[2018-03-02] Bank of England head 'Bitcoin is for fools'

[gentlemand]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-5455703/Bitcoin-fools-says-BoE-governor-Mark-Carney.html

Another classic from Mark Carney.

Now what's interesting about this is the comments. Commenters do like being arch anyway, but there's barely a negative comment regarding BTC in there. Unimaginable a few years ago.

These banking types really are doing a wonderful job of Streisand Effecting crypto. Keep it up, boys.

[BitHodler]

I am a fool for wanting to have the financial freedom I was never allowed to have by this system.

I am a fool for seeing my wealth grow year after year, while the majority of the no-coiners see their wealth decrease, and lose purchasing power on their existing wealth at the same time.

It's just common central bank gibberish, which is nothing new anymore. Let me be the fool they think I am for using Bitcoin, and I'll let them be the suckers that became redundant at the moment Bitcoin came to life.

Once we're 10 or so years away from now, the same banks will become fools to at the moment they understand that adopting Bitcoin is the only logical way to bring their entire operations to the next level.

[gentlemand]

It's just common central bank gibberish, which is nothing new anymore.

Most central bank comments have been perfectly sensible and factual - no one controls it, there won't be any bailout, it could go to zero, we can't do anything if it does go tits up, most of the places you use to interact with it are dodgy as fuck.

And I do find it extremely irritating when Bitcoin fans don't acknowledge that they're talking sense.

It's fairly rare for them to take it to next level whining. I would keep my gob shut and let it play out myself, especially at this stage of the game.

[d5000]

When I read the headline, I associated it with the phrase greater fools' game. And it seems true that Mr. Carney used the term in this context (bubbles that attract 'fools').

The problem is that these "fools" really exist and are acting in a "foolish" way - the classic "buy high, sell low" folks that buy an asset at the moment of maximum hype - and thus pays the highest price for it. These are the people that bought Bitcoin for $15 or even $19K and sold in panic at $8K.

Even if Bitcoin's price continues to grow, if volatility is not lowered drastically, there will be moments where such "fools" will lose big amounts of money. Let's imagine a Bitcoin that stabilizes at a final price level of about $200.000 but before has seen a bubble to $1 million. Those that paid $1M will never see 80% of their money again. And prices simply cannot go up indefinitely.

FOMO is definitively a problem in the cryptocurrency community, and we should not underestimate its negative side effects on the acceptance of Bitcoin in the population. Bitcoin may be more accepted now than some years ago, but as long as people lose money investing in it, it will have its detractors.

[gentlemand]

When I read the headline, I associated it with the phrase greater fools' game. And it seems true that Mr. Carney used the term in this context (bubbles that attract 'fools').

The problem is that these "fools" really exist and are acting in a "foolish" way - the classic "buy high, sell low" folks that buy an asset at the moment of maximum hype - and thus pays the highest price for it. These are the people that bought Bitcoin for $15 or even $19K and sold in panic at $8K.

Even if Bitcoin's price continues to grow, if volatility is not lowered drastically, there will be moments where such "fools" will lose big amounts of money. Let's imagine a Bitcoin that stabilizes at a final price level of about $200.000 but before has seen a bubble to $1 million. Those that paid $1M will never see 80% of their money again. And prices simply cannot go up indefinitely.

FOMO is definitively a problem in the cryptocurrency community, and we should not underestimate its negative side effects on the acceptance of Bitcoin in the population. Bitcoin may be more accepted now than some years ago, but as long as people lose money investing in it, it will have its detractors.

They've lost vast amounts in the past and no doubt will again. Same goes for stocks, spread betting, options, forex, property, classic cars, you name it. Bitcoin really isn't behaving much differently, it's just the addition of adoption and discovery is making it faster.

And it anyone's responsible for bubbles it's people of his ilk. Everything has been in a bubble.

The negativity he's attributing to it can be just as easily applied to most other things out there. He has his points but they're tired and obvious ones.

[d5000]

The problem is the graduation. In stock markets, something like the Dotcom bubble happens every 10 years or so, and something like the tulip mania once in 100 or 200 years. In the crypto world, we see insane Tulip manias every 2 years or so.

You can't deny that volatility in cryptocurrency markets is much higher than in almost all other markets. Basically, because nobody knows the "fair valuation": Bulls claim they will replace all fiat currencies and assets and are heading to astronomical prices, while bears claim they're unsustainable and will have zero value once the hype is over.

Cryptocurrencies must work on that problem if they want to become a real alternative to fiat money, otherwise they will be seen mainly as an alternative to gambling. The best way to start is to use them as a currency, for them to get a more stable connection to the real economy (I'll say this again and again, and no, that's not an endorsement of Bitcoin Cash ).

[Irvinn]

What else can you hear from the head of the bank about the crypto currency, except for the negative. If the crypto-currency deprives them of the profits they are accustomed to have, without bothering, because there was no other alternative at all. And here there is a technology that allows you to instantly make transfers without the participation of banks and other intermediaries at any time of the day. Of course, bankers will be unhappy with this technology. In addition, it should be noted that it is representatives of banks that are so critical of the crypto currency, it is they who are most affected by it.

