Is the Merit System Generating Enough Merits?

[qwk]

Legendary members get 8% x 24k = 1920 merits which they don't need to rank up.

I don't need merits to rank up, but I do need sMerit so I can give merit to other people.
Being a "nice guy", I'm actually getting much less merit than I'm giving away.
I'll sooner or later run out, which is unfortunate, since I tend to reward people who make meaningful contributions to my threads.

[greeklogos]

I know that the purpose of this system is to create a better forum with better members but just imagine yourself a full member needing almost 2 years to get to senior. Is that fair?

Well, I am exactly in this situation. More of that I've reached Sr. Member rank by my activity in a short time after Merit system saw the light, so I count that totally unfair, cause on now with my current speed of earning merits the target seems just impossible. I think moderators should to think about those members who are on boarder between two ranks and to make the mission to them a little easier.

[onnz423]

Well, I don't really see how they can be mad, they're newcomers to the community, and newcomers always have a hard time integrating or becoming established among well known members, this is true for all industries. I do believe the initial entry barriers are slightly too high, but I've always believed that Hero and Legendary member status should only be reserved for people clearly established in the community, those that contribute greatly to the forum and offer value. It shouldn't simply be a post good quality material thing, but something like a privilege bestowed by the mods, community votes or admins. Or perhaps it should be something like, the top 10% of merit earners per rank are eligible to rank up immediately after reaching the activity requirement.

[TheBeardedBaby]

I know that the purpose of this system is to create a better forum with better members but just imagine yourself a full member needing almost 2 years to get to senior. Is that fair?

Well, I am exactly in this situation. More of that I've reached Sr. Member rank by my activity in a short time after Merit system saw the light, so I count that totally unfair, cause on now with my current speed of earning merits the target seems just impossible. I think moderators should to think about those members who are on boarder between two ranks and to make the mission to them a little easier.

I thought that in the beginning, I was just a fresh Member when the Merit was introduced. I had some old good posts and started getting merit just keeping those up to date.

 I'm still a member but tomorrow evening I'll reach the needed activity points for Full Member, got enough merit til now to prove that the system is really working if you are helping the community in some way and stay away from shitposting. I guess these 30 points I'm missing will not be
a problem , but I'm not In hurry. I'll be happy to wear avatar some day.

As I like to say, "don't blame the system, blame yourself" is applicable here too

[Oulay]

Good analysis. I believe the merit system is still too young and it will be needed some time to all users to get used to it. Now, everyday I read publications abput how to get merit (mostly made by newbies), but I understand even in the higher ranks now it is really difficult to rank out, for example from hero to legendary.

It's for sure still too young and I think most users are having a hard time ranking up no matter what rank are they currently in.

It is time to create a kind of Merit-contest?? We can pick a topic and let the people talk about it, and see what happens...

Those kinds of contests are already taking place.. Like here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2957836.0
There are also people giving away merits to other members who refer them to an under-merited post of theirs.
As long as you have the sMerits to give away you can create one yourself!

The admins are letting people create merit contests/giveaways but first you'd need the merits to do so, leading us to the heart of the problem which is: There isn't enough merits!

Since new participants cannot able to analyze the quality post. High rank members have the knowledge to understand which one is quality post. If meriting option goes to less rank members it will become another spam here.

I never said that I wanted new members to be in charge of giving away merits..

Now Hilariousandco starting washing out the merit sellers and exchangers. You may find many people have bee tagged in this, Hope he will take this as a huge list.

Banning merit Sellers and exchangers would be of great help to us! As more merits will be available to legitimate users.

[Oulay]

I know that the purpose of this system is to create a better forum with better members but just imagine yourself a full member needing almost 2 years to get to senior. Is that fair?

Well, I am exactly in this situation. More of that I've reached Sr. Member rank by my activity in a short time after Merit system saw the light, so I count that totally unfair, cause on now with my current speed of earning merits the target seems just impossible. I think moderators should to think about those members who are on boarder between two ranks and to make the mission to them a little easier.

