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Author Topic: Dwolla growth email - success and relation to Bitcoin?  (Read 5843 times)
evoorhees (OP)
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July 21, 2011, 04:24:09 PM
 #1

Received an email today from Dwolla, with them announcing they've passed $1m in daily transactions. They've got a nice infographic chart showing their growth since December. Now, of course, it is strikingly similar to the growth of interest in Bitcoin (starts jumping fast in May, right as Bitcoin started getting traction).

However, they're not mentioning Bitcoin AT ALL in either their email or graphic. It's understandable of course, but I found it amusing.  Am I wrong in speculating that a significant part of their growth is due directly to Bitcoin? My guess is that they have a love/hate relationship with Bitcoin, as it's bringing them massive business, but is also likely to make them obsolete before they ever truly succeed.

Thoughts?



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July 21, 2011, 04:28:17 PM
 #2

Yep. It's from bitcoin.

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July 21, 2011, 04:33:51 PM
 #3

Never even heard of "dwolla" before I got into Bitcoin  Roll Eyes. So that bump is an obvious bump related to Bitcoin...
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July 21, 2011, 06:17:07 PM
 #4

yep it's pretty obvious

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July 21, 2011, 06:43:54 PM
 #5

I never heard about dwolla too before bitcoins. So it can be an influence of their daily transactions.

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July 21, 2011, 06:48:38 PM
 #6

It must be a very difficult issue for them. Bitcoin will replace the value proposition they offer - Dwolla is made redundant by Bitcoin's success. It's like they're helping to foster a child that will grow up to kill them! Strange relationship.
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July 21, 2011, 06:53:48 PM
 #7

Yeah, if not for being the cheapest option to purchase BTC I would have never used Dwolla.
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July 21, 2011, 07:19:38 PM
 #8

I would have never used dwolla if it were not related to bitcoin. Hell, I don't even have a facebook account.
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July 21, 2011, 09:12:37 PM
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It must be a very difficult issue for them. Bitcoin will replace the value proposition they offer - Dwolla is made redundant by Bitcoin's success. It's like they're helping to foster a child that will grow up to kill them! Strange relationship.

I expect that Dwolla would be vastly more palatable to governments due to (what I am supposing without specific knowledge is) it's adherence to 'know-your-customer' procedures and non-P2P architecture.  I think it's safe to bet that if any 'legitimate' company operating in the US 'knows-its-customers', so to do a lot of government agencies, their friends, and their contractors.

So, I would suppose that governments would do what they can to foster Dwolla and it's cousins and deter Bitcoin (and it's possible cousins.)  I'm hopeful that Bitcoin will eventually strangle or starve out those in the other camp at an opportune time...at least I am currently and hope that nothing changes my mindset.  How this plays out will be very interesting.

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July 21, 2011, 09:37:23 PM
 #10

Received an email today from Dwolla, with them announcing they've passed $1m in daily transactions. They've got a nice infographic chart showing their growth since December. Now, of course, it is strikingly similar to the growth of interest in Bitcoin (starts jumping fast in May, right as Bitcoin started getting traction).

However, they're not mentioning Bitcoin AT ALL in either their email or graphic. It's understandable of course, but I found it amusing.  Am I wrong in speculating that a significant part of their growth is due directly to Bitcoin? My guess is that they have a love/hate relationship with Bitcoin, as it's bringing them massive business, but is also likely to make them obsolete before they ever truly succeed.

Thoughts?


That's why it's funny when people freak out over BTC prices. There are a ton of people buying and using bitcoins. These people aren't trying to make money off BTC, they aren't mining, they aren't "investing", they're using it for what it is, a currency. BTC has a strong future because of the people using it as a currency, not because of the miners, traders, investors. Those people are trying to make money off BTC. As long as people use it to exchange goods and services, which clearly it looks like they are, BTC is golden.

The price of BTC doesn't matter. $5 or $20 it really has no effect. People sell based on usd/euro etc... No one locks in prices at a set BTC. If you sell a $20 item for 1 BTC or 4 BTC it really doesn't change anything. The person buys the bitcoins, sends them, the seller cashes them out. At $5 and at $20 it's the same process. It's always been discussed that 50-80% of miners leaving wouldn't really change a thing. Day traders, investors, people playing the exchanges don't matter. All those people could fuck off right now and people would still be buying BTC, using BTC, and sellers selling the BTC.

Which is why there's no collapse. The people powering BTC, the people using BTC, don't give two shits about how much it's currently worth on the exchanges. There's APIs now that auto convert USD to current market value BTC. Does the API, buying, seller really care if it's $5 or $20? The API just converts it to the USD value and sells the item.

If anything BTC hitting $5 would get rid of the short term for profit miners who are drama queens every time the price fluctuates because they're in a panic to get their money back from their investment. It also gets rid of the people treating BTC like gold bullion.

BTC was never created to be a collectible. It's a virtual currency. Letting people can exchange goods and services. So Jimbo in Poland doesn't need a bank, visa, mastercard, or paypal to sell his homemade bellybutton lint sculptures. He can accept BTC from every corner of the planet. People seem to think that having people profit off of the investing, trading, mining is the core of BTC. It's not. People using BTC as a currency is the core of BTC, will always be the core of BTC, and those people don't give two shits what the current market value is.

