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Author Topic: How on earth did I incur such high transaction fees?  (Read 134 times)
tUnes3
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March 07, 2018, 04:11:40 PM
 #1

I am relatively new to bitcoins and only used Electrum wallet at most twice.

I sent 0.0004 BTC, Size: 325 bytes but the fee that I paid was 0.00143440 BTC (441 sat/byte). Can someone is more knowledgeable than me explain how it happened and what steps I could have taken to avoid paying such high transaction fees?

In Electrum, under Preferences > Fees,

Fee estimation: Static
Edit fees manually (box was ticked)
Use Replace-By-Fee (box was ticked)

Under Preferences > Transactions,

Use change addresses (box was ticked)
Use multiple change addresses (box was ticked)

Under Network > Proxy

Use Tor proxy at port 9150 (box was ticked)
Use Proxy (box was ticked)

SOCKS5   127.0.0.1   9150

Yes, I sent my payment via Tor.
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March 07, 2018, 04:15:54 PM
 #2

How many transactions made up that 0.0004 BTC?  The fees you pay depend on how many inputs go into the transaction, not how many BTC you're moving.

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March 07, 2018, 04:39:40 PM
 #3

I am relatively new to bitcoins and only used Electrum wallet at most twice.

I sent 0.0004 BTC, Size: 325 bytes but the fee that I paid was 0.00143440 BTC (441 sat/byte). Can someone is more knowledgeable than me explain how it happened and what steps I could have taken to avoid paying such high transaction fees?

In Electrum, under Preferences > Fees,

Fee estimation: Static
Edit fees manually (box was ticked)
Use Replace-By-Fee (box was ticked)

Under Preferences > Transactions,

Use change addresses (box was ticked)
Use multiple change addresses (box was ticked)

Under Network > Proxy

Use Tor proxy at port 9150 (box was ticked)
Use Proxy (box was ticked)

SOCKS5   127.0.0.1   9150

Yes, I sent my payment via Tor.

WTF this is high transaction fee you have notified here. Today also I have transferred 0.025 BTC to the exchange wallet but the fees consumes for around 0.000021 BTC for the single transaction.
Since your fees per byte many time higher I think. Few weeks before mempool seems empty and the transaction fees per byte is 8SAT/BYTE.

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March 07, 2018, 05:11:29 PM
 #4

Looks like you use outdated Electrum version which had bad "fee estimate" features. I suggest you to use newest Electrum version which have better "fee estimate" features and more secure.
https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/ also can help you set the fees manually and i recommend you to choose lowest fees in satoshi/byte which can be confirmed within 0 block delay/next block.

Also, whether you use Tor or not isn't factor to determine the fees.

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March 07, 2018, 05:23:57 PM
 #5

Fees are based on the transaction's size and the current mempool condition. If you see here: https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#1,2h, you'll know that there's hardly anything on it so fee's shouldn't be that high.

The problem must have been with electrum's fee estimation. Go to preferences --> Fee Estimation --> Mempool

Or you can also check these guides and enter fees manually

https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#1,2h
https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/

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March 07, 2018, 07:31:50 PM
 #6

Actually... it would seem that you set the option of "Edit fees manually" checked, so you should be able to enter your own fees. I've just checked Electrum and its dynamic fee estimation seems to be pretty OK right now. Says only 12 sats/byte for confirmation within next 2 blocks, which is about right.

You mentioned that it says "Static" fees... so that's probably your problem right there. It probably kept a fee amount from your previous transaction? Just check "dynamic fees" and adjust the fee to your comfortable block time confirmation. Or, keep your current option and enter your own fee. You can always click Preview to check everything looks good.

Download the latest version now... and you'll see that there are only 2 options: Dynamic and Manual.


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March 07, 2018, 09:24:04 PM
 #7

~snip~
You can base fee amounts into this site https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/ which you would able to see the default or average satoshi/byte on current transaction. On settings with electrum just unticked the box which shows Edit fees manually. Just only check the box with Us dynamic fees. It will automatically adjust on current default fees on which network requires and besides you can able to drag or edit on how fast you would like for a single transaction.


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March 07, 2018, 09:24:59 PM
 #8

Actually... it would seem that you set the option of "Edit fees manually" checked, so you should be able to enter your own fees. I've just checked Electrum and its dynamic fee estimation seems to be pretty OK right now. Says only 12 sats/byte for confirmation within next 2 blocks, which is about right.

You mentioned that it says "Static" fees... so that's probably your problem right there. It probably kept a fee amount from your previous transaction? Just check "dynamic fees" and adjust the fee to your comfortable block time confirmation. Or, keep your current option and enter your own fee. You can always click Preview to check everything looks good.

Download the latest version now... and you'll see that there are only 2 options: Dynamic and Manual.



