Your all-new, full custom Bitcoin casino is here ;)

[ssaCEO]

5. Thanks, now the only thing missing is players.

Lol. We're actually pretty happy with the start so far. Give it a couple weeks... there are a lot of regular players who still just need to get some Bitcoins. But we are trying to start building a poker game around Sunday evenings, so stop by...we'll have a few things going on.

About the question of private proxies, all we can do is assess the overall risk. You're a bitcoiner, which means you're probably in the 99.9th percentile of risk for actually having a private proxy out of the worldwide population, but we deal with it on a case-by-case basis (everyone in our system has a risk score based on factors you'd probably find surprising, separate from IP address). We reserve the right to request further ID verification at any time. In your case, the risk showed up as low, and I'm pretty sure our system was right. But if we messed up you can show us your American passport and we'll refund your original deposit... As it is, all players will have to show ID to use any payment method other than Bitcoin, and we've already been forced to tighten our checks on Canada to prevent cross-border traffic; all Canadians must now show ID, even if they score high against our system.

We're probably the only online casino in the world that performs verification checks against players prior to their first deposit, as opposed to their first withdrawal. We do it to speed up the withdrawal process and take care of good players faster. I personally find it repugnant for a casino to sit on your money right when you want to withdraw.

Yet it's funny that so many Americans find the time to try and trick a new gaming site into thinking they're from another country, trying to get us into trouble (we've caught about 20 cases in two days and counting), but they can't get their shit together to make their own supposedly democratic government legalize online poker. Maybe they're all feds. Some guy with a sense of humor just signed up with the username "NotAnFBIAgent" which is pretty funny if you think about it; I think technically we could take his bets based on such a sworn statement (hah), but the lawyers would likely disagree with me there. But what can you do, people want to play and live in a free country and be left alone...I get it. Not to sound callous but it turns out that they don't live in a free country, and I'm not sure why we should bear the responsibility for the US not being able to control its own citizens when we're trying everything we can to not break their laws. But enough of that. You were cleared, you're sitting on a normal DSL line in Sweden if I'm not mistaken? You would have been disconnected a lot more often...the games would have been unplayable if you were bouncing through that connection from the US.

The password thing is in the works and hopefully you got our email about the disconnect...if not, let me know. Thanks again, this is really the kind of serious, constructive feedback that will help us make the site work better.

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[giantdragon]

Why do you prevent players with U.S. IPs? It looks really stupid...

If FBI want to take legal action against your casino, they can register from non-US private proxy (which is NOT in your blacklist), then claim you illegally accept payments from USA players.

[alkhdaniel]

5. Thanks, now the only thing missing is players.

Lol. We're actually pretty happy with the start so far. Give it a couple weeks... there are a lot of regular players who still just need to get some Bitcoins. But we are trying to start building a poker game around Sunday evenings, so stop by...we'll have a few things going on.

About the question of private proxies, all we can do is assess the overall risk. You're a bitcoiner, which means you're probably in the 99.9th percentile of risk for actually having a private proxy out of the worldwide population, but we deal with it on a case-by-case basis (everyone in our system has a risk score based on factors you'd probably find surprising, separate from IP address). We reserve the right to request further ID verification at any time. In your case, the risk showed up as low, and I'm pretty sure our system was right. But if we messed up you can show us your American passport and we'll refund your original deposit... As it is, all players will have to show ID to use any payment method other than Bitcoin, and we've already been forced to tighten our checks on Canada to prevent cross-border traffic; all Canadians must now show ID, even if they score high against our system.

We're probably the only online casino in the world that performs verification checks against players prior to their first deposit, as opposed to their first withdrawal. We do it to speed up the withdrawal process and take care of good players faster. I personally find it repugnant for a casino to sit on your money right when you want to withdraw.

Yet it's funny that so many Americans find the time to try and trick a new gaming site into thinking they're from another country, trying to get us into trouble (we've caught about 20 cases in two days and counting), but they can't get their shit together to make their own supposedly democratic government legalize online poker. Maybe they're all feds. Some guy with a sense of humor just signed up with the username "NotAnFBIAgent" which is pretty funny if you think about it; I think technically we could take his bets based on such a sworn statement (hah), but the lawyers would likely disagree with me there. But what can you do, people want to play and live in a free country and be left alone...I get it. Not to sound callous but it turns out that they don't live in a free country, and I'm not sure why we should bear the responsibility for the US not being able to control its own citizens when we're trying everything we can to not break their laws. But enough of that. You were cleared, you're sitting on a normal DSL line in Sweden if I'm not mistaken? You would have been disconnected a lot more often...the games would have been unplayable if you were bouncing through that connection from the US.

The password thing is in the works and hopefully you got our email about the disconnect...if not, let me know. Thanks again, this is really the kind of serious, constructive feedback that will help us make the site work better.