Theymos could've solved this problem the time he created the merit system.. He could've easily given every member merits based on activity and not ranks, for example: A full member like you who has 250 activity should have been given around 200 merits to start with not only 100 (the amount needed for member rank).
But he must have his reasons not to do so...

Well, I don't really see how they can be mad, they're newcomers to the community, and newcomers always have a hard time integrating or becoming established among well known members, this is true for all industries.

A hard time is something and 1, 2 or even more than 3 years for every rank upgrade is a totally different thing!

I thought that in the beginning, I was just a fresh Member when the Merit was introduced. I had some old good posts and started getting merit just keeping those up to date.

 I'm still a member but tomorrow evening I'll reach the needed activity points for Full Member, got enough merit til now to prove that the system is really working if you are helping the community in some way and stay away from shitposting. I guess these 30 points I'm missing will not be
a problem , but I'm not In hurry. I'll be happy to wear avatar some day.

As I like to say, "don't blame the system, blame yourself" is applicable here too

Well, good for you being one of the high quality posters!
But let me remind you that you needed to post 3 times as much as your activity to get those merits.. Almost every member with merits enough to rank up soon after they got enough activity have posted 3 to 5 times their activity, which is 3 to 5 posts a day! Not all members can dedicate that much time for the forums...
On the other hand it makes activity totally useless if someone needed much more than the number of posts needed for maximum activity in order to get enough merits..

As I like to say, "don't blame the system, blame yourself" is applicable here too

I guess it's partially applicable but I'm not blaming anyone.. I'm merely hoping for an improvement in the system.
Cuz u know if only the best posters get those merits and above average posters don't get them despite trying too hard to improve their posting quality will lead them to leave the forums in the end and we don't want that do we?
I believe the forums is not only for the very best members, but rather that it's for everyone who is willing to contribute!

[Welsh]

I don't need merits to rank up, but I do need sMerit so I can give merit to other people.
Being a "nice guy", I'm actually getting much less merit than I'm giving away.
I'll sooner or later run out, which is unfortunate, since I tend to reward people who make meaningful contributions to my threads.

This is the reason why Hero members and legendary members need to receive merit so they can distribute it all the same as other members. I imagine in a few months time or a year from now when we have an adequate number of merit sources receiving merit and redistributing it won't be a problem. 

[seven2smoke1]

I don't need merits to rank up, but I do need sMerit so I can give merit to other people.
Being a "nice guy", I'm actually getting much less merit than I'm giving away.
I'll sooner or later run out, which is unfortunate, since I tend to reward people who make meaningful contributions to my threads.

This is the reason why Hero members and legendary members need to receive merit so they can distribute it all the same as other members. I imagine in a few months time or a year from now when we have an adequate number of merit sources receiving merit and redistributing it won't be a problem. 

Maybe theymos will take a look about this idea, and increase the sMerit points for Hero members and legendary members (Which they are active and reputable), Or to increase the number of merit sources, which will be enough merit for each one to receive. Honestly, I didn't know how theymos choose the 57 merit sources, It's random or what? , I think there is some criteria if this is not RANDOM.

[Oulay]

Maybe theymos will take a look about this idea, and increase the sMerit points for Hero members and legendary members (Which they are active and reputable), Or to increase the number of merit sources, which will be enough merit for each one to receive. Honestly, I didn't know how theymos choose the 57 merit sources, It's random or what? , I think there is some criteria if this is not RANDOM.

This is a great idea actually! if Legendary/Hero members would get 1 sMerit for every merit they receive instead of 0.5 it would distribute the responsibility of spending those merits instead of it being mostly put on sources.

I guess the merit sources where hand picked, knowing they're only 57 of them it won't be so hard to do.
Either way, "established members" can apply for being a merit source:

If you want to be a merit source:

 1. Be a somewhat established member.
 2. Collect TEN posts written in the last couple of months by other people that have not received nearly enough merit for how good they are, and post quotes for them all in a new Meta thread. The point of this is to demonstrate your ability to give out merit usefully.
 3. We will take a look at your history and maybe make you a source.

