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Author Topic: Bitcoin is not politically-neutral.  (Read 4434 times)
Anonymous
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July 20, 2011, 12:55:04 AM
 #41

Strength and Might is usually correct when its not limited to the elite few. That's another premise of mine.

What is protection? Who is entitled to protection? How do they get it?
Protection is what defends a persons claim to something. One is entitled to protection by having the correct amount of value to espouse it whether it be through your inherent value as a human being or direct payment.
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MountainMan
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July 20, 2011, 12:55:30 AM
 #42

People are stupid. History proves it. People do stupid, incredibly self-detructive things over and over and over again. You can't expect any individual to be rational over any given period of time, because we're not wired for rational. We're wired for emotional, psychological, intuitive, and inspired thinking. No matter how perfect your system is in theory, in practice it will fail because humans are fallible.

Anarcho-Capitalism is dependent on individuals behaving rationally.
Anonymous
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July 20, 2011, 12:55:54 AM
 #43

Protection in a collective form by the weak exists. It's called government.

Please change your writing style, it is a horrendous mix of pseudointellectual and trying too hard.
Anonymous
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July 20, 2011, 12:57:02 AM
 #44

Protection in a collective form by the weak exists. It's called government.

Please change your writing style, it is a horrendous mix of pseudointellectual and trying too hard.
No, it's not. For instance, the supreme court has ruled that an individual citizen is not entitled to protection. The protection is only according to the whims of the few that have a hold over the system and it's not the people.
Anonymous
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July 20, 2011, 12:58:03 AM
 #45

People are stupid. History proves it. People do stupid, incredibly self-detructive things over and over and over again. You can't expect any individual to be rational over any given period of time, because we're not wired for rational.
Then it's over. We can't expect anything greater of our rulers then. Let's throw in the towel. Humanity is doomed.
Anonymous
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July 20, 2011, 01:00:43 AM
 #46

Also, irrational people voting for a ruler? That's hopeless. Let's just hire a benevolent dictator! He'll know what's best!
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July 20, 2011, 01:01:41 AM
 #47

There is no such thing as a apathetic tool unless it is used inanely with a handicapped view of reality.

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July 20, 2011, 01:12:13 AM
 #48

Bitcoin is a tool. It is politically-neutral since it is incapable of holding political views. People on the other hand are not politically-neutral.

It is a tool and tools are designed with a purpose. Tools with a specific purpose will serve these purposes along with their shared sentiments. The purpose is obviously freedom.

If a tool were truly neutral, it would be incapable of anything. To say a screw-driver is neutral is to say it's not for screwing screws when obviously that's its intended purpose.

There is no such thing as a apathetic tool unless it is used inanely with a handicapped view of reality.

I'm a big fan of both bitcoin and PM's, but...

...in practice I suspect that bitcoin and PM's would/will be an even more effective tool than is debt-based money for a small group of people to manipulate a larger group.  That is to say, to rob them of a good portion of their freedom and guide the wealth of civilizations into a few people's pockets.

So, I do not really see bitcoin or PM's as the ultimate final solution but rather as a tool to help us during the death throws of our current debt-based system (USD being the proxy by virtue of it's reserve status) which is reaching EOL and a moderating force to help steer a replacement debt-based monetary system on along a more healthy path.


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July 20, 2011, 01:38:44 AM
 #49

Protection rackets upon the weak exist. It's called government.

fyp.

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MountainMan
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July 20, 2011, 02:08:01 AM
 #50

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Then it's over. We can't expect anything greater of our rulers then. Let's throw in the towel. Humanity is doomed.

Funny. I was just pointing out a flaw in Anarcho-Capitalism (actually, it's a flaw in humanity.) It's part of every human endeavour. When we overcome it, we do great things. The American system of government, when it works, is a great example of this. When we get a good ROI from our taxes, low regulation, and minimal disruption of our daily lives, while we pursue our dreams... education, invention, wealth-building, family ties, whatever.

There are more abuses and examples of corruption in the American system every day, and I'd be the last to say America is unique in allowing people great freedom. I just used it here as an example of government working.

Government, when it works, is a collective expression of the will of the majority, constrained by rational boundaries, respectful of the rights of all. In the US, the boundaries are the system of law, the Constitution, and all the derived codes and policies.

Bitcoin isn't political. It doesn't mean you can avoid taxes, or live outside the law, or anything like that. It's still a tool of commerce. You can still use it for political purposes, both as a currency and as a means of trying to live outside the system. It's your usage, not BitCoin itself, that gives it politics. I would hesitate to accept the wisdom of trying to do so, but again, you bring the politics to the table, not BitCoin.

That's what people are trying to say.
Anonymous
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July 20, 2011, 02:10:46 AM
 #51

So, the creator's intentions are irrelevant?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_Nakamoto
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July 20, 2011, 02:14:21 AM
 #52

So you beleve your life and liberty would be guaranteed by... What, exactly? You're talking bout a state of nature, which while interesting as a thought experiment in political theory has no basis in realty.

So again, accepting that we live in this universe, what should the role of a government be with regards to it's citizens?

My life and liberty would be guaranteed by my own efforts and the efforts of those who voluntarily contributed to that endeavor. There is nothing wrong with collective action and mutual aid as long as it is voluntary.

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July 20, 2011, 02:20:57 AM
 #53

Your wording makes it sound a bit like you think decentralized means distributed wealth? There are still going to be obscenely rich bitcoin holders and very poor bitcoin holders.

I don't expect Bitcoin to repeal Pareto's principle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

If everyone tries to produce the best they can. I expect 80% to go to the top 20%.  This is actually fractal and so the top 4% get 64% of income.  This is natural and fair to me.
But Politicians and other Tax Parasites might have to find honest gainful employment instead of riding along with their feet up and not peddling.

Not as good as gold, BETTER.
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July 20, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
 #54

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So, the creator's intentions are irrelevant?
I think that's thoroughly obvious. It's uncontrollable by its very nature... you can't attach any sort of ideology to the use of BitCoin, because all ideologies (except perhaps nihilism) are equally attachable... it's certainly more useful to some than others, but that's part of the politics, not the tool.
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July 20, 2011, 02:23:25 AM
 #55

Bitcoin is a tool.

So is Atlas.

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Anonymous
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July 20, 2011, 02:23:58 AM
 #56

...but if Bitcoin is accepted by the majority, it will achieve a more free society.

This does not mean it is tied to an ideology in your eyes even though it meets its ends?
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July 20, 2011, 02:24:52 AM
 #57


You're just jealous because he gets laid more than you.

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July 20, 2011, 02:29:24 AM
 #58

"A more free society" isn't a political ideology. It's a result of using a tool. A political ideology simply provides a lens to view the results of using a tool... one ideology will say it's good, another will say it's bad. There's nothing inherently political about the usage, by itself.
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July 20, 2011, 02:39:14 AM
 #59

Boy, all this attention from Atlas.  Amusing.

Jeff Garzik, bitcoin core dev team and BitPay engineer; opinions are my own, not my employer.
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July 20, 2011, 03:46:01 AM
 #60

So, the creator's intentions are irrelevant?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_Nakamoto

Yes
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