Actually got a private proxy (proxy located in the US though )
DSL(vDSL) from Sweden is correct.

I believe the hand i got when coming back from the disconnect was a 10 & queen of heart, The thing that makes me think it wasn't really an disconnect is because i typed something in the chat ~1s before i got disconnected (pretty sure it went through), and didn't have any problem connecting to the site after the disconnect either. It might have been something with the browser though, using Chrome/Win7 but you probably already know that

What timezone to refer to when checking in on Sunday evening to play? Also what timezone is all times @ the site specified in? Does it check client local server time or does it go by server time?

The interesting part is that i couldn't login after i was disconnected though, it didn't tell me that i inserted the wrong password, it just didn't tell me anything. However when i refreshed the page i was thrown right back into the game (with a new hand, 10 & queen of heart). Will try to get some more information if it happens again, didn't really think about it when it happened.

Why do you prevent players with U.S. IPs? It looks really stupid...

If FBI want to take legal action against your casino, they can register from non-US private proxy (which is NOT in your blacklist), then claim you illegally accept payments from USA players.

They could also most likely issue fake ID's etc. If you are in US and really want to play, you will most likely find a way, however it's probably easier to just play on the sites you are allowed to i think? Then there's also the whole question about bitcoins not being a real currency, but i don't think strikesapphire wants to put themselves in a gray zone and destroy the possibility of getting licensed in the US.

[Vod]

If FBI want to take legal action against your casino, they can register from non-US private proxy (which is NOT in your blacklist), then claim you illegally accept payments from USA players.

He should be able to protect himself from that in his TOS.

The FBI can't break the law and then expect to make their own charges stick.  As long as the owner does due diligence to obey the law he should be safe. 

[ssaCEO]

Thank you, Jafm.

If a player signs up, lies about his/her country and fakes an IP address, they're violating our TOS and committing fraud against the us (and likely the ISP or hosting company where their proxy is). We block VPNs, known proxies, tor, hosting center netblocks, cloud service providers, and other known threat points with several layers of filtering at the DNS level, at the server level, at the software level, and manually if necessary.

Other casinos have an easier time, because their payment providers do the heavy lifting to prevent US transactions (which, btw, is actually what the law is about: Payment transactions for gaming involving US financial instruments, not the gaming itself). With BTC, while it's arguable that our site never touches the US banking system, we think it's best for the currency and for the long-term survival of our site to do everything in our power to respect the spirit of US law, rather than trying to argue our way around it.

RE: Daniel ...that's rather weird, but let me know if anything crops up again. Also, password max length has been upped to 32 characters!

[evoorhees]

Little confused... as an American, am I able to play purely for BTC if all deposits and withdrawals are in BTC? I'd rather not "cash out" in silly green toilet paper anyway.

Sucks that being an American is a liability. Land of the free my ass.

[Bitcoin Swami]

Yes I was also hoping to play as an American.  Not sure why even the green toilet paper has to come into play. .

Anyways the first real casino to deal purely in bitcoins and allow american players will be rewarded handsomely. 

[alkhdaniel]

Any word on timezone? Would like to know exactly when "9PM" is, is the timezone adjusted after the user or does it simply use server time?
Also thanks for the max pass change.

@evoorhees
"If a player signs up, lies about his/her country and fakes an IP address, they're violating our TOS and committing fraud against the us" -ssaCEO
Due to the anonymous nature of bitcoins it would be possible though, but if you respect the company/don't want to possibly hurt them you shouldn't try to.

[foggyb]

Any word on timezone? Would like to know exactly when "9PM" is, is the timezone adjusted after the user or does it simply use server time?
Also thanks for the max pass change.

Yes, we need a server time displayed prominently on the site.

[ssaCEO]

Server time! Sorry, I missed this.  
The servers are adjusted to GMT, the logs are in GMT, but the times displayed in the lobbies are always in your local timezone (whatever your computer's clock is set to). So whatever time a tournament says it is, it's at that time locally for you.

@evoorhees and @mayabong... even though you're only depo'ing and withdrawing in BTC, we just don't want to take the risk of having US players. It could still be said that, if BTC is money (and we can't have it both ways...clearly it's money) then we're still using wires in the US to send it back and forth. I totally agree that the first casino to do it will make a fortune, but they'd also be inviting the hammer; the most likely candidates are the other CR-based casinos that are not run by American expatriates

edit to that: And it won't happen for a bit because everybody's on the mattresses right now since the FT/Stars shutdowns.

[foggyb]

Thanks.

I invite anyone who is signing up for the site to click my referral link.

[xyu]

Your request was blocked by BlockScript based on the policies of the strikesapphire.com website.

BlockScript is security software which protects websites and empowers webmasters to stop unwanted traffic. BlockScript detects and blocks requests from all types of proxy servers and anonymity networks (such as web-based proxies, open proxies, Tor, VPN servers, etc.), hosting networks, undesirable robots and spiders, and even entire countries. For more information, see: www.blockscript.com

That's all I get from this web site, and I'm not using proxies, tor or vpn. Do you block entire ISP subnets?