I am especially eager to have merit sources in sub-communities such as the local sections.

[Sexie]

If two years is what it takes someone to receive 125 merits, then yes, that's fair for that particular person. Particularly since merit and rank do not affect users' ability to participate on the forum. Ranking up is basically eye candy.

Why are so many users complaining like it would be some kind of basic human right to become legendary by posting stuff that no one but their own mother considers useful?

It's not "that particular person" it's the average member which means more than half the members of this forum have this problem and even if you are a better poster how much above average you think you'd be? will you get double the amount an average user gets? triple? it would still take you much more than it did in the old system.

I'm not complaining about the merit system I'm complaining about the very low amount of merits it produces..

 
Anyway, dont be too Focus about merits  and  rankings. Be thankful if anybody Will give merits to your post. If no one did it, Its okay, make  a better post next time. IM not good in English as what they always say that you must be perfect in English to get some merits. But most of those have merited are using Links for average people like me to understand of what they are saying in their  quotes  for  no more further details.

[TheQuin]

Theymos could've solved this problem the time he created the merit system.. He could've easily given every member merits based on activity and not ranks, for example: A full member like you who has 250 activity should have been given around 200 merits to start with not only 100 (the amount needed for member rank).
But he must have his reasons not to do so...

He answered this in another thread.

.....I considered giving merit proportional to activity, but I decided not to because doing so would probably give far more undeserved merit than deserved merit in total. But undoubtedly some people got screwed by this.....

I wouldn't agree with this reasoning but there it is.

[TheUltraElite]

Anyway, dont be too Focus about merits  and  rankings. Be thankful if anybody Will give merits to your post.

Means every two minutes of your online time you are going to visit your profile page on bitcointalk to check how many new merit points you have got?

If no one did it, Its okay, make  a better post next time.

And if you dont get merited on the second post?

IM not good in English as what they always say that you must be perfect in English to get some merits. But most of those have merited are using Links for average people like me to understand of what they are saying in their  quotes  for  no more further details.

Let me be clear here because I dont want to sound like a troll.

I can understand the situation the newbies and junior members are into because of the merit system. But that does not mean you will stop contributing to the forum.

The forum is for people to ask questions and learn about the crypto world. It is not supposed to be a rank-up warzone to get into high paying signature campaigns. So keep it to that.

If you have something to contribute then do so. Otherwise dont come to this forum.

[milugau]

I think you should not answer such a non-sense question. The more rare merit system is, the more meritorious high-quality posts are. 

[guschin]

I think we need to give some time to Merit system, only one month passed. If theymos will see that there aren't enough sMerits generated, he just will add more Merit sources.
I think there is another issue that we have. Just visit Bitcoin Discussion, Altcoin Discussion, Bounties, Politics & Society or another spammy board, open several profiles of Full Members and above and you will find that mostly of them haven't sent any of their sMerit so far. It means that there are still so many users who still aren't aware about Merit system and just holding their sMerit without knowing about it.

He had already been adding new merit sources since this new system was launched. I am sure that he must be keeping a watch on these threads especially with some solid evidence and stats regarding members ranking up after the merit system. As per my personally experience, I am satisfied with the merits I have got. I am not much active here as I am very much busy with my work. However, I really feel that this forum has really started getting detailed posts especially in meta section after the new merit system .

[Argie021213]

Based on the new merit system it is pretty obvious that ranking up is now very hard to reach and possibly the system wants to prohibit users to rank up just by completing the required post count. With this chances are majority in this forum are junior and members since reaching full member is quite difficult to achieve.

