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Author Topic: Is "casual" mining still sustainable? Is buying a new rig stupid?  (Read 6457 times)
AngelusWebDesign
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July 22, 2011, 09:56:35 PM
 #41

The DIY aluminum case (in the post you linked to) is pretty slick -- the main problem I have with it is: time. I don't have that level of free time for mechanical tinkering.
That thing costs *quite a bit* if you factor in even $8/hour for your time.

True, there's the "learning experience" factor, which we've all indulged in for building rigs. But you only have so much time to learn Wink
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July 22, 2011, 10:02:36 PM
 #42

The DIY aluminum case (in the post you linked to) is pretty slick -- the main problem I have with it is: time. I don't have that level of free time for mechanical tinkering.
That thing costs *quite a bit* if you factor in even $8/hour for your time.

True, there's the "learning experience" factor, which we've all indulged in for building rigs. But you only have so much time to learn Wink


I agree. I don't have the time to sit around cutting and drilling and measuring. A $50-60 4U rackmount case and a couple of 120mm fans is faster to deploy, easier to resell, easier to manage, and all around more professional.

Imaging trying to resell that - "I made this case in my garage! It's really awesome I swear."

<luke-jr> Catholics do not believe in freedom of religion.
mike678
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July 23, 2011, 12:10:02 AM
 #43

As long as you have the equipment I'd assume it could take no more then an hour to build I have some previous experience with the tools not much though.
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July 23, 2011, 01:24:38 AM
 #44

if you ask me.. you need to find someone getting out of bitcoin mining and just buy their rigs.
for example, a while ago i bought two boxes... 5830x2 in each.. for 400 each. The usual setup
we all tend to buy on newegg with cheap cases. I just leave the side off.

so that was 1200+ mh/s for 800 dollars..

my other box has more serious parts in it because i plan to keep it long term to replace my
antique i am typing on now which has a nvidia 8800GT in it. So that box consists of
2x reference 6950s with shaders unlocked, the really nice MSI MB mentioned above, a nice
1000 watt power supply, etc.. Naturally the other parts are dirt cheap just to get it running
like a sempron and cheap ram. Once I am done with mining I will rebuy those parts to make it
more of a serious workstation/gaming machine (plus those parts will be cheaper down the road).
I also stuck a used 5850 in it to fill it out more. No case yet.

So now I am at ~2000 for 2400+ mh/s...

plus the rebates are finally starting to trickle in! just got another 25 dollar check today.
it is the MSI rebates i worry about. darn pricks are slow.

So it all depends on your goal. If you plan to replace an old computer make sure the core
parts are high quality. Don't feel bad about spending more on those. The rest buy cheap
to get it going. But once that is done.. man o man.. you need to find some great deals
to drop down the mh per dollar equation.

P.S. the price also includes a legit windows 7 x64 professional license that i plan to use
for many years to come. the other two boxes are not so legit if you follow me ;-)

as of right now i am pretty happy with what i have.. and really am not desiring to buy
more unless a great deal comes along. And the longer you wait.. with diff going up...
it just gets worse and worse.
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July 23, 2011, 04:16:32 AM
 #45

And the longer you wait.. with diff going up...
it just gets worse and worse.

As long as you bring in more than you pay in electric then it's all good.

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Xephan
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July 23, 2011, 04:22:34 AM
 #46

726*5   =$4356
1,206*3=$3618

That means the 3 gpu rig costs 20% more.

Not really fair when you pick different quality PSU for the rigs, especially a, IMO, lower quality & cheaper one for the 5 card setup. An equivalent Corsair 1200AX would cost another US$40 more, closing the gap by US$120.

Also you're getting a required high end board only at $145 because of a special offer, which may not be valid tomorrow for all we know, so let's throw that in $50x3 difference.

Since we're using risers here, no reasons why we cannot make use of 1x PCIe slots as well. Boards which have 3x PCIe slots of any variety are commonly available on Newegg for $100 or less. So that reduces the 5x rigs by $27 each or $135 difference.

Now add in the time spent to purchase and assemble the open rig frame, say 2 hours average each at a labour cost of US$10/hr for $60 total.

During that 6 hours, the 3-gpu rigs would had been mining away at some 4500~5000MH/s which could possibly net up to 1BTC, not a lot but if there was a lucky streak during that 6 hours, it could be more.

