Bitcoin Forum
December 04, 2016, 12:39:40 PM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoin critics suffer from Stockholm syndrome  (Read 2445 times)
Astrohacker
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 156



View Profile WWW
July 19, 2011, 05:07:25 PM
 #1

Bitcoin is, for some reason, highly polarizing. For every person who loves it, there is a bitcoin critic who hates it. I believe the bitcoin critics suffer from Stockholm syndrome. Stockholm syndrome is a "paradoxical psychological phenomenon wherein hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors; sometimes to the point of defending them," according to Wikipedia. Bitcoin critics have fallen in love with the bankers who pillaging them and lash out at the solution to their problem.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
nakowa
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82


View Profile
July 19, 2011, 05:16:25 PM
 #2

Fortunately, bitcoin needs only a handful supporters to run smoothly, and if some critics can draw more public attention to bitcoin, then better!
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980


View Profile
July 19, 2011, 06:06:40 PM
 #3

Stockholm syndrome is a "paradoxical psychological phenomenon wherein hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors; sometimes to the point of defending them," according to Wikipedia. Bitcoin critics have fallen in love with the bankers who pillaging them and lash out at the solution to their problem.

Meh, bitcoin critics just don't like anything new or crazy.

CurbsideProphet
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


View Profile
July 19, 2011, 06:54:23 PM
 #4

Bitcoin is, for some reason, highly polarizing. For every person who loves it, there is a bitcoin critic who hates it. I believe the bitcoin critics suffer from Stockholm syndrome. Stockholm syndrome is a "paradoxical psychological phenomenon wherein hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors; sometimes to the point of defending them," according to Wikipedia. Bitcoin critics have fallen in love with the bankers who pillaging them and lash out at the solution to their problem.

I don't think it's that black and white.  You can love an idea but still provide critique.  Critical thinking is a good thing.

At genesis, this project wasn't perfect.  Nor is it in its current state.  Critics can help to point out these flaws so they can be fixed.  I think the main differentiator is someone who provides constructive criticism vs someone who just posts to start fights. 

I would go so far as to say everyone here should be a critic.  Look at things objectively, maybe even take the devil's advocate stance from time to time.  One critic (not to be confused with troll or scammer) will do more good for the longevity of Bitcion than 10 blind followers.  IMO, of course.

1ProphetnvP8ju2SxxRvVvyzCtTXDgLPJV
Smalleyster
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70


I yam what I yam. - Popeye


View Profile WWW
July 19, 2011, 06:59:39 PM
 #5

I am finding love or hate responses. Very few of my friends are ambivialnt.

I've had to distance myself from a few of the haters becasue they are literally foaming at the mouth rabid.

It's almost as if they feel it is their duty to save the world from me and my passion for bitcoin.

Which makes me feel all that more passionate. 8^)

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
A soup to nuts newbee system for a secure, portable USB wallet (free instructions):
NoobHowTo: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27088.msg341387#msg341387
error
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574



View Profile
July 19, 2011, 10:34:41 PM
 #6

Bitcoin is, for some reason, highly polarizing. For every person who loves it, there is a bitcoin critic who hates it. I believe the bitcoin critics suffer from Stockholm syndrome. Stockholm syndrome is a "paradoxical psychological phenomenon wherein hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors; sometimes to the point of defending them," according to Wikipedia. Bitcoin critics have fallen in love with the bankers who pillaging them and lash out at the solution to their problem.

I wouldn't say that all of them do. Some are trolls and are intentionally trying to derail the project because they want to see good things fail. Others are just plain stupid. There's certainly some overlap there.

Of course, there are the occasional critics who actually manage to find flaws and discuss them intelligently. There's a larger number of people who think they've discovered a flaw and haven't.

15UFyv6kfWgq83Pp3yhXPr8rknv9m6581W
bitplane
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 321

Firstbits: 1gyzhw


View Profile WWW
July 19, 2011, 11:19:30 PM
 #7

Bitcoin is, for some reason, highly polarizing. For every person who loves it, there is a bitcoin critic who hates it. I believe the bitcoin critics suffer from Stockholm syndrome. Stockholm syndrome is a "paradoxical psychological phenomenon wherein hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors; sometimes to the point of defending them," according to Wikipedia. Bitcoin critics have fallen in love with the bankers who pillaging them and lash out at the solution to their problem.

What you just wrote reads like "everyone who disagrees with me has a mental condition"
HideousBeastManGuy
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
July 19, 2011, 11:22:04 PM
 #8

The problem is there's rampant fanboyism to the point that legit issues with bitcoin are not being addressed.

