Government Shutdown Didn't Increase BTC Value

[BittBurger]

Someone predicted it would.  It didn't.

Bummer.

[johnyj]

Government shutdown just mean there is less money to spend, so money become scarce and USD will rise

[mogrith]

this is mainly posturing. Real move will be Oct 17-18 if debit ceiling is not raised.

[johnyj]

Here you can see the big difference between China and USA: Since newly printed money belongs to Chinese government (they own the central bank) , their government will never have this problem, just like FED will never run into debt (Why FED is an exception of fiscal discipline? )

When debt ceiling can not be raised and the government ran out of choice, they might ask FED to write off their debt. If FED does not agree, they could remove FED and start to print money for themselves (There is no really good reason why FED can print money for themselves while government can not), that will become a huge event  

[theonewhowaskazu]

Here you can see the big difference between China and USA: Since newly printed money belongs to Chinese government (they own the central bank) , their government will never have this problem, just like FED will never run into debt (Why FED is an exception of fiscal discipline? )

When debt ceiling can not be raised and the government ran out of choice, they might ask FED to write off their debt. If FED does not agree, they could remove FED and start to print money for themselves (There is no really good reason why FED can print money for themselves while government can not), that will become a huge event  

The government does effectively print money for itself, through the creation of bonds. The bonds are then bought with the newly-printed fed money. The only problem with this plan is that the debt ceiling will need to be raised periodically. After all, what exactly is the Fed going to do when a bond finally pays out? Buy more bonds with this new money, obviously. So the fed really isn't printing its own money at all, it is printing the government's money, while giving a bunch of bankers a small cut to make it look like its some sort of stimulus project rather than a money printing scheme to finance government debt.

[johnyj]

Here you can see the big difference between China and USA: Since newly printed money belongs to Chinese government (they own the central bank) , their government will never have this problem, just like FED will never run into debt (Why FED is an exception of fiscal discipline? )

When debt ceiling can not be raised and the government ran out of choice, they might ask FED to write off their debt. If FED does not agree, they could remove FED and start to print money for themselves (There is no really good reason why FED can print money for themselves while government can not), that will become a huge event  

The government does effectively print money for itself, through the creation of bonds. The bonds are then bought with the newly-printed fed money. The only problem with this plan is that the debt ceiling will need to be raised periodically. After all, what exactly is the Fed going to do when a bond finally pays out? Buy more bonds with this new money, obviously. So the fed really isn't printing its own money at all, it is printing the government's money, while giving a bunch of bankers a small cut to make it look like its some sort of stimulus project rather than a money printing scheme to finance government debt.

It seems that many people have the impression that FED do not print money for themselves, I don't know where is the root of this knowledge, is it from economy books?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=298681.msg3281251#msg3281251

[nuffsaid420]

Here you can see the big difference between China and USA: Since newly printed money belongs to Chinese government (they own the central bank) , their government will never have this problem, just like FED will never run into debt (Why FED is an exception of fiscal discipline? )

When debt ceiling can not be raised and the government ran out of choice, they might ask FED to write off their debt. If FED does not agree, they could remove FED and start to print money for themselves (There is no really good reason why FED can print money for themselves while government can not), that will become a huge event  

The government does effectively print money for itself, through the creation of bonds. The bonds are then bought with the newly-printed fed money. The only problem with this plan is that the debt ceiling will need to be raised periodically. After all, what exactly is the Fed going to do when a bond finally pays out? Buy more bonds with this new money, obviously. So the fed really isn't printing its own money at all, it is printing the government's money, while giving a bunch of bankers a small cut to make it look like its some sort of stimulus project rather than a money printing scheme to finance government debt.

It seems that many people have the impression that FED do not print money for themselves, I don't know where is the root of this knowledge, is it from economy books?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=298681.msg3281251#msg3281251

It says right there on the money "federal reserve note" if you look back at older money it actually said something different.  This is all play money, none of it is real, just numbers in the matrix.

Also I am surprised(not really) that congress decided to furlough all these park workers and yet want to keep their paycheck themselves, with the excuse of "...... some congress members are middle class and depend on their paychecks to make their mortgage." - Congressman on radio(dont remember who or what party)

Personally if my congress member can not correctly handle his own finances how are they supposed to fix Washington?

[bitster]

This is why iam really starting to hate the bitcoin market, gov shutdown continued fed printing= no price increase. SR shutdown= price drop seriously FU bitcoin FU....   iam still hold tho

[driksson]

dont you think the feds made the sales of the confiscated wallets immediately? there were sales of 5-8-10-12k coins, surely put at any limit of sale, just to get rid of.. and if they sell at any price.. buyers take advantage. When they sold all wallets, market recoups, just as it did.. back now at 119.. after dipping around 80.