[LTU_btc]

I think we need to give some time to Merit system, only one month passed. If theymos will see that there aren't enough sMerits generated, he just will add more Merit sources.
I think there is another issue that we have. Just visit Bitcoin Discussion, Altcoin Discussion, Bounties, Politics & Society or another spammy board, open several profiles of Full Members and above and you will find that mostly of them haven't sent any of their sMerit so far. It means that there are still so many users who still aren't aware about Merit system and just holding their sMerit without knowing about it.

He had already been adding new merit sources since this new system was launched. I am sure that he must be keeping a watch on these threads especially with some solid evidence and stats regarding members ranking up after the merit system. As per my personally experience, I am satisfied with the merits I have got. I am not much active here as I am very much busy with my work. However, I really feel that this forum has really started getting detailed posts especially in meta section after the new merit system .

Yeah, but before doing changes in Merit system, we should wait at least few months to get more clear view and to be sure that changes are necessary.
Maybe you are right that now we can find more detailed posts in Meta and some other boards, users started to put more effort into to make posts. But now we just have too many topics about Merit here. Many users are just desperately posting nonsense just to get Merit. And instead of 20 words, they are using 100, no matter of content. And they are sure it is enough to earn Merit.

[ACVinegar]

Legendary members get 8% x 24k = 1920 merits which they don't need to rank up.

I don't need merits to rank up, but I do need sMerit so I can give merit to other people.
Being a "nice guy", I'm actually getting much less merit than I'm giving away.
I'll sooner or later run out, which is unfortunate, since I tend to reward people who make meaningful contributions to my threads.

You are really nice guy because you always think other people, even you can't get any benefits from your gaining smerit you always think to help the other users to grow up. As of today I can't experience to shares smerit due to I was newly and I have no smerit in my account, however if I got some smerit I will share it too, to others but they need to make a some helpful and constructive posts. In addition, my answer to the question "is the merit system generating enough merits?" for now I can't judge this merit system since I can't gain some of this, but if in case I try it then I give my full opinion regarding on that merit system.

[TheQuin]

There are currently - at the time of this post - 57 merit sources with a total merit generation of up to 11975 sMerit per 30 days. Those are the merits generated by sources only, and given that a member can send half the merits he receives and imagining the best case scenario where every member sends all the merits he receives, the total amount of merits generated by the system would double to 23950 sMerit per 30 days. So, roughly 24k sMerit per month.

I don't know if it is as a result of this thread or not but it looks like theymos agreed that there wasn't enough Merit. There has been an update to the Merit Sources.

Merit sources
There are 57 merit sources with a total merit generation of up to 14750 sMerit per 30 days

The same number of sources but more sMerit.

[TheUltraElite]

Based on the new merit system it is pretty obvious that ranking up is now very hard to reach and possibly the system wants to prohibit users to rank up just by completing the required post count. With this chances are majority in this forum are junior and members since reaching full member is quite difficult to achieve.

The system never wanted to prohibit people from ranking up. It wants people who contribute more to the forum and post quality content to be recognized differently from the shitposting noobs who come here to increase post counts and and get signature campaign payments. The latter are the low-level bottomfeeders who need to get a job and not spam this forums boards with nonsense idiotic vomitposts with infectious fluids in the Bitcoin Discussion and the Altcoin Discussion boards.

Let the junior members be as they are. If you are really willing to contribute to the forum discussions then your rank should not be a matter of debate. Your contribution on the other hand, does. Thats what a forum is for, not for signature campaigns and bounties.

[solovev]

Based on the new merit system it is pretty obvious that ranking up is now very hard to reach and possibly the system wants to prohibit users to rank up just by completing the required post count. With this chances are majority in this forum are junior and members since reaching full member is quite difficult to achieve.

It is difficult o rank up in comparison to past for sure. But this is for all ranks not only the lower ranks as you mentioned. The merit requirements are higher for those upper ranks and they are more difficult to achieve in my opinion. For instance, the member rank requires only 10 merit points which appears to be the easiest in my opinion. Once you have become a member and have enrolled in a campaign, you will already start getting paid for your posts. Thus, the forum still encourages you to rank up.