Bitcoin and the little guy

[Epicblood]

I have been gone for awhile now, and it seems that, unless you are willing to invest a few grand, you shouldn't mine anymore.
I personally have an ML605 that is hashing away (not very effectively) but it isn't making me much BTCBTC

So I was wondering, what can the little guy do?
I was looking around, and the little USB miners seemed pretty cool, but it also seems the ROI is pretty low.

Also, does anyone have a scrypt miner that works with the ML605?

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[j68r]

I was looking around, and the little USB miners seemed pretty cool, but it also seems the ROI is pretty low.

None existent are the words you're looking for in relation to ROI. Mining has become the victim of its own success and although btc is nothing without it right now that won't always be the case. The solution, and far better for bitcoins future beyond mining, which is a no return endeavour, is to figure out some way to provide goods and services in exchange for them. Or just buy some btc if you just want to hold them.

[yayayo]

Why not sell some goods and services for bitcoin?

As time passes mining will become more and more competitive and only bigger operations with low energy costs or dual-use (heating services) will remain profitable.

Personally I think the free trade environment bitcoin has opened to the world is more interesting than the mining part. I think doing trade in bitcoin is what everyone can and should do.


ya.ya.yo!

[Epicblood]

I was looking around, and the little USB miners seemed pretty cool, but it also seems the ROI is pretty low.

None existent are the words you're looking for in relation to ROI. Mining has become the victim of its own success and although btc is nothing without it right now that won't always be the case. The solution, and far better for bitcoins future beyond mining, which is a no return endeavour, is to figure out some way to provide goods and services in exchange for them. Or just buy some btc if you just want to hold them.

I will probably end up just buying BTC as you said, but I really want to do something that can earn me some BTC
I'll also probably be waiting until something happens that causes the price to drop (like if the government ever decides to sell all that confiscated BTC)

[j68r]

Until people can start to get paid for work done and pay their household bills and taxes in btc it's only ever going to be a bit of a novelty, that said every journey starts with a single step and the road travelled has already covered some distance.

I think the biggest problem by far is that bitcoin success to date has been motivated in the main by people simply seeking a fiat profit. In other words betting against bitcoin in the long run. Holding them isn't helping them. The only people who will ever deliver that success are those that use btc as currency by providing real world goods and services. Let's face it btc is a very long way from securing any success at all as anything other than a novelty and money pit right now.

** I'd caution against pouring any more than a token amount into them at this stage as any sort of investment.

[kuusj98]

If you started mining with ~10 HD5870's in 2011 and kept doing just that and you kept most of the BTC you are perfectly fine to spend your free money on these 60% chance scams.
But for the avarage joe like us we just can't spend 10K on something we don't even know if it wil ever come...

[Epicblood]

If you started mining with ~10 HD5870's in 2011 and kept doing just that and you kept most of the BTC you are perfectly fine to spend your free money on these 60% chance scams.
But for the avarage joe like us we just can't spend 10K on something we don't even know if it wil ever come...

Yea this is basically how I feel. I mined with just a GPU back in the day and after a few weeks finally got 1 BTC, then I sold it when the price skyrocketed to 270 xD

Now I really just want some BTC for the vanity and to play some of those betting games, but don't really want to spend too much money on it as in a few months whatever hardware I buy will be outdated and close to useless

[fattypig]

I have been gone for awhile now, and it seems that, unless you are willing to invest a few grand, you shouldn't mine anymore.
I personally have an ML605 that is hashing away (not very effectively) but it isn't making me much BTCBTC

So I was wondering, what can the little guy do?
I was looking around, and the little USB miners seemed pretty cool, but it also seems the ROI is pretty low.

Also, does anyone have a scrypt miner that works with the ML605?

Well, first you don't need a to invest a few grand, you can always buy a few GH/S from cex.io and securities. I agree that ROI is pretty low and might also be in negative. So buy BTC and keep

[sheebang]

If you started mining with ~10 HD5870's in 2011 and kept doing just that and you kept most of the BTC you are perfectly fine to spend your free money on these 60% chance scams.
But for the avarage joe like us we just can't spend 10K on something we don't even know if it wil ever come...