This is largely the most definitive explanation as to what could be the reason for this because even me, I yet to phantom how you would pay fees that is larger than what you intend to send. When the fees was on the high side sometime ago, its was just some high percentage of what is to be sent and not more than it talk less of when the traffic on the network is low and transaction fees are not high at all with reasonable confirmation time. What surprises me is that you should have gone through with such payment without asking because by default you should know its just out of the ordinary to lay such ridiculous high fee as you must be missing something.

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March 08, 2018, 01:26:05 AM
 #9

How many transactions made up that 0.0004 BTC?  The fees you pay depend on how many inputs go into the transaction, not how many BTC you're moving.

1 input and 4 outputs and I was using version 3.0.3, which was the latest stable version at that time.
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March 08, 2018, 01:32:36 AM
 #10

Looks like you use outdated Electrum version which had bad "fee estimate" features. I suggest you to use newest Electrum version which have better "fee estimate" features and more secure.

No, I did not use an outdated version when I carried out said transaction. I was using version 3.0.3 and it was the latest stable version available at that time.

https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/ also can help you set the fees manually and i recommend you to choose lowest fees in satoshi/byte which can be confirmed within 0 block delay/next block.

I opened the web page bitcoinfees.earn.com and am unable to make sense of what is displayed in it. Sorry, I am not technically inclined. Perhaps you can help me. Suppose I wish to send 70 US dollars. What is the maximum fee that I should pay?

Please refer to my original post. What settings should I change to ensure that I do not incur high transaction fees in the future? Some suggested that I choose "Mempool" for "Fee estimation".

Also, whether you use Tor or not isn't factor to determine the fees.

Thanks for your clarification.
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March 08, 2018, 02:03:09 AM
 #11

Fees are based on the transaction's size and the current mempool condition.

I was using version 3.0.3 and it was the latest stable version at that time.

1. In Electrum, is it possible to check the transaction's size before I send the funds over?
2. Version 3.0.3 did not have "Mempool" under "Fee estimation". (I am using 3.1.0 now and it does have "Mempool" under "Fee estimation".)

If you see here: https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#1,2h, you'll know that there's hardly anything on it so fee's shouldn't be that high.

I am not a technical man and thus unable to interpret what is displayed therein.

The problem must have been with electrum's fee estimation. Go to preferences --> Fee Estimation --> Mempool

The latest stable version right now is 3.1.0 and it does have Fee estimation > Mempool. I incurred high transaction fees when I was using 3.0.3, which was the latest stable version at that time.

Or you can also check these guides and enter fees manually

https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#1,2h
https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/

Thanks for the links but I still am unable to make sense of the figures in them. If I wish to send 70 US dollars, what is the estimated minimum satoshi/byte (sat/byte) that I should enter in Electrum without significant delay in having just one confirmation?
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March 08, 2018, 02:19:48 AM
 #12

Thanks for the links but I still am unable to make sense of the figures in them. If I wish to send 70 US dollars, what is the estimated minimum satoshi/byte (sat/byte) that I should enter in Electrum without significant delay in having just one confirmation?

Scroll down.



It's estimation is a bit more expensive then needed though, I find https://coinb.in/#fees much better. Make sure to send all transactions as RBF in case the fee is too low.

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March 08, 2018, 02:49:50 AM
 #13

Download the latest version now... and you'll see that there are only 2 options: Dynamic and Manual.

The latest stable version is 3.1.0 and there are no options called Dynamic and Manual. All I can see is Fee estimation > Static, ETA or Mempool.
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March 08, 2018, 03:07:18 AM
 #14

On settings with electrum just unticked the box which shows Edit fees manually. Just only check the box with Us dynamic fees. It will automatically adjust on current default fees on which network requires and

Sorry, I am lost here. Which version of Electrum are you referring to? Version 3.1.0 does not have "Edit fees manually" or "Use dynamic fees".

besides you can able to drag or edit on how fast you would like for a single transaction.

Where in Electrum 3.1.0 can I drag or edit on how fast I wish to have for a single transaction?
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March 08, 2018, 03:36:23 AM
 #15

Thanks for taking the time to provide a screenshot of the web page.

It's estimation is a bit more expensive then needed though, I find https://coinb.in/#fees much better.

If I use the lower fees recommended in https://coinb.in/#fees, will confirmations take longer to process?

Make sure to send all transactions as RBF in case the fee is too low.

What is RBF please? And how do I go about doing it using Electrum 3.0.1? (I am quite new to Bitcoin jargon.)