[Djao]

xyu, that's to stop you from gambling in casinos when you really should start round 5! 

on topic: referral programm works great too, already have 2 referrals who deposited a certain amount of BTC and the system paid me my share, really nice.

[evoorhees]

In America, I can spend $100 on paint and sniff it until I die of toxic overdose, but I am prevented by law from spending $10 on a game of poker.

[ssaCEO]

That's all I get from this web site, and I'm not using proxies, tor or vpn. Do you block entire ISP subnets?

We shouldn't be blocking normal home or business subscribers, although there are some subnets flagged occasionally for bot infestation. Or you may be sharing your IP with a tor exit node. We do also block satellite ISPs, however if that's the case we'll whitelist your range and just ask for ID if you want to deposit. Paranoid as we are, we're trying hard to make this as easy as possible for legal players...but do have a fair number of false-positives.

If you can send us your IP address at help(at)strikesapphire.com, or PM me here, I'll check into why our system's blocking you.

[lemonginger]

Other casinos have an easier time, because their payment providers do the heavy lifting to prevent US transactions (which, btw, is actually what the law is about: Payment transactions for gaming involving US financial instruments, not the gaming itself). With BTC, while it's arguable that our site never touches the US banking system, we think it's best for the currency and for the long-term survival of our site to do everything in our power to respect the spirit of US law, rather than trying to argue our way around it.

You mean their payment processors do the heavy lifting to allow workarounds for US players to /be able/ to get money onto their site

As a US-based player I am of course biased (though the swipe at people that can figure out proxy servers but can't figure out how to lobby their government was a bit of a low swipe. Many US players have been involved in lobbying and other efforts), but I am eagerly looking forward to the growth of more casinos that are either actively using bitcoin that don't care about US gambling laws (like bodog, etc) or ones that are ready to argue that since bitcoin avoids the US banking system that UIGEA doesn't come into play.

BUT I certainly respect your stance, given that you personally and other partners are the ones shouldering legal liability and definitely applaud the stance of going through verification before taking someone's money, rather than before giving it back -- thanks for your transparency and honesty in this thread.

Sportsbooks have always been the primary target of the DOJ, so it is interesting to me that both of the major bitcoin sportsbooks have no problems taking US money. One that just ignores the regulations, the other is making the argument that it doesn't violate US laws because bitcoin is an internet currency.

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

VERY IMPORTANT: We can't accept players in the United States, France or Italy. I wish we could, but we're a responsible club and bound by law. We verify all members' nation of residence prior to their first deposit, and we are limiting signups to 50 new depositors per month.
...
We're a software company incorporated in Costa Rica.

If you're in Costa Rica, why do you care about US, France and Italy laws? Do these governments have agreements with the Costa Rica one to hunt you down or something?


And another thing, I accessed your site and it sad my IP was blocked. You are blocking tor exit nodes. Please, read about Tor to understand what it is and why some might abuse through it. And don't do IP bans, this is just dumb, you can easily block an IP shared by lots of people.

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

We block VPNs, known proxies, tor, hosting center netblocks, cloud service providers, and other known threat points with several layers of filtering at the DNS level, at the server level, at the software level, and manually if necessary.

Oh, I see now, you do this willingly.

Well, it's your choice anyways. I imagine the next competitor that shows up with less dumb rules will have advantages over you.

[BTCSports]

Sportsbooks have always been the primary target of the DOJ, so it is interesting to me that both of the major bitcoin sportsbooks have no problems taking US money. One that just ignores the regulations, the other is making the argument that it doesn't violate US laws because bitcoin is an internet currency.

Our argument is actually that Bitcoin is neither money nor a currency.  I haven't got much feedback on our Bitcoins = Zynga Poker Chip argument but if anyone would like to read our position you can find it at http://btcsportsbetting.com/is-it-legal.

ssaCEO have you considered that allowing people to bet with Bitcoins may not be illegal under US law as it could be argued that Bitcoins are play money?  Converting them to USD when they are sent to you might invalidate that argument (which is why we don't do that) but I would be interested to know how your company is interpreting the law to disallow US players.

[lemonginger]

If you're in Costa Rica, why do you care about US, France and Italy laws? Do these governments have agreements with the Costa Rica one to hunt you down or something?

Because maybe they want to step foot in those countries again? Because maybe they want to pursue licensing games to US based corps (as mentioned). Because maybe they want to build a company and go public someday? Because maybe they don't want to take the legal risks associated with UIGEA as the US govt is showing an inordinate amount of interest in cracking down on online gaming at the moment?

Not saying I agree with the reasoning, but until you are the one taking the legal risks, try not to be so flippant about the risks others may choose to take/not take.