Opinion on the US

[psyclon]

The biggest shortcoming of the US: The laws and judgements handed down vary GREATLY from state to state and jury from jury, and therefore in my opinion this takes away any feeling of 'rule of law'. Don't agree yet? Let me give you an example for the rule of law in America today: Morton Berger, a high school teacher gets 200 years for the possession of 20 lewd images of children. This happens in Arizona, where the 200 years is exactly the MINIMUM MANDATORY sentence for this crime of possessing 20 lewd images (10 years per count, each image a different count, to be served consecutively). Berger took this to the Sumpreme Court, which threw his case out without even hearing it. Why? because in America you dont discuss such taboo subjects, or else you will look bad. Not to mention that in a state like Hawaii this would not even result in his incarceration AT ALL, and even in neighboring states he would have gotten off with a suspended or a 1-2 year sentence. The federal law dictates 5 years maximum. Yet against all this, his quasi-life term was not ruled unconstitutional or cruel by any higher court.

Talking of which, let's now skip to 2013, when Terry Peters, the husband of the Bush era Transportation Secretary was sentenced to 14 years for raping a 7-year old girl. Arizona also, even the same county if I got it right. Have a look around, where can you find reports of either of these two? Google news will bring up 1-2 American reports on them.

This above example illustrates the rule of law in america where laws are made to please the masses, and if so need be, the media will do as told - just like in the so called worst communist regimes of the world. America, where downloading lewd images gets you life, while raping an actual child 14 years.

It could be a great country, and it sure was built on great values. However, as the above illustrates it has drifted far from those values in the past couple decades especially.

in short, justice system is a joke, and so is the media. I would rather live in a place like singapore where laws are as tough as they get, yet you KNOW what you will get or not get for a given offense.

Why don't you talk about rules in Iran or Iraq, some people here like those countries so much. Over there woman would be killed if somebody rapes her. Sure the rapists would be free.
And again, why don't you really leave for Singapore?

at the very least those countries you mention don't advertise themselves as bastillions of freedom, and their citizens don't believe that either. also, they don't go on invading random countries (Libya, Iraq) with made-up excuses every 5-10 years. In all, the US is probably one of the worst cases of a police state, and I personally feel a lot more free in China or Russia than in the US.

Singapore is a great place, and I would leave there given the chance. Any day.

and dont forget this democracy bullshit, either. Americans love to believe that their two-party system is the one and only truly democratic system in the world. Not to mention that really it does not make any REAL difference whether democrats or republicans are in power, have you not realized that yet?

Do you ever been in China or Russia?

I have lived in Beijing, Shenzhen and Hong Kong. Although HK doesn't count as China.

How about you, Oldgamer? Have you been to China or North Korea? or have only heard of these places on CNN?

You been in those countries as a tourist, you did not live there. China made some success only because they start to move to free market direction, and in most places people still very poor. In big cities they live better, thank to the jobs moved from US.
I lived in Russia, not been a tourist. My opinion based on my experience, not based on CNN, probably yours is cause that station is for leftists.
I wish you live there, probably you would have other opinion and more real knowledge.

if you care to read, I have lived in China. Also, I have been to russia and georgia (for two months), but never lived there longer, never claimed that, either.

[psyclon]

Do you ever been in China or Russia?

I have lived in Beijing, Shenzhen and Hong Kong. Although HK doesn't count as China.

How about you, Oldgamer? Have you been to China or North Korea? or have only heard of these places on CNN?

I'll guess that he's one of the immigrants who feels that he has to be a hard-core right-winger to prove his allegiance to the U.S.  I think he said he's Russian or something.  Seems like a Fox News sort of guy.

I've not been to Russia, but I have been to China.  I most certainly did NOT feel more free there.  I felt safe enough because there seemed to be pretty a pretty significant understanding that Westerners were to be treated well by the authorities.  My friends did not seem comfortable with the police at all (and they were perfectly normal software engineers and so on.)  I don't think one can put lipstick on the pig and paint China as some bastion of liberty and personal freedom.  My main hope is that we can keep the U.S. from sinking down to that level.  Of course I hope that China continues to improve, but I live in the U.S. and I care a lot more about what happens here.  And of course I care deeply about our deplorable behavior globally.

