need the negative publicity as a medium for online gambling
Bad - It not healthy for so much of a currency to move through so few venues

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Author Topic: 17% of Bitcoins wagered through Just-Dice in 2 Months. Is this good or bad?  (Read 3480 times)
mechs
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September 25, 2013, 07:38:34 PM
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So, earlier today, Just-Dice.com has passed 2 Million bitcoins wagered in a little over 2 months.  This represents 17.1% of all bitcoins currently in existance.  Amazingly, with this volume, the casino is at a 2250 BTC LOSS! Regardless, is this good or bad milestone for Bitcoins?
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Rannasha
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September 25, 2013, 07:44:45 PM
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The statistic of "17% of all Bitcoins" is incredibly misleading. A huge part of the total wagered amount on JD comes from a single gambler, placing many 100+ BTC bets at 49.5% odds (before the max bet size was lowered today anyway). With a large enough bankroll, you can generate enormous volume with a very small risk of going bankrupt, which is exactly what was going on.

It's also not really a good indication for the velocity of Bitcoins as a currency, since all this volume remains internal.
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September 25, 2013, 07:46:55 PM
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Don't people constantly move coins in and out of the site? How can you say it all internal?
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September 25, 2013, 07:49:06 PM
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Don't people constantly move coins in and out of the site? How can you say it all internal?

The amount wagered is all from internal action. From an economical point of view, having the same volume on, say, a merchant is much more meaningful than a the total wagered amount on a dice-site.
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September 25, 2013, 07:51:04 PM
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Don't people constantly move coins in and out of the site? How can you say it all internal?

The amount wagered is all from internal action. From an economical point of view, having the same volume on, say, a merchant is much more meaningful than a the total wagered amount on a dice-site.
Why is the volume through a casino any less economically meaningful than through a merchant?
mechs
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September 25, 2013, 07:56:57 PM
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Such volume makes Just-Dice a great fee mixing service (just don't gamble your coins away)
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September 25, 2013, 08:00:19 PM
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if you win you can send the coins again.

I would speculate that its more like 0.1% of the coins used over and over making it look like 17% of all bitcoin.

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September 25, 2013, 08:46:20 PM
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This topic is unfortunately very misleading.  If I bet 10 Bitcoins 100 times at 99% win odds, that would be 1,000 Bitcoins wagered.  The amount of Bitcoins wagered is a fine way to compare casinos, but using it as a stat compared to the rest of the economy is 100% wrong.  17% of Bitcoins wagered through Just-Dice in 20 Months is not accurate.
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September 25, 2013, 11:05:30 PM
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This topic is unfortunately very misleading.  If I bet 10 Bitcoins 100 times at 99% win odds, that would be 1,000 Bitcoins wagered.  The amount of Bitcoins wagered is a fine way to compare casinos, but using it as a stat compared to the rest of the economy is 100% wrong.  17% of Bitcoins wagered through Just-Dice in 20 Months is not accurate.
It was in 2 months.
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September 26, 2013, 01:15:22 AM
 #10

Using dice sites with bitcoins wagered stats is misleading.

Because eventually, the bitcoins wagered will exceed the maximum amount of bitcoins in existence.

Wagered actually means what was bet, and the coins are reusable. If I bet and win, and I bet again, it's the same coins being bet. If I bet and lose, and I bet again, then maybe that is more accurate.

But people do not lose all the time. They lose depending on the percentage chance to win.

Also, JD is off-chain, meaning all action is internal. You don't see any action on the blockchain unlike SD where everything is in the blockchain. But people don't like that either because it's polluting or bloating or spam.

You only see deposits and withdrawals, and since it uses bitcoind which generates new addresses all the time, we can miss out on much of the transactions.

The only thing we can see for sure are the JD cold storage and online storage and part of the hot wallet.

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mechs
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September 26, 2013, 02:11:10 AM
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Using dice sites with bitcoins wagered stats is misleading.

Because eventually, the bitcoins wagered will exceed the maximum amount of bitcoins in existence.

Wagered actually means what was bet, and the coins are reusable. If I bet and win, and I bet again, it's the same coins being bet. If I bet and lose, and I bet again, then maybe that is more accurate.

But people do not lose all the time. They lose depending on the percentage chance to win.

