Should miners collude to steal funds from wallet confiscated by US government?

[Gordon Bleu]

Let's say you ordered something absolutetly legal, from a webshop, then webshop gets shut down your Money sized because the Webshop also sold Drugs, the FBI stole our Money and they will use cheap Tricks to keep it

you say DPR is bad guy, the Government did way worse they constructed a Case that wouldn't have happened
if the FEDS wasn't involved,

HOW MANY FUCKING GUVERNMENT SHILLS ARE IN THIS THREAD ?

i' am pro Steal Team 6, let's create some havoc

[ArticMine]

Absolutely not. It is not the role of a Bitcoin miner to pass judgement on individual Bitcoin transactions and destroy Bitcoin in the process.
PS: I pledge the hash power under my control (two Avalons) against this insane scheme and ask other miners to do the same.

[Qu1ck$1Lv3r]

Absolutely not. It is not the role of a Bitcoin miner to pass judgement on individual Bitcoin transactions and destroy Bitcoin in the process.
PS: I pledge the hash power under my control (two Avalons) against this insane scheme and ask other miners to do the same.

In my opinion, Bitcoins are a moral judgement. That aside, I agree that the mining network must remain neutral in how it processes transactions.  Interference would only undermine Bitcoin. On the other hand, I personally do not have to accept any coins originating from certain addresses. If other people want to show their displeasure over Silk Road or anything else, they can refuse to accept those coins also. If everyone refuses to accept them, then those coins become worthless to the government but priceless to those who cherish their personal sovereignty.

[Buffer Overflow]

Has it occurred to anybody that maybe FBI is mining, and could process the transaction themselves? Hell, they may even be running a major pool for all we know.

[BTCLuke]

Thank you to all the morons on this thread who are completely economically illiterate and just outed themselves as such... My "Ignore" list has been waiting for you for a long time.

[darkmule]

Let's say you ordered something absolutetly legal, from a webshop, then webshop gets shut down your Money sized because the Webshop also sold Drugs, the FBI stole our Money and they will use cheap Tricks to keep it

you say DPR is bad guy, the Government did way worse they constructed a Case that wouldn't have happened
if the FEDS wasn't involved,

HOW MANY FUCKING GUVERNMENT SHILLS ARE IN THIS THREAD ?

i' am pro Steal Team 6, let's create some havoc

If anyone is a government shill, it is anyone urging people to participate in an illegal criminal conspiracy that cannot possibly end well.  Agents provocateurs, anyone?  Not that it's going to happen, or that anyone here is actually a provateur, since the scheme is so transparently idiotic that nobody in a position to do it (the mining pools) would actually do it.  But anyone taking this seriously, rather than joking around about it, has clearly been consuming too many research chemicals from SR.

[Buffer Overflow]

Let's say you ordered something absolutetly legal, from a webshop, then webshop gets shut down your Money sized because the Webshop also sold Drugs, the FBI stole our Money and they will use cheap Tricks to keep it

you say DPR is bad guy, the Government did way worse they constructed a Case that wouldn't have happened
if the FEDS wasn't involved,

HOW MANY FUCKING GUVERNMENT SHILLS ARE IN THIS THREAD ?

i' am pro Steal Team 6, let's create some havoc

If anyone is a government shill, it is anyone urging people to participate in an illegal criminal conspiracy that cannot possibly end well.  Agents provocateurs, anyone?  Not that it's going to happen, or that anyone here is actually a provateur, since the scheme is so transparently idiotic that nobody in a position to do it (the mining pools) would actually do it.  But anyone taking this seriously, rather than joking around about it, has clearly been consuming too many research chemicals from SR.

+1

The only ones that want the coins stolen is the little junkies that lost their drug money. Yeah, let's undermine the whole integrity of Bitcoin to please the butthurt druggies.

Mods please lock this dumb arse thread.

[Vycid]

You will have aggressed not only against my personal savings by trying to destroy the bitcoin network, but also the savings of every other bitcoiner alive, and ultimately humanity itself since bitcoin is what is going to help mankind survive the coming global turmoil.

So in my mind, conspiracy against the blockchain is literally WORSE than conspiracy to detonate a nuclear weapon.

You guys are batshit.

These are still internet funbux, no matter how "srs bizns" we want to get about it. We are not "there" yet, nothing "depends" on Bitcoin.

If you compare a 51% attack unfavorably to the thermonuclear vaporizing of millions of my fellow humans, you are a sociopath and asshat of the highest magnitude.

[ScatterShot]

I also don't see any evidence that .gov actually has exclusive control of the private key(s) that controls the 27,000 bitcoins. Think about it. Every report about this is consistent with them simply knowing the public address of the 27k coins, nothing more. I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary either in the news or in blockchain activity.