I have no intention to settle down in the US, so long as 'emotions' govern the country instead of pure reason. Fox news? please.

for all I care you could make your country become another Singapore or another Norway. So long as you remain rational and consequential, and don't employ double standards where ever you please, I don't give a fuck.  

Also, I must not let this slip: have you noticed how just after my first post on here I have already been accused by Oldgamer of watching CNN and being a leftist, while tvbcof accused me of watching Fox and being a hardcore rightist? this shit is just ridiculous, and you don't realize it. that's my point.

I am neither, and don't give half a shit about your president, either.

It can be very entertaining though when people like you two find me in real life and start to bitch about the other side. I usually just agree with them to preserve good relations. And think what I do.

[Oldgamer]

Do you ever been in China or Russia?

I have lived in Beijing, Shenzhen and Hong Kong. Although HK doesn't count as China.

How about you, Oldgamer? Have you been to China or North Korea? or have only heard of these places on CNN?

I'll guess that he's one of the immigrants who feels that he has to be a hard-core right-winger to prove his allegiance to the U.S.  I think he said he's Russian or something.  Seems like a Fox News sort of guy.

I've not been to Russia, but I have been to China.  I most certainly did NOT feel more free there.  I felt safe enough because there seemed to be pretty a pretty significant understanding that Westerners were to be treated well by the authorities.  My friends did not seem comfortable with the police at all (and they were perfectly normal software engineers and so on.)  I don't think one can put lipstick on the pig and paint China as some bastion of liberty and personal freedom.  My main hope is that we can keep the U.S. from sinking down to that level.  Of course I hope that China continues to improve, but I live in the U.S. and I care a lot more about what happens here.  And of course I care deeply about our deplorable behavior globally.

At first, in US I do not need to prove anything. Second, it is funny how one guy accused me to watch CNN, and another Fox.
And yes, in Russia you better be loyal to authorities. Not like in US.
Third, if I was feeling to prove my allegiance to the US, why I would criticize Obama? I actually can say that he is disaster for US. So, sorry, but accusing me in this does look stupid after all, does it?

[psyclon]

Do you ever been in China or Russia?

I have lived in Beijing, Shenzhen and Hong Kong. Although HK doesn't count as China.

How about you, Oldgamer? Have you been to China or North Korea? or have only heard of these places on CNN?

I'll guess that he's one of the immigrants who feels that he has to be a hard-core right-winger to prove his allegiance to the U.S.  I think he said he's Russian or something.  Seems like a Fox News sort of guy.

I've not been to Russia, but I have been to China.  I most certainly did NOT feel more free there.  I felt safe enough because there seemed to be pretty a pretty significant understanding that Westerners were to be treated well by the authorities.  My friends did not seem comfortable with the police at all (and they were perfectly normal software engineers and so on.)  I don't think one can put lipstick on the pig and paint China as some bastion of liberty and personal freedom.  My main hope is that we can keep the U.S. from sinking down to that level.  Of course I hope that China continues to improve, but I live in the U.S. and I care a lot more about what happens here.  And of course I care deeply about our deplorable behavior globally.

At first, in US I do not need to prove anything. Second, it is funny how one guy accused me to watch CNN, and another Fox.
And yes, in Russia you better be loyal to authorities. Not like in US.
Third, if I was feeling to prove my allegiance to the US, why I would criticize Obama? I actually can say that he is disaster for US. So, sorry, but accusing me in this does look stupid after all, is it?

let the people decide then 

[PrintMule]

   Recent news: Young black kid was walking home, snatched by cops and some guy, which accused that kid of theft. Black kid went to prison at age 16, and was recently released at age 20. No compensation, "you're free to go".