[Taki]

Bitcoin will not last forever. That is what I believe in. They can call us fools or what ever at the moment when everything will disappear and huge investments of some people will just burn in a moment. But till now when bitcoin and other crypto currencies give us positive income and independence from banks and governments we are not fools, no
I think this message of the bank was made in bigger case for newbies who just heard about crypto currencies, but did n't get exactly how it works and how to earn with that. The target is simple - to stay away those people from bitcoin, to not loos those people as clients of the bank.

[jjacob]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-5455703/Bitcoin-fools-says-BoE-governor-Mark-Carney.html

Another classic from Mark Carney.

Now what's interesting about this is the comments. Commenters do like being arch anyway, but there's barely a negative comment regarding BTC in there. Unimaginable a few years ago.

These banking types really are doing a wonderful job of Streisand Effecting crypto. Keep it up, boys.

He makes some contradictory statements there. He says it is for fools, but also warns about the danger that Bitcoin could be used for money laundering and terrorist financing. He also compares it to lotteries. If he derides Bitcoin and thinks it is only for fools, why is he so worried about it? Why doesn't he ignore it until it goes out of fashion, like he expects it would?

[Qartersa]

I do not mind being called a fool if I earn good bucks without mandatorily working for a full shift. These kind of nasty opinions do not have any bearing as to me, especially so that my earnings or capability to earn do not depend on how badly they comment on the job I am in. This, to me, remains to be an honorable investment so long as I know I do not do anything illegal in the country I am in nor do I circumvent any laws in pursuit of my belief in cryptocurrencies.

These statements, if taken so seriously by the public at large, would cause the price of Bitcoin to suffer. I would like to think this is YET another way of influencing the public to not buy or hold their Bitcoins.

Hence, we have to be wary on who to believe in. In this day and age, it is our obligation to guard ourselves from people who's only concerned about their own interests.

[1Referee]

Bitcoin will not last forever. That is what I believe in.

Nothing is certain in this world, but the thing that we can *almost* be sure of, is that crypto is becoming a whole new asset class. Currently we're in the very early bumpy stage, which due to that is not really contributing towards actual usage, but that will change. After the current stage, we'll see become Bitcoin become far more of an instrument stimulating people to actually use Bitcoin as a currency.

But till now when bitcoin and other crypto currencies give us positive income and independence from banks and governments we are not fools, no

Freedom from banks, yes, but what's the point of explicitly mentioning the term positive income? This basically applies to all people stating that crypto allows them to make profit. You making profits through crypto means that on the other side there are people losing, so it's not that everyone experiences the same as you guys do. In that regard it's a very relative (weak) statement. Don't forget that just holding Bitcoin doesn't necessarily mean you are actually benefitting financially. As long as you aren't selling or spending your coins, there is no difference between your coins being worth just $10 combined, or $1,000,000 combined. In other words, losses or profits on paper don't really matter. It's all in the mind.

[buwaytress]

I am a fool for wanting to have the financial freedom I was never allowed to have by this system.

I am a fool for seeing my wealth grow year after year, while the majority of the no-coiners see their wealth decrease, and lose purchasing power on their existing wealth at the same time.

It's just common central bank gibberish, which is nothing new anymore. Let me be the fool they think I am for using Bitcoin, and I'll let them be the suckers that became redundant at the moment Bitcoin came to life.

Once we're 10 or so years away from now, the same banks will become fools to at the moment they understand that adopting Bitcoin is the only logical way to bring their entire operations to the next level.

I do get the sentiment there. I think a lot of people also lost money in other types of investments standing on the same promises of Bitcoin (that people believed in them didn't make them true, of course) and in hindsight, they might have been fools to believe otherwise. Perhaps one day, that same hindight might prove us Bitcoin advocates fools. Can you imagine these ideals... financial freedom, full control over your funds, direct transactions, decentralised governance... they sound almost too good to be true, and for the uninitiated, they probably are too good to be true. I can certainly remember my own reservations about Bitcoin all those years ago, holding me back years before I finally relented.

We cannot also discount that some banks are finally realising what an existential threat Bitcoin is revealing itself to be. And this type of comment reflects their anguish, their anger, at being forced to face the beginning of their existence as they know it.

Here's to the crazy people, the fools...

[Kprawn]

Carney added: 'Crypto-assets raise a host of issues around consumer and investor protection, market integrity, money laundering, terrorism financing, tax evasion, and the circumvention of capital controls and international sanctions.'

I could not help laughing when I read that, because Banks have been the primary method to launder money. I will point to

my own thread here --> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3057704.new#new to elaborate a bit more. I think some of

these Banks are jealous because all that money is not going to go through their networks.  

They might even be jealous because of this -->  " Carney said: '[It's time] to hold the crypto-asset ecosystem to the same

standards as the rest of the financial system." 