Yea this is basically how I feel. I mined with just a GPU back in the day and after a few weeks finally got 1 BTC, then I sold it when the price skyrocketed to 270 xD

Now I really just want some BTC for the vanity and to play some of those betting games, but don't really want to spend too much money on it as in a few months whatever hardware I buy will be outdated and close to useless

I think it depends on how you look at things. If you want to get bitcoins in an anonymous way you have to mine them. If you do mine in a proper way, and you mine yourself, nobody may ever be able to track you back.

I am using a number of bitcoins for save transactions while one of my kids is abroad. Key advantage is, there are no bank fees (1-3%), there are limited trading fees etc.

People here in the Forum tend to compare the bitcoin price to actual € or $ or Rubels. I think this attitude is wrong. A btc is a btc and all you produced is a certain digit. btc is not subject to inflation. If you mine it you may currently pay 200 € per btc, so it is cheaper to buy them. Does not matter too much if the price jumps to 1.000 € per btc. I wouldn't sell for less, if at all. The price of € 100 may be an indication of miners cashing out though, having produced cheaper. Actually given current felt inflation rates eg in the EU (3,5% to 4,5%) it is no question how much a btc will be in some years. So given some rise also by extended use in some applications, given a reasonable rate of Inflation a bitcoin may be a good Investment and one that cannot be easily taxed, especially if you are average Joe. (Here you may earn a couple of btc free of taxes.)

In the long run btc will only work if the miners make profit and if there are the Joes. So mining is an Option for you and me, but maybe not right now or not by directly cashing out. I am experimenting and being patient. The ASICS can go to lets say 14nm, but somewhere below there may a Limit. I can wait for 14nm USB block eruptor (3,3 GH/s, 1 Watt) buy some of these 2014 /  2015 and and see profit coming in. Bigger guys will have to pay taxes (25-42%) so this is there disadvantage. Havent heard yet that btc are accepted in Monaco,  Bermudas  or in Switzerland.

[j68r]

If you started mining with ~10 HD5870's in 2011 and kept doing just that and you kept most of the BTC you are perfectly fine to spend your free money on these 60% chance scams.
But for the avarage joe like us we just can't spend 10K on something we don't even know if it wil ever come...

Yea this is basically how I feel. I mined with just a GPU back in the day and after a few weeks finally got 1 BTC, then I sold it when the price skyrocketed to 270 xD

Now I really just want some BTC for the vanity and to play some of those betting games, but don't really want to spend too much money on it as in a few months whatever hardware I buy will be outdated and close to useless

...

In the long run btc will only work if the miners make profit and if there are the Joes. So mining is an Option for you and me, but maybe not right now or not by directly cashing out. I am experimenting and being patient. The ASICS can go to lets say 14nm, but somewhere below there may a Limit. I can wait for 14nm USB block eruptor (3,3 GH/s, 1 Watt) buy some of these 2014 /  2015 and and see profit coming in. Bigger guys will have to pay taxes (25-42%) so this is there disadvantage. Havent heard yet that btc are accepted in Monaco,  Bermudas  or in Switzerland.

The only thing that will make bitcoin work is if people start to use it, hoarding just makes it a circle jerk. I'm not sure you understand the mining process, the better hardware is an irrelevance (unless you somehow have exclusive access). What matters is how many btc are available and what difficulty is being generated by everyone else doing exactly the same thing as you are. All this talk of "profit" just sounds wrong headed to me.

[sheebang]

The only thing that will make bitcoin work is if people start to use it, hoarding just makes it a circle jerk. I'm not sure you understand the mining process, the better hardware is an irrelevance (unless you somehow have exclusive access). What matters is how many btc are available and what difficulty is being generated by everyone else doing exactly the same thing as you are. All this talk of "profit" just sounds wrong headed to me.
[/quote]

I fully agree but I do not see any difference to my point. I am not planning to hoard my bitcoins I am hoarding the ones I mined. There is a factor of 1.000 (europ.) or 1,000 (amer.) between these two things, i.e. I have used 1.000 times more bitcoins than what I have mined. In my everyday use of the bitcoin the actual exchange ratio of the bitcoin is not really important. If I transfer $ or € from A to B I only have to have a reasonable stable exchange rate for the time of use. I would be glad if other miners could say the same. Provided the usage factor mining is a tribute to the system not more.

Please do not get me wrong, the tech quote was made to clearify that I also want to be efficient in mining, what currently may be true only for large scale operations and hopefully becomes true for those who are willing to support the system.