2013-09-26 Forbes - There Are Bad Bitcoin Investments And Then There Are Ones...

[callem]

There Are Bad Bitcoin Investments And Then There Are Ones That Just Don't Make Sense In The First Place

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/09/26/there-are-bad-bitcoin-investments-and-then-there-are-ones-that-just-dont-make-sense-in-the-first-place/

I will admit to being surprised at how the Bitcoin show keeps on going given that I’ve several times proffered my considered opinion that it’s all going to go belly up. However, if Bitcoin is ultimately successful or not  is a rather different question from the point about whether various of the investment opportunities we’re being offered are a good idea or not. Which brings me to two little stories today, one an investment opportunity that looks like it might be pretty bad and one that just doesn’t make any sense at all.
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[marcus_of_augustus]

He doesn't know what he doesn't know ...

And that’s something that you can do just as well as they can: ...

... maybe, maybe not. He probably does not understand the security implications of physically securing private keys that could be worth in the millions of dollars in this case. Unless he really is a linux security admin + bitcoin expert (I don't think so, he's wearing a tie and suspenders.)

[jarhed]

For whatever reason I read that entire Forbes nonsense.........

Short answer, Time Management.

All they’re going to do is buy a pile of Bitcoins and then sit on them until they’re worth more. And that’s something that you can do just as well as they can: thus it makes no sense at all to be paying them fees for doing it.

[Bitcopia]

For whatever reason I read that entire Forbes nonsense.........

Short answer, Time Management.

All they’re going to do is buy a pile of Bitcoins and then sit on them until they’re worth more. And that’s something that you can do just as well as they can: thus it makes no sense at all to be paying them fees for doing it.

Yep, it's funny the people who write about bitcoin who have no idea what they are talking about. Yet, they write as if they are the ultimate knowledge source. In my situation, it makes sense to learn how to secure my bitcoins properly and buy and sell them on some of the not so user friendly exchanges. However, this is not a simple process, particularly the security aspect. And to some, it is likely impossible for them to really understand it, at least at this point in time. Therefore, if you want to invest in bitcoin without spending countless hours studying its depths and vulnerabilities, it would make sense to pay a 2% fee.

I'd like to see Tim Worstall beef up a wallet with millions of dollars of bitcoins and secure it all by his proud self.

[Tirapon]

If you read the comments, two people have called him out on the issue of trading on exchanges, and explained that once you have money on the exchange, you don't have to wait for confirmations when you make a trade. He still doesn't get it.

[callem]

It is slightly amusing to watch writers with little grasp of bitcoin try to justify previous bad predictions, then come up with even more bad predictions.

Some journalists could do themselves a big favor by learning some facts before continuing to write nonsense.

[jarhed]

Do the world a favor Tim Worstall, quit.

[kjlimo]

Would this guy store gold bricks in a safe at home... worth millions of dollars?

At some point, you start building security, or putting them in a safety deposit box, yes?

[aigeezer]

Would this guy store gold bricks in a safe at home... worth millions of dollars?

At some point, you start building security, or putting them in a safety deposit box, yes?

No to a safety deposit box, based on precedent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

Yes to some security measures, for sure.

[kjlimo]

Would this guy store gold bricks in a safe at home... worth millions of dollars?

At some point, you start building security, or putting them in a safety deposit box, yes?

No to a safety deposit box, based on precedent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

Yes to some security measures, for sure.

Interesting... think there will be an executive order of this nature for bitcoin soon???

[callem]

Would this guy store gold bricks in a safe at home... worth millions of dollars?

At some point, you start building security, or putting them in a safety deposit box, yes?

No to a safety deposit box, based on precedent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

Yes to some security measures, for sure.

Interesting... think there will be an executive order of this nature for bitcoin soon???

No one likely saw Executive Order 6102 coming before it was announced. When the USD/Euro go into what some see as an inevitable freefall against real assets (gold, silver, bitcoin) all bets are off.