In Russia you'd be at least charged and trialed with some fake evidence. In US judicial system is so awkward, that stuff like this happens all the time. Jailing for facebook comments, some black dude fined for using 'nigger' word, etc.

[Biomech]

Why not to talk about Iran foreign policy or freedom in North Korea?

Aside from being a red herring, no reason.

I live in the Empire. I don't live in Iran or North Korea. But since you brought it up...

Iran, established in it's current borders during the British Mandate, formerly part of the Persian Empire. A State of (if memory serves) 27 million people, has a foreign policy of keeping their head down and flapping their tongues. They have never in their modern history invaded another country, unless you count pushing the Iraqi army back some twenty kilometers across the border in repelling their invasion.

During that same period, how many nations has the USA invaded (fuck the pretext, just the number.)

I don't know. I was born in the latter part of the first half of that history. But off the top of my head I get, in my lifetime or just before it, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Haiti (twice), Grenada, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Ethiopia, Yugoslavia, Panama, Columbia (repeatedly)... And I know this is not a complete list.

During the aforementioned time frame, Iran has pushed for, gotten, and enforced economic sanctions (which only ever strengthen the radicals under them) against, again, no country. The Empire has pushed for, gotten, and enforced so many international sanctions that even THEY lose track.

Your flag waving is annoying, to say the least, but you should REALLY pick better negative examples. Just because the master whose boots you lick so lovingly wants to invade Iran doesn't make them a good negative.

As for the comic opera that is North Korea?

What foreign policy? Glare at US troops across the DMZ?

You're not comparing apples to oranges, you're comparing apples to rocks. They don't even bear the relationship of both being fruits.

Oh, you forgot somehow participation in World War Two.
Two bad you don't want to live in Iran or North Korea and prefer US. Some dogs bite the feeding hands...
I'm sure your favorite president is Obama. And the most funny thing is you voted for him again.

How badly did you fail your reading comprehension tests in school? Based on this reply, I'd have to posit that it was a train wreck.

I said these examples were IN MY LIFETIME. I was born in 1968. I remember Vietnam, myself. I wasn't very old, but I remember it. Korea was a recent memory for my parents, and WWII was a bit more in the past.

Further, IN THIS THREAD ALONE I have mentioned multiple times that *I* DO NOT VOTE. The system is illegitimate in every sense of the word, even if one were just to buy into the existing constitution. Not one of the wars I mentioned was given legal sanction by the very government that purported to support it, thus exacerbating the problem and allowing them to use truly egregious tactics, such as abandoning their own soldiers among other things. Mai Lai did not happen in a vacuum.

H.L. Menken, who you would hate since thinking was his forte, once said “The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.”

This is me. I was once as bad a flag waving idiot as you. Well, no, not that bad, I actually read and try to understand history, but still, close. I woke up. I didn't hit the snooze button. Try it.

No, I did not vote for Obama. I did not vote for Ron Paul. I did not vote for any of them. I don't vote. If you could demonstrate any substantive difference between the Democrats and the Republicans since 1861, you'll be the first. Given your post history, I doubt you'll get there.

If you DO vote, you cannot bitch, because you have accepted the idiotic notion that the mob makes good decisions, and that they should be binding on everyone regardless of desired outcome. It's hokum, and anyone who gives it more than ten minutes thought knows so.

And one more thing. READ. When you don't, and reply anyway, it makes you look like a perfect idiot. Nobody is perfect, but appearances and all that...

[Oldgamer]

Why not to talk about Iran foreign policy or freedom in North Korea?

Aside from being a red herring, no reason.

I live in the Empire. I don't live in Iran or North Korea. But since you brought it up...

Iran, established in it's current borders during the British Mandate, formerly part of the Persian Empire. A State of (if memory serves) 27 million people, has a foreign policy of keeping their head down and flapping their tongues. They have never in their modern history invaded another country, unless you count pushing the Iraqi army back some twenty kilometers across the border in repelling their invasion.

During that same period, how many nations has the USA invaded (fuck the pretext, just the number.)