Also, JD is off-chain, meaning all action is internal. You don't see any action on the blockchain unlike SD where everything is in the blockchain. But people don't like that either because it's polluting or bloating or spam.

You only see deposits and withdrawals, and since it uses bitcoind which generates new addresses all the time, we can miss out on much of the transactions.

The only thing we can see for sure are the JD cold storage and online storage and part of the hot wallet.
I am not sure just because the transactions occur off-block chain that it makes them any less significant.  True you do not see all the dust spam like with on-block transactions by entities such as SatoshiDice, but the coins transfer you see in and out are quite large my quantity. 

It seems that online gambling has been a hit for bitcoin, but this may not be a good thing due to bad publicity for policy makers.  I suspect the psuedoanonymity also will work out well for porn sites who will start adopting it with time.  Noone wants that foot-fetish site to show up on the family credit card statement. But I suppose, porn and gsmbling and the vices are always the innovators.  I remember pay-per-view and DVDs got big with porn well before mainstream media.
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September 26, 2013, 07:45:11 AM
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Noone wants that foot-fetish site to show up on the family credit card statement. But I suppose, porn and gsmbling and the vices are always the innovators.  I remember pay-per-view and DVDs got big with porn well before mainstream media.

You don't use a shared credit card for porn. So many offers out there. Get a card for porn, another card for gambling, and the family card for grocery shopping. Keep your stuff separate.

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September 26, 2013, 10:44:24 AM
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I feel its portraying a negative image on bitcoins as a currency used for drugs (silk road) and gambling (betting sites), this makes people think of Bitcoin more of a 'outsider' type of currency used for things society frowns upon.
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September 26, 2013, 11:35:01 AM
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Gambling is ten thousand years old. Prostitution is the world's oldest profession. People have been paying for both using whatever currency existed at that time. It starts there. Later on, they buy food with shells or rocks.

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September 26, 2013, 12:12:55 PM
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Gambling is ten thousand years old. Prostitution is the world's oldest profession. People have been paying for both using whatever currency existed at that time. It starts there. Later on, they buy food with shells or rocks.


If prostitution was the world oldest profession , how did the first whore get paid if everybody else was unemployed?

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September 26, 2013, 12:21:55 PM
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Gambling is ten thousand years old. Prostitution is the world's oldest profession. People have been paying for both using whatever currency existed at that time. It starts there. Later on, they buy food with shells or rocks.


If prostitution was the world oldest profession , how did the first whore get paid if everybody else was unemployed?
With shells and stones stupid. 
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September 26, 2013, 12:41:16 PM
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Gambling is ten thousand years old. Prostitution is the world's oldest profession. People have been paying for both using whatever currency existed at that time. It starts there. Later on, they buy food with shells or rocks.


If prostitution was the world oldest profession , how did the first whore get paid if everybody else was unemployed?
With shells and stones stupid. 

So STUPID , the first profession was shells and stones gatherer , or manufacturer Smiley STUPID!

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September 26, 2013, 05:47:05 PM
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Gambling is ten thousand years old. Prostitution is the world's oldest profession. People have been paying for both using whatever currency existed at that time. It starts there. Later on, they buy food with shells or rocks.


If prostitution was the world oldest profession , how did the first whore get paid if everybody else was unemployed?
With shells and stones stupid. 

Food.

more or less retired.
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September 27, 2013, 01:18:51 AM
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Maybe the whore wasn't paid. Depends. Back then, I could probably get the service for free. The payment was you would live to see another sunrise.

Prostition is said to be the world's oldest profession. Kings and tyrants and emperors are not professions. Entrepreneurs and merchants do not practice a profession.

And thieves and bandits are strictly speaking not a "profession".

The first prostitute was probably forced into it without pay. The next one decided she would charge for it.

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mechs
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September 27, 2013, 03:01:51 AM
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Maybe the whore wasn't paid. Depends. Back then, I could probably get the service for free. The payment was you would live to see another sunrise.

Prostition is said to be the world's oldest profession. Kings and tyrants and emperors are not professions. Entrepreneurs and merchants do not practice a profession.

And thieves and bandits are strictly speaking not a "profession".

The first prostitute was probably forced into it without pay. The next one decided she would charge for it.
If prostitution is simply defined as providing sex in exchange for an item of value, how is it different from marriage and half of all other relationships out there?
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