For example, you all think bitcoin is decentralized, it's not.  The last few days should be proof of that in that price slowly declined as a result of Euros not being able to deposit.

While it's not centralized, if you removed a few key pieces, the system would fail (MtGox or Dwolla for example).  And if you're at all familiar with online poker, the US government has no problem doing this.  Please don't remind me that MtGox is in Japan, PokerStars is located on the Isle of Man, and Full Tilt is in Ireland.  The US DOJ has long arms.

Secondly, everyone who participates in bitcoin are forced to be speculators.  In the traditional currency world you have many instruments for hedging.  You buy your stock in your currency, buy a futures contract for the currency you wish to sell your product in, sit back and relax, you will not gain or lose on currency price fluctuations.

Thirdly, the same corrupt systems that bitcoin is the solution to, are starting to sprout up in the exchanges.  Fucking darkpools.  They are not necessary for bitcoin.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and now we've taken a significant portion of bitcoin trading off the grid.  

Fourth, do any of you realize how much power Magic Tux has on the price of bitcoin?  I'm not suggesting anything, I'm simply stating the fact that if this *ONE PERSON* (aka NOT DECENTRALIZED) wanted to use underhanded tactics to move price, he could, and all the other exchanges would follow suit because MtGox has 90% of the volume.


Use and enjoy bitcoin, but don't be blind to it's massive problems.
error
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574



View Profile
July 19, 2011, 11:46:35 PM
 #9

The problem is there's rampant fanboyism to the point that legit issues with bitcoin are not being addressed.

For example, you all think bitcoin is decentralized, it's not.  The last few days should be proof of that in that price slowly declined as a result of Euros not being able to deposit.

While it's not centralized, if you removed a few key pieces, the system would fail (MtGox or Dwolla for example).  And if you're at all familiar with online poker, the US government has no problem doing this.  Please don't remind me that MtGox is in Japan, PokerStars is located on the Isle of Man, and Full Tilt is in Ireland.  The US DOJ has long arms.

Secondly, everyone who participates in bitcoin are forced to be speculators.  In the traditional currency world you have many instruments for hedging.  You buy your stock in your currency, buy a futures contract for the currency you wish to sell your product in, sit back and relax, you will not gain or lose on currency price fluctuations.

Thirdly, the same corrupt systems that bitcoin is the solution to, are starting to sprout up in the exchanges.  Fucking darkpools.  They are not necessary for bitcoin.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and now we've taken a significant portion of bitcoin trading off the grid. 

Fourth, do any of you realize how much power Magic Tux has on the price of bitcoin?  I'm not suggesting anything, I'm simply stating the fact that if this *ONE PERSON* (aka NOT DECENTRALIZED) wanted to use underhanded tactics to move price, he could, and all the other exchanges would follow suit because MtGox has 90% of the volume.


Use and enjoy bitcoin, but don't be blind to it's massive problems.

Be clear: None of these are problems with Bitcoin itself, but of things external to Bitcoin. Of course they need to be addressed, and clearly many people are working on these issues.

15UFyv6kfWgq83Pp3yhXPr8rknv9m6581W
HideousBeastManGuy
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
July 19, 2011, 11:51:56 PM
 #10

I would disagree with that statement.  Bitcoin is what the community has made it.  The idea of bitcoin may be impossible to fully implement as intended in the real world, and how it is perceived will be how it's defined.

But in any case, you and I both agree that the problems are worth solving, or at least for me, there's profit in solving them.
billyjoeallen
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966


Hide your women


View Profile WWW
July 20, 2011, 03:55:04 AM
 #11

I am finding love or hate responses. Very few of my friends are ambivialnt.

I've had to distance myself from a few of the haters becasue they are literally foaming at the mouth rabid.

They are LITERALLY rabid? They have actual rabies? 

I hate it when people do that shit. It literally drives me up a wall.

insert coin here:
1Ctd7Na8qE7btyueEshAJF5C7ZqFWH11Wc

Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
https://campbx.com/register.php?r=0Y7YxohTV0B
sunnankar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1030



View Profile WWW
July 20, 2011, 05:07:39 AM
 #12

Meh, bitcoin critics just don't like anything new or crazy.

No, it goes deeper than that. Imagine a world where everyone could at will summon a forcefield which made it impossible to exert violence to coerce them. Instantly all economic transactions would become voluntary. This would radically change the world from its current state where a large degree of economic transactions involve an element of coercion. Gold and silver have traditionally performed this role in society as an essential check and balance in the political machinery because of their intrinsic value and privacy.