They login, buy btc, spend them, get their shit. Whether it's $5 or $50 doesn't change anything. If all the people holding BTC like it's gold bullion cashed out, the people who are using the currency would still be using it the next day, the next week, the next month.



 
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July 21, 2011, 11:29:04 PM
 #11

It's reasonable to assume that a substantial portion of that $1M/day is going into Bitcoin exchange accounts. This is an indication that their are more potential buyers to keep the price from dropping substantially and possibly drive the price up. 

I've funneled thousands through Dwolla and the only reason I've ever used it was to buy Bitcoin.

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July 21, 2011, 11:32:20 PM
 #12

with out bitcoin Dwolla is Gonewolla I do believe!


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July 21, 2011, 11:48:10 PM
 #13

Well we know from hacking history that mtgox is around 60,000 accounts. So assuming half of those people used dwolla instead of liberty reserve then thats about $300 a person per week. That sounds like a fairly reasonable assumption. Only mtgox really knows how much people deposit and withdraw per week i guess, but those numbers are logical.



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July 21, 2011, 11:56:06 PM
 #14

We got in June a total of $6,824,168.53 of funds moving around (16640 transactions in both deposits and withdraws) over Dwolla, equivalent of $227,472.28 per day, or $1,592,305.99 per week. Should be noted that the site was closed on June 20th, so in reality amount per day/week is higher.
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July 22, 2011, 12:42:35 AM
 #15

On their chart, Dwolla is claiming a million per week in June and a million per day in July. 

But the rally to $30 was in June, so either Dwolla has a substantial non-BTC customer base, or a lot of USD has moved to MtGox this month Grin

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July 22, 2011, 12:59:00 AM
 #16

We got in June a total of $6,824,168.53 of funds moving around (16640 transactions), equivalent of $227,472.28 per day, or $1,592,305.99 per week. Should be noted that the site was closed on June 20th, so in reality amount per day/week is higher.

$6.8 million from Dwolla or from everywhere?

How much money is entering mtGox from Dwolla?

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July 22, 2011, 01:13:40 AM
 #17


The price of BTC doesn't matter. $5 or $20 it really has no effect. People sell based on usd/euro etc... No one locks in prices at a set BTC. If you sell a $20 item for 1 BTC or 4 BTC it really doesn't change anything. The person buys the bitcoins, sends them, the seller cashes them out. At $5 and at $20 it's the same process. It's always been discussed that 50-80% of miners leaving wouldn't really change a thing. Day traders, investors, people playing the exchanges don't matter. All those people could fuck off right now and people would still be buying BTC, using BTC, and sellers selling the BTC.

Which is why there's no collapse. The people powering BTC, the people using BTC, don't give two shits about how much it's currently worth on the exchanges. There's APIs now that auto convert USD to current market value BTC. Does the API, buying, seller really care if it's $5 or $20? The API just converts it to the USD value and sells the item.

If anything BTC hitting $5 would get rid of the short term for profit miners who are drama queens every time the price fluctuates because they're in a panic to get their money back from their investment. It also gets rid of the people treating BTC like gold bullion.

BTC was never created to be a collectible. It's a virtual currency. Letting people can exchange goods and services. So Jimbo in Poland doesn't need a bank, visa, mastercard, or paypal to sell his homemade bellybutton lint sculptures. He can accept BTC from every corner of the planet. People seem to think that having people profit off of the investing, trading, mining is the core of BTC. It's not. People using BTC as a currency is the core of BTC, will always be the core of BTC, and those people don't give two shits what the current market value is.

They login, buy btc, spend them, get their shit. Whether it's $5 or $50 doesn't change anything. If all the people holding BTC like it's gold bullion cashed out, the people who are using the currency would still be using it the next day, the next week, the next month.


It's true that the price of BTC is irrelevant for trades where it's converted seamlessly at either end.. but in practice there is a fair overhead in both fees and time for conversion. (I'm sure it varies from country to country - but for me it's a couple of days + 5% or so)

Once there are significant number of merchants accepting BTC, it seems to me that ironically, the market value of BTC could go up if governments start to make difficulties for the exchange points.   The smoother the flow in and out of BTC - the less need to hold a fat wallet.










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July 22, 2011, 01:18:20 AM
 #18

$6.8 million from Dwolla or from everywhere?

removing the stuff in parenthesis:

We got in June a total of $6,824,168.53 of funds moving around over Dwolla

As far as how much was for incoming (deposits) versus outgoing (withdrawals) I don't know.

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evoorhees (OP)
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July 22, 2011, 01:53:56 AM
 #19

We got in June a total of $6,824,168.53 of funds moving around (16640 transactions in both deposits and withdraws) over Dwolla, equivalent of $227,472.28 per day

So if Dwolla in July is reaching $1m/day figures, then back in June according to their own chart it was, like, 1/3 of that... or roughly $200-$400k per day in June.

MagicalTux says that in June they were getting $227k per day on average.

In other words, the MAJORITY of Dwolla's business is directly related to Bitcoin, at least in June.

This is pretty fascinating actually! I wonder if they ever talk about it in the office... or if it's kinda a touchy subject that nobody wants to bring up  Wink

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July 22, 2011, 02:03:14 AM
 #20

what kind of a business thinks its majority income is a touchy subject?
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