I don't know. I was born in the latter part of the first half of that history. But off the top of my head I get, in my lifetime or just before it, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Haiti (twice), Grenada, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Ethiopia, Yugoslavia, Panama, Columbia (repeatedly)... And I know this is not a complete list.

During the aforementioned time frame, Iran has pushed for, gotten, and enforced economic sanctions (which only ever strengthen the radicals under them) against, again, no country. The Empire has pushed for, gotten, and enforced so many international sanctions that even THEY lose track.

Your flag waving is annoying, to say the least, but you should REALLY pick better negative examples. Just because the master whose boots you lick so lovingly wants to invade Iran doesn't make them a good negative.

As for the comic opera that is North Korea?

What foreign policy? Glare at US troops across the DMZ?

You're not comparing apples to oranges, you're comparing apples to rocks. They don't even bear the relationship of both being fruits.

i did not read whole your post after you call opponent an

Oh, you forgot somehow participation in World War Two.
Two bad you don't want to live in Iran or North Korea and prefer US. Some dogs bite the feeding hands...
I'm sure your favorite president is Obama. And the most funny thing is you voted for him again.

How badly did you fail your reading comprehension tests in school? Based on this reply, I'd have to posit that it was a train wreck.

I said these examples were IN MY LIFETIME. I was born in 1968. I remember Vietnam, myself. I wasn't very old, but I remember it. Korea was a recent memory for my parents, and WWII was a bit more in the past.

Further, IN THIS THREAD ALONE I have mentioned multiple times that *I* DO NOT VOTE. The system is illegitimate in every sense of the word, even if one were just to buy into the existing constitution. Not one of the wars I mentioned was given legal sanction by the very government that purported to support it, thus exacerbating the problem and allowing them to use truly egregious tactics, such as abandoning their own soldiers among other things. Mai Lai did not happen in a vacuum.

H.L. Menken, who you would hate since thinking was his forte, once said “The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.”

This is me. I was once as bad a flag waving idiot as you. Well, no, not that bad, I actually read and try to understand history, but still, close. I woke up. I didn't hit the snooze button. Try it.

No, I did not vote for Obama. I did not vote for Ron Paul. I did not vote for any of them. I don't vote. If you could demonstrate any substantive difference between the Democrats and the Republicans since 1861, you'll be the first. Given your post history, I doubt you'll get there.

If you DO vote, you cannot bitch, because you have accepted the idiotic notion that the mob makes good decisions, and that they should be binding on everyone regardless of desired outcome. It's hokum, and anyone who gives it more than ten minutes thought knows so.

And one more thing. READ. When you don't, and reply anyway, it makes you look like a perfect idiot. Nobody is perfect, but appearances and all that...

I did not read your post to the end, I stopped after you called the opponent "an idiot". It says enough about you. And yes, I think it is good you did not vote. At least you did some positive things in your life.

[Oldgamer]

   Recent news: Young black kid was walking home, snatched by cops and some guy, which accused that kid of theft. Black kid went to prison at age 16, and was recently released at age 20. No compensation, "you're free to go".

In Russia you'd be at least charged and trialed with some fake evidence. In US judicial system is so awkward, that stuff like this happens all the time. Jailing for facebook comments, some black dude fined for using 'nigger' word, etc.

Yeah, and only in US you can find streets named after black criminals.
Only in US thanks to special programs black guy will be accepted in college easier than white one.
Only in US the black community organizer can become the president just because his black.
Only in US the same community organizer will be reelected when country falling into disaster, and for the same reason.
And do not criticize community organizer, otherwise you will be called racist.
I can continue, but I am not going to follow this post anymore.

[hawkeye]

I only beat my wife once a week.  That guy over there beats his every day!  My wife should thank her lucky stars that she is not with that other guy and shouldn't complain.

[Honeypot]

I love it when anti-American fools can't even get off their own asses to fix their country so shit doesn't spill over their borders. Hence, requiring whatever international body or more often, US, to come in and remove the problem.