The great Austrian school of economics economist Ludwig von Mises phrased it
Quote
It is impossible to grasp the meaning of the idea of sound money if one does not realize that it was devised as an instrument for the protection of civil liberties against despotic inroads on the part of governments. Ideologically it belongs in the same class with political constitutions and bills of rights.

Dr. Edwin Vieira, who holds four degrees from Harvard and practices law before the United States Supreme Court phrased it
Quote
Thus, the fight over gold and silver as media of exchange is about more than mere money, let alone making money. For it is a fight with only two possible outcomes: either control of their own lives by the people themselves, or control of the people and their lives by political and economic elitists.

The State is an organization of force and force is violence. BitCoin strikes directly at the heart of the State which is its ability to use violence to secure resources. Without that ability it becomes irrelevant. Thinking of the State as being irrelevant is like thinking in the 1500's that the Catholic Church would become irrelevant. But that is what BitCoin and tools like it have the potential to do and BitCoin critics rage against that idea because they hate to think that violence can no longer be employed profitably.

Serge
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050


View Profile
July 20, 2011, 05:24:43 AM
 #13

Some people can't believe that something like this can exist and actually work and not being some sort of scam and with this mentality their "captors", to whom they are used to, feel very safe and secure in comparison and very much depend on.
repentance
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 840


View Profile
July 20, 2011, 05:28:37 AM
 #14

I would disagree with that statement.  Bitcoin is what the community has made it.  The idea of bitcoin may be impossible to fully implement as intended in the real world, and how it is perceived will be how it's defined.

But in any case, you and I both agree that the problems are worth solving, or at least for me, there's profit in solving them.

I think this is often - and regrettably - overlooked.  Regardless of Satoshi's and the devs vision for Bitcoins, how it is perceived in the real world will define what function it serves and the extent to which it's adopted.  The protocol itself may be neutral but users are not and it's not going to make the transition from being a fringe commodity to a legitimate digital currency without a concerted effort to make that happen.

That said, I think it's easy to forget that from a development perspective Bitcoin is a long term project.  It's in no way critical to the core purpose of the project that people start using Bitcoin as a currency this year, next year, or five years from now - what matters is that people use it in some way between now and when the final block is mined.  

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
Smalleyster
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70


I yam what I yam. - Popeye


View Profile WWW
July 20, 2011, 05:43:29 AM
 #15

I am finding love or hate responses. Very few of my friends are ambivialnt.

I've had to distance myself from a few of the haters becasue they are literally foaming at the mouth rabid.

They are LITERALLY rabid? They have actual rabies?  

I hate it when people do that shit. It literally drives me up a wall.

rab·id/ˈrabəd/Adjective
1. Having or proceeding from a fanatical belief in something: "a rabid feminist".
2. (of an animal) Affected with rabies.

Please note I used the *first* definition.

You can come down now. 8^)

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
A soup to nuts newbee system for a secure, portable USB wallet (free instructions):
NoobHowTo: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27088.msg341387#msg341387
wumpus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 798

No Maps for These Territories


View Profile
July 20, 2011, 05:47:00 AM
 #16

I wouldn't say that all of them do. Some are trolls and are intentionally trying to derail the project because they want to see good things fail. Others are just plain stupid. There's certainly some overlap there.
There's a third reason. In the time that bitcoin was all hot and buzzy on sites like Hacker News, a lot of people were annoyed by all the buzz (I know how nerds work, I'm one too Smiley ). This made that posting a critical or even bashing article about Bitcoin was a very certain way to get attention and karma. There was even a "blog" from some marketing guy which posted nothing beyond bitcoin-bashing articles.

Then again, it's pretty pointless. The only way to derail bitcoin at this stage is to make (actually implement, test and document) an alternative that not only fixes bitcoins "flaws", but still has the same advantages such as being international and distributed. And then hope the infrastructure such as exchanges etc pick you up, as you'll face exactly the same problems bitcoin did and does.

I'm not neccesarily saying this is not possible, but it takes a lot more than some spin mills and "my first cryptology book" Smiley


Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through FileBackup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.
TeraPool
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 42


View Profile
July 20, 2011, 06:00:14 AM
 #17

Stockholm syndrome is a "paradoxical psychological phenomenon wherein hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors; sometimes to the point of defending them," according to Wikipedia. Bitcoin critics have fallen in love with the bankers who pillaging them and lash out at the solution to their problem.

Meh, bitcoin critics just don't like anything new or crazy.

Nobody likes anything new or crazy, really. We just don't think bitcoin is that crazy.

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!