Excuse me if I disagree with you, but I don't think they simply gained access to the wallet where the 26,000 (or 27,000) bitcoins used to seat. That wallet was created on October 2nd, the same day SR was shut down. And it wouldn't be very smart to hold on the bitcoins in that wallet since they don't know who else got the private key for that. Most likely they created a wallet on their own (probably offline) and then moved all the bitcoins from the wallets they could grab from DPR (as shown by the big transactions pointing to that particular address right after its creation). Looking forward to knowing how did they manage to have access to those wallets in the first place and obtaining the private keys.. DPR himself provided them? The Agents found them somewhere, maybe in the form of paper wallets? Keylogger in his laptop?

Thanks for the info, wasn't aware of that detail. So the FBI has at least one guy that knows what he's doing wrt Bitcoin.

[kik1977]

I also don't see any evidence that .gov actually has exclusive control of the private key(s) that controls the 27,000 bitcoins. Think about it. Every report about this is consistent with them simply knowing the public address of the 27k coins, nothing more. I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary either in the news or in blockchain activity.

Excuse me if I disagree with you, but I don't think they simply gained access to the wallet where the 26,000 (or 27,000) bitcoins used to seat. That wallet was created on October 2nd, the same day SR was shut down. And it wouldn't be very smart to hold on the bitcoins in that wallet since they don't know who else got the private key for that. Most likely they created a wallet on their own (probably offline) and then moved all the bitcoins from the wallets they could grab from DPR (as shown by the big transactions pointing to that particular address right after its creation). Looking forward to knowing how did they manage to have access to those wallets in the first place and obtaining the private keys.. DPR himself provided them? The Agents found them somewhere, maybe in the form of paper wallets? Keylogger in his laptop?

Thanks for the info, wasn't aware of that detail. So the FBI has at least one guy that knows what he's doing wrt Bitcoin.

Ahahahaha, you're right, one at least!!!

Moreover, as you can see here (http://blockchain.info/address/1F1tAaz5x1HUXrCNLbtMDqcw6o5GNn4xqX?offset=200&filter=0), money is still flowing to that (probably cold) wallet. I am not referring to the small transactions, made just to send messages to the FBI. There are bigger transactions (253, 10, 15, etc BTC) still going on right now. They could be other BTC discovered by FBI or standing payouts from pools still going to the seized wallets.

[Vycid]

I also don't see any evidence that .gov actually has exclusive control of the private key(s) that controls the 27,000 bitcoins. Think about it. Every report about this is consistent with them simply knowing the public address of the 27k coins, nothing more. I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary either in the news or in blockchain activity.

Excuse me if I disagree with you, but I don't think they simply gained access to the wallet where the 26,000 (or 27,000) bitcoins used to seat. That wallet was created on October 2nd, the same day SR was shut down. And it wouldn't be very smart to hold on the bitcoins in that wallet since they don't know who else got the private key for that. Most likely they created a wallet on their own (probably offline) and then moved all the bitcoins from the wallets they could grab from DPR (as shown by the big transactions pointing to that particular address right after its creation). Looking forward to knowing how did they manage to have access to those wallets in the first place and obtaining the private keys.. DPR himself provided them? The Agents found them somewhere, maybe in the form of paper wallets? Keylogger in his laptop?

Thanks for the info, wasn't aware of that detail. So the FBI has at least one guy that knows what he's doing wrt Bitcoin.

Ahahahaha, you're right, one at least!!!

Moreover, as you can see here (http://blockchain.info/address/1F1tAaz5x1HUXrCNLbtMDqcw6o5GNn4xqX?offset=200&filter=0), money is still flowing to that (probably cold) wallet. I am not referring to the small transactions, made just to send messages to the FBI. There are bigger transactions (253, 10, 15, etc BTC) still going on right now. They could be other BTC discovered by FBI or standing payouts from pools still going to the seized wallets.

How does the community simultaneously say "Bitcoin is easy to learn, everyone should use it!" and then act surprised when an FBI agent attached to a cybercrime unit figures out how to move coins to a new wallet?

[Rassah]

I think the coins should be stolen, but that it should be done using the good'ol method of simply stealing the private keys for that wallet. That may involve some more difficult work of actually hacking FBI's computers to find out where their keys are stored at. Miners and futzing with the blockchain should definitely be left out of it.

You are some kind of nut.  Don't you work for the State of Maryland?  You are advocating hacking federal computers to disrupt a murder-for-hire prosecution.  Legitimate businesses and people should steer clear of you and your Bitcoin101 project (and anything else you are involved with).

You do realize that the abolity to spend, or not having that money in their posession, does not in any way affect their ability to actually prosecute him, right? It's not like they have to bring big stacks of cash into the court room to show it as evidence. They can just point to the public blockchain, and show all the transactions leading in and out of the address in question. Just because they themselves can't spend the money doesn't matter.