Case in point: China can't even talk to other asian nations without getting into a bitchfest about some piece rock in the south pacific.

US government is relatively benign compared to what other nations would be doing if they held such power and influence in their hands. Honestly speaking, no other nation comes even close in terms of how much fucking 'apologies' and 'reparations' that US government fully acknowledged and handed out. Even then, we don't believe that 'absolves' any mistakes made in the past - unlike certain nations who fling empty words of apologies and some money with an attitude that screams: "ok we gave you some money, we said sorry (not really), so FUCK OFF".

Meanwhile, japs can't even tell the truth about their crimes in ww2, chinese can't even get along with their next door neighbors without having a pissing contest on the international stage, pakis and indians fucking hate each other, and africa's always trying to scapegoat the west (sometimes chinese) for all their problems. Middle east just fucking hates everyone else with their racist antics.

The reason US is drawing so much childish ire from mouthy idiots around the globe is that America just can't seem to make up its mind about what it wants to be. More specifically, what the rest of the world THINKS and EXPECTS it to be: Either a forever generous and benign rich man whose generosity and prosperity they can all try to take advantage of, or cruel and absolutely vicious overlord that displays complete inhuman cruelty they themselves would love to exercise against whatever 'enemy' rubs them the wrong way.

Also, to all idiots in this country who thinks our government is 'corrupt', please check yourself and experience what that really means outside of US.

I believe that majority of actions taken by US, including fights against 'indians' (which btw so much anti-american shits seem to care so much about even though they never gave a shit before hahaha), bombing of hiroshima and nagasaki, vietnam, and iraq/afghanistan war, are much more justifiable than any other actions taken by nations around the globe from 18th century on.

However, it seems that biased idiocy against US is the 'in' thing to do. I suppose easier thing to do than admiring or respecting someone who is powerful and influential is trying to denigrate them down to their level.

Compared to other nations, I don't think US is really all that 'bad' - except maybe we should learn to be more vicious towards those who think having a mouth means you can bitch anytime to anyone you want.

Also, please don't try to bring up cheap and useless tangents with buzz words like 'genocide' and 'imperialism', or my favorite, 'empire'. Empires don't negotiate or give quarters. Most of these idiotic nonsense is often spouted by people who are too pampered to understand those concepts and CERTAINLY have never experienced them from the point of view of those who are truly oppressed under such system.

TLDR: Go fuck yourself. Fix your own damn country first so they don't fly planes into buildings and let blind lawyer escape from your 'cops' to a foreign embassy in the middle of your fucking capital.

 

[j68r]

How many countries are free to go around the world, invade and occupy whoever they choose and carry out extra judicial killings on a whim, often in error and often without any recourse whatsoever.

Be warned, what goes around comes around and right now the USA's tab on that score is huge.

[crumbs]

I only beat my wife once a week.  That guy over there beats his every day!  My wife should thank her lucky stars that she is not with that other guy and shouldn't complain.

Regarding what your wife should do about your beatings:
I need to know more about your wife and yourself to offer sound advice.
If your wife is capable enough, i would suggest that she leaves you.  If, for any reason, that is not an option, i would need to know more about you.  Are you likely to get angry at her for complaining, and beat her more often?  If so, i would advise her against complaining unless she enjoys being beaten.

[hawkeye]

I only beat my wife once a week.  That guy over there beats his every day!  My wife should thank her lucky stars that she is not with that other guy and shouldn't complain.

Regarding what your wife should do about your beatings:
I need to know more about your wife and yourself to offer sound advice.
If your wife is capable enough, i would suggest that she leaves you.  If, for any reason, that is not an option, i would need to know more about you.  Are you likely to get angry at her for complaining, and beat her more often?  If so, i would advise her against complaining unless she enjoys being beaten.

Thanks for proving my point.  I don't have a wife that I beat btw, just in case it wasn't obvious to you.