A related sub-topic and on which I hope you can provide me some feedback:

A few minutes ago, I launched Electrum 3.1.0, input some data and on clicking the "Preview" button, below is what I got:

Fee is 2 sat/byte for a total of 258 bytes. There is only one input and 2 outputs for an imaginary transaction. (There are 3 options for "Fee estimation": "Static", "ETA" and "Mempool". I chose "Mempool".)

What's your opinion on the transaction fee of 2 sat/byte and what is the estimated time of having just one confirmation?
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March 08, 2018, 06:48:18 AM
 #16

Thanks for taking the time to provide a screenshot of the web page.

It's estimation is a bit more expensive then needed though, I find https://coinb.in/#fees much better.

If I use the lower fees recommended in https://coinb.in/#fees, will confirmations take longer to process?

Make sure to send all transactions as RBF in case the fee is too low.

What is RBF please? And how do I go about doing it using Electrum 3.0.1? (I am quite new to Bitcoin jargon.)

A related sub-topic and on which I hope you can provide me some feedback:

A few minutes ago, I launched Electrum 3.1.0, input some data and on clicking the "Preview" button, below is what I got:

Fee is 2 sat/byte for a total of 258 bytes. There is only one input and 2 outputs for an imaginary transaction. (There are 3 options for "Fee estimation": "Static", "ETA" and "Mempool". I chose "Mempool".)

What's your opinion on the transaction fee of 2 sat/byte and what is the estimated time of having just one confirmation?

I have sent transactions yesterday and today which both used around 2-4 sats per byte fees. Nothing wrong with it and I got confirmations as soon as the first block was mined. So even though the newest electrum update says that it will confirm in 25 blocks, that is realistically a very pessimistic prediction. You pretty much can drag the fee estimate slider to the very left at the moment.

There are always risks with paying with low fees, even with right now, it could take a few more blocks to get a confirmation than if you went with 20 sats/byte.

To enable RBF - Go to electrum preferences and select always proposing RBF. It lets you replace your transaction with a higher fee, in case your initial transaction was sent with too low of a fee. Something to fall back on basically.

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March 08, 2018, 08:22:40 AM
 #17

I got confirmations as soon as the first block was mined.

What is the average length of time for the first block to be mined after I click the "Send" button? 30 minutes? 60 minutes? 90 minutes?

it could take a few more blocks to get a confirmation than if you went with 20 sats/byte.

Based on your statement above, am I supposed to think that a confirmation consists of many blocks? If that is the case, what is the average length of time to have just one confirmation? Some vendors use third party payment channels and the latter usually set a limit of 15 minutes per transaction.

It lets you replace your transaction with a higher fee, in case your initial transaction was sent with too low of a fee. Something to fall back on basically.

If the initial transaction was sent with too low of a fee, can I conclude that payment to the recipient does not go through? How do I check that my payment is unsuccessful? I will only replace a low fee with a higher one only when I am sure that my initial transaction is unsuccessful. I wish to avoid sending the same fund twice to the same recipient.
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March 08, 2018, 11:41:17 AM
 #18

I am relatively new to bitcoins and only used Electrum wallet at most twice.

I sent 0.0004 BTC, Size: 325 bytes but the fee that I paid was 0.00143440 BTC (441 sat/byte). Can someone is more knowledgeable than me explain how it happened and what steps I could have taken to avoid paying such high transaction fees?

In Electrum, under Preferences > Fees,

Fee estimation: Static
Edit fees manually (box was ticked)
Use Replace-By-Fee (box was ticked)

Under Preferences > Transactions,

Use change addresses (box was ticked)
Use multiple change addresses (box was ticked)

Under Network > Proxy

Use Tor proxy at port 9150 (box was ticked)
Use Proxy (box was ticked)

SOCKS5   127.0.0.1   9150

Yes, I sent my payment via Tor.
That's so hard to accept in just only 0.0004 btc with high fees and i think also always think or read twice before you do transaction because the fee is high more than your going to transact

We have different wallets here so go in look where the affordable for you

Best way to avoid high fee is don't do transaction in that time and wait until the fee is back to normal

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March 08, 2018, 11:51:52 AM
 #19

What is the average length of time for the first block to be mined after I click the "Send" button? 30 minutes? 60 minutes? 90 minutes?
Check out the stats page on blockchain.info:
https://blockchain.info/stats

BTC is averaging about 9 minutes/block.  That means that *on average* you should get your first confirmation within that time.  If you get that first confirmation then your fee was high enough.

Before sending BTC I always check here:
https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/

That way I have my eyes wide open about what the prevailing fees are.  You can see it's currently taking 1-10 sat/byte.  A couple of days ago I sent a transaction at 4 sat/byte and it confirmed on the first block.

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
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March 08, 2018, 01:21:19 PM
 #20

IMHO, best real time mining fee estimation is provided by https://btc.com/stats/unconfirmed-tx
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