[d5000]

He makes some contradictory statements there. He says it is for fools, but also warns about the danger that Bitcoin could be used for money laundering and terrorist financing.

I see no contradiction. There are many kinds of Bitcoin users. Under them are, among others, criminals and traders. The "fools" he refers to are the newbie traders that invest in Bitcoin only in the mania phase - and lose money, above all if they sell low. He never says that Bitcoin "only" attracts fools.

I think we all here know that Bitcoin has an enormous potential for legitimate use cases. What we need is more people that make use of them. If we had, then we could easily refute statements like this banker's rant. But it's difficult if most users really fall into the user groups he cites (fools & criminals, and I would add some big whales that make enormous profits).

Bitcoin's extreme volatility - something many BCT users are viewing as something good - is actually the biggest problem that hinders such use cases, because it makes many serious use cases - e.g. paying salaries in Bitcoin - very risky.

If he derides Bitcoin and thinks it is only for fools, why is he so worried about it? Why doesn't he ignore it until it goes out of fashion, like he expects it would?

Because bubbles can lead to major economic turbulences. Extreme example: If everybody invested their savings in Bitcoin, and one year after that mania Bitcoin was only 5% worth than at the high, many people would become insolvent.

[tee-rex]

I am a fool for wanting to have the financial freedom I was never allowed to have by this system.

I am a fool for seeing my wealth grow year after year, while the majority of the no-coiners see their wealth decrease, and lose purchasing power on their existing wealth at the same time.

It's just common central bank gibberish, which is nothing new anymore. Let me be the fool they think I am for using Bitcoin, and I'll let them be the suckers that became redundant at the moment Bitcoin came to life.

Once we're 10 or so years away from now, the same banks will become fools to at the moment they understand that adopting Bitcoin is the only logical way to bring their entire operations to the next level.

I agree that it is typical central bank nonsense and bullshit. However, let's face it you see your wealth grow year after year simply because people are buying from the guys like you and that pushes the price higher. But if you wanted to book your profits, you would have to sell your stash to someone else. Indeed, you can claim that you are not going to sell your coins for fiat and that you don't give a fuck about it either, I understand that. But how can you say then that your wealth actually keeps growing? A simple question, really.

[SKRAAA]

They think that they can influence people's opinion this way but most people don't fall for such words anymore. They know that the banksters are not on their side and their agenda is not to protect common people but it is to keep their position and power. And bitcoin is a threat for them.

[dbers79]

Can't teach an old dog new tricks. And if you're so high up on your pedestal, it's very hard to come down to where reality is. Central bankers will always be resistant to change or would always put on the act of being resistant for the benefit of whoever it is that they are subservient to. Little do we know, for all the talk that they are doing, these people are already moving behind the scenes to ensure that they get a big slice of the pie should the said pie turn out to be better than expected. Change is hard for those who are caught in the middle of it, but eventually, everyone will fall in line.

[Aikidoka]

They can just say whatever they want because they are scared of bitcoin and the later is a threat to them. If the corrupted government does not provide people with decent jobs and decent income, then I believe no one will resort to anything else. Wealthy people have it all and the poor are ignored. It is sad to see these kind of educated people wannabes using the term "fools" in an attempt to make us feel down. And that is not going to happen.

[Harlot]

I think "Bitcoin are for Fools" belong to the default answers/ statements of people who really don't know what they are talking about. It is somewhere near "Bitcoin is a scam" as really this kinds of people really have nothing to add new on their views about Bitcoin. Especially people who are working in the government, their statements must be as neutral as possible in order to don't hit a lot of people. Usually when I read or hear people with those lines I immediately stop talking to them about Bitcoin as I know they belong to the group that rather not know Bitcoin or just have missed the growth of it and now is being salty about it.

[DooMAD]

Can't teach an old dog new tricks. And if you're so high up on your pedestal, it's very hard to come down to where reality is. Central bankers will always be resistant to change or would always put on the act of being resistant for the benefit of whoever it is that they are subservient to. Little do we know, for all the talk that they are doing, these people are already moving behind the scenes to ensure that they get a big slice of the pie should the said pie turn out to be better than expected. Change is hard for those who are caught in the middle of it, but eventually, everyone will fall in line.

There's certainly some truth to that.  The other factor is that because fiat is so hopelessly prone to corruption and abuse, central bankers have to be fiscally and legislatively conservative.  They don't have the option of embracing anything radical and new.  It's not in their nature.  They don't have the capability of trusting something which they can't micromanage every aspect of, but they also can't recognise the fact that no one needs to micromanage it.  It works just fine without someone at the steering wheel, which is also precisely the reason why most of us use it.  Because of all that, they simply can't adapt to what we're doing. 

Not to mention the abject hypocrisy of allowing the banksters to magic-up-out-of-nowhere a $1.2 quadrillion toxic derivatives time-bomb and then accusing us of being "fools".  Time will be the judge of who the real fools are, I'm sure.