[crumbs]

I only beat my wife once a week.  That guy over there beats his every day!  My wife should thank her lucky stars that she is not with that other guy and shouldn't complain.

Regarding what your wife should do about your beatings:
I need to know more about your wife and yourself to offer sound advice.
If your wife is capable enough, i would suggest that she leaves you.  If, for any reason, that is not an option, i would need to know more about you.  Are you likely to get angry at her for complaining, and beat her more often?  If so, i would advise her against complaining unless she enjoys being beaten.

Thanks for proving my point.  I don't have a wife that I beat btw, just in case it wasn't obvious to you.

What was your point?

[NewLiberty]

I love it when anti-American fools can't even get off their own asses to fix their country so shit doesn't spill over their borders. Hence, requiring whatever international body or more often, US, to come in and remove the problem.

Case in point: China can't even talk to other asian nations without getting into a bitchfest about some piece rock in the south pacific.

US government is relatively benign compared to what other nations would be doing if they held such power and influence in their hands. Honestly speaking, no other nation comes even close in terms of how much fucking 'apologies' and 'reparations' that US government fully acknowledged and handed out. Even then, we don't believe that 'absolves' any mistakes made in the past - unlike certain nations who fling empty words of apologies and some money with an attitude that screams: "ok we gave you some money, we said sorry (not really), so FUCK OFF".

Meanwhile, japs can't even tell the truth about their crimes in ww2, chinese can't even get along with their next door neighbors without having a pissing contest on the international stage, pakis and indians fucking hate each other, and africa's always trying to scapegoat the west (sometimes chinese) for all their problems. Middle east just fucking hates everyone else with their racist antics.

The reason US is drawing so much childish ire from mouthy idiots around the globe is that America just can't seem to make up its mind about what it wants to be. More specifically, what the rest of the world THINKS and EXPECTS it to be: Either a forever generous and benign rich man whose generosity and prosperity they can all try to take advantage of, or cruel and absolutely vicious overlord that displays complete inhuman cruelty they themselves would love to exercise against whatever 'enemy' rubs them the wrong way.

Also, to all idiots in this country who thinks our government is 'corrupt', please check yourself and experience what that really means outside of US.

I believe that majority of actions taken by US, including fights against 'indians' (which btw so much anti-american shits seem to care so much about even though they never gave a shit before hahaha), bombing of hiroshima and nagasaki, vietnam, and iraq/afghanistan war, are much more justifiable than any other actions taken by nations around the globe from 18th century on.

However, it seems that biased idiocy against US is the 'in' thing to do. I suppose easier thing to do than admiring or respecting someone who is powerful and influential is trying to denigrate them down to their level.

Compared to other nations, I don't think US is really all that 'bad' - except maybe we should learn to be more vicious towards those who think having a mouth means you can bitch anytime to anyone you want.

Also, please don't try to bring up cheap and useless tangents with buzz words like 'genocide' and 'imperialism', or my favorite, 'empire'. Empires don't negotiate or give quarters. Most of these idiotic nonsense is often spouted by people who are too pampered to understand those concepts and CERTAINLY have never experienced them from the point of view of those who are truly oppressed under such system.

TLDR: Go fuck yourself. Fix your own damn country first so they don't fly planes into buildings and let blind lawyer escape from your 'cops' to a foreign embassy in the middle of your fucking capital.

I love Americans.
I also love the people of every other geography.

The freedom to be self-critical is a powerful engine of self improvement and inoculation against group-think. 

Power corrupts, to the extent that the checks and balances in the US system keep that from being worse than it is, we can claim a modicum of success, but the failures are woeful and plentiful.  If you want to get rich in America, make a career out of anti-corruption prosecution, whereas in many places that is a good way to get dead.