[RodeoX]

So the guy who kept saying bitcoin will fail now has some advice about how to invest in bitcoin?
What could go wrong? 

[DeathAndTaxes]

Would this guy store gold bricks in a safe at home... worth millions of dollars?

At some point, you start building security, or putting them in a safety deposit box, yes?

No to a safety deposit box, based on precedent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

Yes to some security measures, for sure.

Interesting... think there will be an executive order of this nature for bitcoin soon???

No one likely saw Executive Order 6102 coming before it was announced. When the USD/Euro go into what some see as an inevitable freefall against real assets (gold, silver, bitcoin) all bets are off.

More importantly since gold has a physical form it becomes much easier to confiscate.  I mean a gold bar is a gold bar kinda hard to hide that.  An encrypted wallet is just numbers.  With some forms of deniable encryption it can be impossible to prove the encrypted file even exists.  Kinda hard to say "I forgot the password" for your gold safe.  Ok the government will gladly drill it open for you.

The key difference between Bitcoin and all other forms of wealth is that the "coins" are stored in the blockchain distributed across tens of thousands of computers in 100+ countries.  The fact that the wallet can be backed up and encrypted provides a measure of deniability which can't be achieved with a physical asset.  I can take a flight out of the country with a brainwallet that provides access to 1M BTC.  Try doing that with gold.

[callem]

I think he just coined the epitaph of his own journalistic career:

There are Bad Bitcoin Journalists and Then There Are Ones That Just Don't Make Any Sense in the First Place

[DeathAndTaxes]

I think he just coined the epitaph of his own journalistic career:

There are Bad Bitcoin Journalists and Then There Are Ones That Just Don't Make Any Sense in the First Place

This.  Time for these so called "Bitcoin experts" to be ridden out of town on a rail.  I mean the comments are just sad.  His logic is like saying US based HFT is impossible because a bank wire takes a couple minutes to an hour to clear.  Obviously you can't trade stocks in seconds because bank wires take longer than that.

As for the BIT, is it the cheapest way to acquire Bitcoins?  No.  Will people find it useful anyways?  Hell yeah.  You think some billionaire wants to try and figure out how to send money to the Magic the Gathering Online Exchange?  Of course not.  Time is money and he will be happy to give the BIT.  The fees may be higher but not that high.  Anyone think early round venture capital investing is fee free?  Someone using this fund isn't looking to make 2% to 3% a year.  They are taking a risk position.  They are looking for the value to double, triple, quadruple and they no there is a non-zero chance it could go to zero.  2% to 3% in fees is really nothing when the expected gains OR losses are a magnitude more.

[Carlton Banks]

I think this is a tacitly a ringing endorsement. Why?

They know.

This is straight out of the financial journalists playbook, page 1. The whole financial world (who have their heads screwed on, that is) are fully aware that the value of derivatives and shadow banking losses are many, many multiples of all the money that exists in the world, that dozens of decades are needed to pay it off to anything like a manageable sum, if it's ever possible. This would mean austerity for the rich as well as the poor, and they don't like the sound of that particular game, even if they are still notionally wealthy.

So they're not about to start publicly endorsing the single best investment opportunity they've ever had access to. And speaking of "access to", the fact that everyone in the world (well, nearly) has some access to BTC purchase, it's a hell of an opportunity to start giving away your hand over. Possibly the most bullish interpretation ever, but that's how the facts contextualise for me.

[marcus_of_augustus]

I think he just coined the epitaph of his own journalistic career:

There are Bad Bitcoin Journalists and Then There Are Ones That Just Don't Make Any Sense in the First Place

Touche ... good one.

[Hfleer]

I think he just coined the epitaph of his own journalistic career:

There are Bad Bitcoin Journalists and Then There Are Ones That Just Don't Make Any Sense in the First Place

Touche ... good one.

You have a way with words, and I agree the author is clueless.