[theonewhowaskazu]

dont you think the feds made the sales of the confiscated wallets immediately? there were sales of 5-8-10-12k coins, surely put at any limit of sale, just to get rid of.. and if they sell at any price.. buyers take advantage. When they sold all wallets, market recoups, just as it did.. back now at 119.. after dipping around 80.

The chances of this are close to 0. The FBI doesn't just arrest someone and start selling his or her assets. They will only do that, if ever, after they have received permission from the court which could take years.

[btdir]

what will increase the value?

[desired_username]

what will increase the value?

Growing adoption.

[BitChick]

I was hoping that people would begin to distrust the US Government because of the shutdown and consider purchasing BTC.  But I guess as long as people are not personally affected by the shut down there is no real incentive?  It seems that most people in the US are pretty apathetic about the government.  They say they care but in reality the sentiment seems to be "As long as it does not affect me" they really don't care what happens in Washington.  The problem is most people do not have the insight to see how the decisions will affect them in the long run.  Sometimes they have an idea, hence why the health care issue is such a big one, but when it comes to national debt, raising the debt ceiling and so on, the devaluation of the dollar happens slowly and people do not seem to notice it happened or what the reasons are. 

Just my thoughts on this.

[BitChick]

This is why iam really starting to hate the bitcoin market, gov shutdown continued fed printing= no price increase. SR shutdown= price drop seriously FU bitcoin FU....   iam still hold tho

Patience my friend.  It will happen and it will be crazy fast when it does!  The Bitcoin market seems to be long waits with huge spikes.  Being able to take advantage of those is the real trick though.   I learned this when buying a few at $48 only to have it climb in a month to the highest price ever.  Of course I was one of those that bought as it went up.  Should have had some patience then but human nature is such that when the price rises we don't want to be left behind!

So it is just a matter of time! 

[viboracecata]

This is why iam really starting to hate the bitcoin market, gov shutdown continued fed printing= no price increase. SR shutdown= price drop seriously FU bitcoin FU....   iam still hold tho

Patience my friend.  It will happen and it will be crazy fast when it does!  The Bitcoin market seems to be long waits with huge spikes.  Being able to take advantage of those is the real trick though.   I learned this when buying a few at $48 only to have it climb in a month to the highest price ever.  Of course I was one of those that bought as it went up.  Should have had some patience then but human nature is such that when the price rises we don't want to be left behind!

So it is just a matter of time! 

I intensively felt the price will have another skyrocket recently

[polarhei]

Well, the important questions is on the 17 October.

If the raising fails, then there may be more people like to buy BTC or equivalent such as silver, gold, crude oil, copper.

[clock27]

btc will be awesome if the govt defaults and still good if it doesn't

[allthingsluxury]

This is a mini shut-down at best and everyday more and more "vital" workers are being brought back on.

[DeathAndTaxes]

dont you think the feds made the sales of the confiscated wallets immediately? there were sales of 5-8-10-12k coins, surely put at any limit of sale, just to get rid of.. and if they sell at any price.. buyers take advantage. When they sold all wallets, market recoups, just as it did.. back now at 119.. after dipping around 80.

The chances of this are close to 0. The FBI doesn't just arrest someone and start selling his or her assets. They will only do that, if ever, after they have received permission from the court which could take years.

This.  Asset forfeiture isn't something new or novel.  The fact that it involves Bitcoins might be but there are long established procedures for forfeiture. The DOJ seizes all kinds of assets, vaults of gold, stocks, stock and bank accounts even warehouses (literally warehouses) of cash.  Then there are the mansions, yachts, jets (hell even giant cargo jets), cars, luxury watches, etc.  Every once and a while a drug bust turns up some rare painting or other work of art.

It all gets EVENTUALLY sold at auction.  However until convicted the assets are the property of the original owner.  Once there is a conviction the DOJ will file for forfeiture.  Simple version is the govt says "this is the proceeds of a criminal enterprise as we are taking ownership".  That legal battle may take months to YEARS and only starts months or years AFTER a verdict in the original court case.

For those thinking the FBI sold the coins on MtGox overnight.  Imagine the small but not zero chance that the SR operator is found innocent.  His lawyers first action would to file for a court order demanding the return of his clients unlawfully seized property.  If the FBI already sold something which wasn't theirs and the price in the meantime trippled .... ouch.

The wheels of justice are amazingly slow.  Those thinking this will be resolved in days or weeks will be disappointed.   We might be talking in 2014 or 2015 about a public notice filed because the DOJ is looking to sell some Bitcoins.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Well, the important questions is on the 17 October.

If the raising fails, then there may be more people like to buy BTC or equivalent such as silver, gold, crude oil, copper.

a real shutdown will never happen. why make a shutdown when you can print your own money for free? raise the debt limit to 999999999999999999999999999999999999999 $ and be quite....