[PrintMule]

US government is relatively benign compared to what other nations would be doing if they held such power and influence in their hands. Honestly speaking, no other nation comes even close in terms of how much fucking 'apologies' and 'reparations' that US government fully acknowledged and handed out. Even then, we don't believe that 'absolves' any mistakes made in the past - unlike certain nations who fling empty words of apologies and some money with an attitude that screams: "ok we gave you some money, we said sorry (not really), so FUCK OFF".

we said sorry (not really) = Iran Air Flight 655 (States agreed to pay US$61.8 million, an average of $213,103.45 per passenger, in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims. However, the United States has never admitted responsibility, nor apologized to Iran. The payment of compensation was explicitly characterized by the US as being on an ex gratia basis, and the U.S. denied having any responsibility or liability for what happened.)

[Honeypot]

US government is relatively benign compared to what other nations would be doing if they held such power and influence in their hands. Honestly speaking, no other nation comes even close in terms of how much fucking 'apologies' and 'reparations' that US government fully acknowledged and handed out. Even then, we don't believe that 'absolves' any mistakes made in the past - unlike certain nations who fling empty words of apologies and some money with an attitude that screams: "ok we gave you some money, we said sorry (not really), so FUCK OFF".

we said sorry (not really) = Iran Air Flight 655 (States agreed to pay US$61.8 million, an average of $213,103.45 per passenger, in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims. However, the United States has never admitted responsibility, nor apologized to Iran. The payment of compensation was explicitly characterized by the US as being on an ex gratia basis, and the U.S. denied having any responsibility or liability for what happened.)

What goes around comes around. It's a shame that Iranian civillians had to pay the price for iranian regime's racist and fucking childish tantrums they throw around. However, vast majority of Iranians love the idea of sticking it to the foreigners in such a way - motivated by remnants of 'pride' about persia or some such farfetched nonsense they managed to connect themselves to in order to gain some sense of identity and motivation called ethno nationalism. This is one of the primary reason why the world seems to detest Iran - no one likes bitch made punks with attitude problems and a runny mouth.

While US actions were not entirely benign with Iran, iranians are fooling themselves if they thought their 'democratically' elected government before Shah would have eventually turned out any better then Shah itself. At the very least, Iran would be suffering under significant Soviet/Russian pressure and would have been eventually made to decide between a security-laden communist state and eventual defacto soviet suzerainty. Even before that, all the oil and gas resources would have been siphoned off to the communist bloc in order for the 'people's government' in Iran to maintain their power base and secure arms and technological assistance from soviet union - the most important thing that went wrong is iranian people's choice to replace a secular tyrannical regime for an even worse wolf in sheep's clothing that had woven ethnic, religious, and racist motivations into a one nice little package called iranian islamic revolution.

What you may not understand is that Iran effectively declared war on US and has been waging a war of covert bombings and subterfuge all over the middle east against US and its allies. Fueled by short-sighted nationalism and ethnic racism, iranians have blindly lashed out at what they believed was a convenient scapegoat, US, while having little to no knowledge about the geopolitical situations. For a supposed descendants of an 'empire', they sure behave in a very narrow minded and short sighted way.

More than ten times 235 people died from Iranian-sponsored armed militias that were specifically engineered and operated by top figures in Iranian government during 1980s alone. That's not even counting the number of civillians in other countries such as argentina killed by Iranian muslim racist regime spewing childish ignorance left and right against the world.

More importantly, this is a country that advocates genocide and extermination of certain group of people solely for who they are. Save the usual deflective excuses. A parrot can attempt to deny, bitch and moan and try to play word/semantic games to convince themselves they are not racist fuckers with an attitude problem. What Iran is doing is purely racial, ethnic, and cultural warfare not only against its neighbors, but against the world.

For the blood spilled in the middle east and beyond based on actions purely out of spite and small-minded delusions of ethnic/religious grandeur, iranian civillians paid only a fraction of the blood price for their ignorance. The only regretful fact is that some uninvolved and innocent civillians on those flights were killed alongside those who were guilty.

