A case AGAINST merging Namecoin and Bitcoin mining [Converted to SUPPORT!]

[casascius]

Okay so then that would imply that both the bitcoin and namecoin clients would have to updated the code to submit the proof of work to both block chains or no?

The bitcoin client doesn't have to be changed because the modified blocks are still valid and consistent with the Bitcoin protocol.  They just contain one extra number that the Bitcoin client already allows and will ignore.

[1715583916]

1715583916

[JoelKatz]

Okay so then that would imply that both the bitcoin and namecoin clients would have to updated the code to submit the proof of work to both block chains or no?

Bitcoin clients would not need to update unless they wanted to participate in pooled mining and they were issuing work units. Every namecoin client would need to update.

So then what will likely happen when this does take place is that since the namecoin difficulty is like 1/17th of that of the bitcoin network the difficulty will likely catch up to the bitcoin network and likely come to parity at some point in the near future.

Certainly the difficulty for namecoin would shoot up.

And lastly if someone creates a proof of work that satisfies both bitcoin and namecoin at that moment they get 50 BTC and 50 NMC?

Yes, assuming they correctly assemble the proof of work into both a bitcoin block and a namecoin block and both blocks wind up 'winning' in their respective hash chains.

[dacoinminster]

Merged mining works like this, you have two totally separate block chains, they are not related in any way nor does either contain any data from the other. When you mine you generate hashes that may be the solution to the current block, this is very very improbable per hash, its like a lottery where everyone generates tickets until someone finds the winning one. Normally you make tickets and check them against the Bitcoin block chain to see if they are the solution. With merged mining you create a ticket and check it against both the Bitcoin block chain and the Namecoin block chain, Bitcoin and Namecoin know nothing about each other, they are two totally different lotteries with different winning numbers, you just sent a copy of your ticket to both. Since you are sending the same ticket to two lotteries you increase your chances of winning one or the other. No Bitcoin data goes into Namecoin no Namecoin data into Bitcoin they remain totally separate, you simply run both the Namecoin and Bitcoin clients on the same machine and submit hashes to both networks, if your hash is the solution to the Namecoin block you get Namecoins if you hash is the solution to the Bitcoin block you get Bitcoins, its exactly like if you where mining on just one network, except you submit the same work twice.


Not quite tl;dr but i think its gets the point across. 

Thankyou ttk2 for this. I've been reading lots of text about this concept, and wasn't quite getting some bits of it. Now it makes more sense.

Why don't you have a donation address in your signature?

[ttk2]

Merged mining works like this, you have two totally separate block chains, they are not related in any way nor does either contain any data from the other. When you mine you generate hashes that may be the solution to the current block, this is very very improbable per hash, its like a lottery where everyone generates tickets until someone finds the winning one. Normally you make tickets and check them against the Bitcoin block chain to see if they are the solution. With merged mining you create a ticket and check it against both the Bitcoin block chain and the Namecoin block chain, Bitcoin and Namecoin know nothing about each other, they are two totally different lotteries with different winning numbers, you just sent a copy of your ticket to both. Since you are sending the same ticket to two lotteries you increase your chances of winning one or the other. No Bitcoin data goes into Namecoin no Namecoin data into Bitcoin they remain totally separate, you simply run both the Namecoin and Bitcoin clients on the same machine and submit hashes to both networks, if your hash is the solution to the Namecoin block you get Namecoins if you hash is the solution to the Bitcoin block you get Bitcoins, its exactly like if you where mining on just one network, except you submit the same work twice.


Not quite tl;dr but i think its gets the point across. 

Thankyou ttk2 for this. I've been reading lots of text about this concept, and wasn't quite getting some bits of it. Now it makes more sense.

Why don't you have a donation address in your signature?

Didn't think anyone would care to donate.

12YXLzbi4hfLaUxyPswRbKW92C6h5KsVnX


Thanks! I am glad i could help.

[dacoinminster]

Didn't think anyone would care to donate.

12YXLzbi4hfLaUxyPswRbKW92C6h5KsVnX

Thanks! I am glad i could help.

Tiny tip sent your way. I like to spread itty bitty tips around when I find something helpful or cool.

[kano]

Merged mining works like this, you have two totally separate block chains, they are not related in any way nor does either contain any data from the other. When you mine you generate hashes that may be the solution to the current block, this is very very improbable per hash, its like a lottery where everyone generates tickets until someone finds the winning one. Normally you make tickets and check them against the Bitcoin block chain to see if they are the solution. With merged mining you create a ticket and check it against both the Bitcoin block chain and the Namecoin block chain, Bitcoin and Namecoin know nothing about each other, they are two totally different lotteries with different winning numbers, you just sent a copy of your ticket to both. Since you are sending the same ticket to two lotteries you increase your chances of winning one or the other. No Bitcoin data goes into Namecoin no Namecoin data into Bitcoin they remain totally separate, you simply run both the Namecoin and Bitcoin clients on the same machine and submit hashes to both networks, if your hash is the solution to the Namecoin block you get Namecoins if you hash is the solution to the Bitcoin block you get Bitcoins, its exactly like if you where mining on just one network, except you submit the same work twice.


Not quite tl;dr but i think its gets the point across.  

Thankyou ttk2 for this. I've been reading lots of text about this concept, and wasn't quite getting some bits of it. Now it makes more sense.

Why don't you have a donation address in your signature?

Didn't think anyone would care to donate.

12YXLzbi4hfLaUxyPswRbKW92C6h5KsVnX


Thanks! I am glad i could help.

Could you please correct this (on the web site also)

It is false (see highlighted sections that are wrong)

Namecoin data (unrelated to bitcoin) is added to the bitcoin block chain, thus making the bitcoin block chain unnecessarily larger.

Though, for those who do want to do this - look at it this way
Namecoin blocks are almost free.
The cost is those extra bytes added to the bitcoin block chain (i.e. disk space for everyone in bitcoin)
If you mine exclusively namecoin you are paying with your hashes and electricity (as well as the namecoin block chain disk space)
If you mine merged you are only paying with your namecoin and bitcoin block chain disk space.
What value does that put on a namecoin coin?

[JoelKatz]

Namecoin data (unrelated to bitcoin) is added to the bitcoin block chain, thus making the bitcoin block chain unnecessarily larger.

Technically true. I agree that those things are literally incorrect, and when you're trying to make an argument on a contentious issue, it's good to be precisely correct. Merged mining does add some bytes to the bitcoin block chain. However, lots of other things add many more bytes to the bitcoin block chain and are of much less value.

In fact, if I were designing a Bitcoin replacement/update, one of my solutions to the reducing mining payout over time would be transaction fees for securing things in the block chain -- with an efficient "secure these hashes" transaction and a per-hash transaction fee. (This transaction would have no outputs and clients would know that they have no need to store it as a transaction. Block chain pruning could discard it entirely.)

In any event, if the transaction fees don't accurately reflect the costs associated with committing bitcoin transactions to the block chain, they should be raised. Unfortunately, there's a somewhat fundamental tragedy of the commons here. One person gets the transaction fee just for including the transaction in a block, but then everyone must store that transaction forever. This is a design flaw in the Bitcoin protocol that will likely get resolved in the future.