That being said, I'd much rather have that money be spent by someone else other than the FBI. Both because, as you said, I work in government, and I understand that it will be either wasted, or worse, used for bad things, AND because I don't believe what DPR was doing with Silk Road was inherently wrong, and thus the FBI effectively stole money that didn't belong to them (it didn't belong to DPR, either, since that money was merchant, customer, and anyone who wanted to use the SR tumbler money).

[cp1]

You're seriously advocating stealing millions of dollars from the FBI?  You realize you don't live inside a movie, right?

[kik1977]

You're seriously advocating stealing millions of dollars from the FBI?  You realize you don't live inside a movie, right?

Ahahahaha, the best (and more meaningful) comment I have see here so far!

[theonewhowaskazu]

You're seriously advocating stealing millions of dollars from the FBI?  You realize you don't live inside a movie, right?

You do realize it could quite conceivably be done, right?

We shouldn't do it, because it would make Bitcoin look bad, but the way the FBI has literally put all their money in a single address like noobs, it could be quite easily done with the cooperation of major mining pools. Heck, even just the top 2 could probably at the very least make it take an extraordinarly long time to confirm.

[darkmule]

You're seriously advocating stealing millions of dollars from the FBI?  You realize you don't live inside a movie, right?

You do realize it could quite conceivably be done, right?

Definitely.  I also hear it's possible to contract to hire someone to murder someone else.

How well does this kind of thing usually turn out when someone tries it in reality, though?

[DanielBTC]

Gov owning BTCs is the worst thing we can imagine.
and block Gov "seized" BTCs using the miners is even worse. (for the image of bitcoin etc)

But we refuse accepting BTC from these address or stop using the exchanges who accept BTC from them in a white/clean protest, is it possible?

[tysat]

Gov owning BTCs is the worst thing we can imagine.
and block Gov "seized" BTCs using the miners is even worse. (for the image of bitcoin etc)

But we refuse accepting BTC from these address or stop using the exchanges who accept BTC from them in a white/clean protest, is it possible?

Stopping BTC from being spent sets an awful precedent.  Who decides if we can spend BTC in that situation?  This would be regulation on top of Bitcoin, something I thought most people here didn't want.

[Melbustus]

Gov owning BTCs is the worst thing we can imagine.
and block Gov "seized" BTCs using the miners is even worse. (for the image of bitcoin etc)

But we refuse accepting BTC from these address or stop using the exchanges who accept BTC from them in a white/clean protest, is it possible?

Stopping BTC from being spent sets an awful precedent.  Who decides if we can spend BTC in that situation?  This would be regulation on top of Bitcoin, something I thought most people here didn't want.

Yeah, white/black lists of coins are a terrible idea. This has come up quite a bit before. The consensus around here is that would drastically reduce the fungibility (one "coin" is the same/same-value as another) of coins which is a core property of an ideal money. Without it, bitcoin loses a key aspect of what makes it viable as a long-term money well-suited to the needs of global electronic exchange.

[kik1977]

I think the coins should be stolen, but that it should be done using the good'ol method of simply stealing the private keys for that wallet. That may involve some more difficult work of actually hacking FBI's computers to find out where their keys are stored at. Miners and futzing with the blockchain should definitely be left out of it.

You are some kind of nut.  Don't you work for the State of Maryland?  You are advocating hacking federal computers to disrupt a murder-for-hire prosecution.  Legitimate businesses and people should steer clear of you and your Bitcoin101 project (and anything else you are involved with).

You do realize that the abolity to spend, or not having that money in their posession, does not in any way affect their ability to actually prosecute him, right? It's not like they have to bring big stacks of cash into the court room to show it as evidence. They can just point to the public blockchain, and show all the transactions leading in and out of the address in question. Just because they themselves can't spend the money doesn't matter.

That being said, I'd much rather have that money be spent by someone else other than the FBI. Both because, as you said, I work in government, and I understand that it will be either wasted, or worse, used for bad things, AND because I don't believe what DPR was doing with Silk Road was inherently wrong, and thus the FBI effectively stole money that didn't belong to them (it didn't belong to DPR, either, since that money was merchant, customer, and anyone who wanted to use the SR tumbler money).

Do you realize you are talking about tampering with evidence in a murder for hire trial?  Do you realize that Silk Road was selling things that could easily kill someone if they used it wrong?  Do you realize he is accused of ordering the torture and murder of a Father of 3?  Do you realize you will end up in jail if you hack into a federal computer to steal funds that belong to others and may have to be returned?  Do you realize you will probably be fired from your State of MD job once they find out you are advocating breaking into FBI computers to tamper with evidence in a serious prosecution? 

If you ever see me at any Bitcoin event stay at least 100 feet from me at all times.

Don't worry, those aren't even the worst comments I've seen here recently.. they're quite mild I'd say!