Iran does not have the right to be given an apology at this point, due to the nature of their actions - perhaps in the future, when Iranians are ready to face the facts of their ignorance and crime against their neighbors, US would express regret and mutual apologies for event that led up to 655. However, it is iran that set itself up to be punished severely for their ignorance. US doesn't have 'imperialist' designs on the middle east or muslims. The chief interest of US national policy is to secure stability and peace in the region in a way that does not disrupt the global stability in terms of energy and natural resources.

However, like iran, many seek to blame outsiders for their own failings as a culture and people. They constantly lash out at others, while denying and hiding their bitch acts behind self-serving lies that illicit justified hatred and killing of their people. They have been cornered into a position by the virtue of their own failures and retarded lies, yet seek to blame everyone else for their problems.

Borders of those US fight against are bloody and without any strand of possibly justification other than ethnic and racial ignorance spouted by the same fools who claim to be victims of 'imperialism'.

Hypocrisy and short sighted adolescent 'ethnic pride' of Iran must be addressed first. US does not offer apologies to those who does not even deserve to be treated as human beings by the virtue of their own miserable hypocrisy and purposeful failures.

[PrintMule]

Hypocrisy and short sighted adolescent 'ethnic pride' of Iran must be addressed first. US does not offer apologies to those who does not even deserve to be treated as human beings by the virtue of their own miserable hypocrisy and purposeful failures.

USA support of UAE, there's your hypocrisy.

My biggest beef wih USA is it's support of Israel. It's support of UAE. It's presence in Japan (and totally unjustified nuking of Japan). And supporting heroin production in Afghanistan, instead of burning those poppy seeds down.

[Honeypot]

Hypocrisy and short sighted adolescent 'ethnic pride' of Iran must be addressed first. US does not offer apologies to those who does not even deserve to be treated as human beings by the virtue of their own miserable hypocrisy and purposeful failures.

USA support of UAE, there's your hypocrisy.

My biggest beef wih USA is it's support of Israel. It's support of UAE. It's presence in Japan (and totally unjustified nuking of Japan). And supporting heroin production in Afghanistan, instead of burning those poppy seeds down.

You got no place having a 'beef' with Israel, fool. Little racist cunts from around the world are so easily manipulated by anything that seems to give them a momentary moral high ground, so much so that they actually managed to make an enemy out of people to whom arabs have done wrong far more than any jew has committed crimes against arabs. No one in Israel is calling for genocide of arabs or even 'palestinians'. Why is it that those EVIL jews pay and allow palestinians to work along side jewish citizens of Israel within Israeli borders? I do hear the opposite from muslims. Now, if arabs had even a fraction of excuse that jews had in their claims to Israeli land, they would be squealing at the top of their lungs about 'reclaiming'.

Selective muslim moralizing (i.e. bitch lies) is so obvious to anyone, even to someone such as myself who is not even remotely connected to either side in the conflict.

What of UAE? When have they aggressively invaded a nation to sack and loot their capital? When have they attempted to declare extermination of a race and ethnicity their goal? Cry me a river about 1000 dead in the protests within UAE while the whole of arab and muslim world make a scape goat out of 6.5 million jews many of whom arabs conducted pogroms on in various nations after a little encouragement from the nazis.

As far as japs, I hope you enjoy talking to chinese and koreans, or filipinos about what they think in regards to 'innocence' of those 12 year old children who tried to play at being an imperialist, racist empire who freely used cultural genocide as a tool and slavery of asian women. Or maybe you are too gullible to understand the difference between valid arguments and sentiment-laden not-so-subtle and quite pathetic attempts at twisting truths as japs love to do with their version of 'history'.

Afghan heroin production? What next, are you going to cry and moan about US not doing anything to stop the poppy and heroin production in the Golden Triangle? I thought you hated the idea of US being involved in foreign countries? You sure are selective on topics which you bitch and moan about.

[NewLiberty]

Honeypot.  Is your goal to be "defending" the USA by actively generating hate toward it with vitriolic ranting, racism, generalizations and pretending the people of a region are to be held accountable for the actions of those governments who have power over them as if those people were personally involved in creating the worst parts of the history of the region in which they reside?