Adjusted amounts would be US$4221 vs US$3948, ignoring possible gains from mining first, which is less than 7% difference Wink


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mike678
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July 23, 2011, 03:27:26 PM
 #47

726*5   =$4356
1,206*3=$3618

That means the 3 gpu rig costs 20% more.

Not really fair when you pick different quality PSU for the rigs, especially a, IMO, lower quality & cheaper one for the 5 card setup. An equivalent Corsair 1200AX would cost another US$40 more, closing the gap by US$120.

Also you're getting a required high end board only at $145 because of a special offer, which may not be valid tomorrow for all we know, so let's throw that in $50x3 difference.

Since we're using risers here, no reasons why we cannot make use of 1x PCIe slots as well. Boards which have 3x PCIe slots of any variety are commonly available on Newegg for $100 or less. So that reduces the 5x rigs by $27 each or $135 difference.

Now add in the time spent to purchase and assemble the open rig frame, say 2 hours average each at a labour cost of US$10/hr for $60 total.

During that 6 hours, the 3-gpu rigs would had been mining away at some 4500~5000MH/s which could possibly net up to 1BTC, not a lot but if there was a lucky streak during that 6 hours, it could be more.

Adjusted amounts would be US$4221 vs US$3948, ignoring possible gains from mining first, which is less than 7% difference Wink



The 1200w psu I picked out isn't bad I mean I picked out an 80 plus gold and cooler masters isn't a bad company. The corsair for the 750w I chose is only 80 plus(not gold) so they may be different brands but they are both fine.

I agree you could go cheaper with the the 5 gpu mobo I just chose that because it is the mobo I use.

I honestly consider bitcoins a hobby and I wouldn't consider the 2 hours building the rig wasted. Also if you learned how to build the rig once it would drastically take down the build time for the next two. You could easily shave 2 hours off that time. Another thing to consider is you could build all 3 rigs at the same time and it would cut down on transition time between steps. I bet if you did all three at the same time it would take no longer then 3 hours.

I'd also like to point out build time for putting the pieces in the case and relocating the wires so it stays cool takes time too for the 3 gpu cases. There's 5 of them to put together as apposed to three so I bet it would take even the most skilled computer builder at least 2 hours to put together 5 computers.

This makes the gap even larger again (too lazy to recalc the numbers) but I bet it would be closer to 15%
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July 23, 2011, 03:37:17 PM
 #48


I honestly consider bitcoins a hobby and I wouldn't consider the 2 hours building the rig wasted. Also if you learned how to build the rig once it would drastically take down the build time for the next two. You could easily shave 2 hours off that time. Another thing to consider is you could build all 3 rigs at the same time and it would cut down on transition time between steps. I bet if you did all three at the same time it would take no longer then 3 hours.

I was estimating maybe 3hrs for the first attempt with the usual first time mistakes, then 2 and finally 1 so averaging 2/rig. But this really depends on the person's skills so we could both be right and wrong Cheesy

Quote
I'd also like to point out build time for putting the pieces in the case and relocating the wires so it stays cool takes time too for the 3 gpu cases. There's 5 of them to put together as apposed to three so I bet it would take even the most skilled computer builder at least 2 hours to put together 5 computers.

Quite true, I overlooked this part also. Although around here, I usually order new systems assembled and it only costs about $10 extra.

Quote
This makes the gap even larger again (too lazy to recalc the numbers) but I bet it would be closer to 15%

Agreed it's probably closer to 10~15% rather than our highest/lowest estimates. Smiley

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mike678
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July 23, 2011, 03:39:59 PM
 #49


I honestly consider bitcoins a hobby and I wouldn't consider the 2 hours building the rig wasted. Also if you learned how to build the rig once it would drastically take down the build time for the next two. You could easily shave 2 hours off that time. Another thing to consider is you could build all 3 rigs at the same time and it would cut down on transition time between steps. I bet if you did all three at the same time it would take no longer then 3 hours.

I was estimating maybe 3hrs for the first attempt with the usual first time mistakes, then 2 and finally 1 so averaging 2/rig. But this really depends on the person's skills so we could both be right and wrong Cheesy

Quote
I'd also like to point out build time for putting the pieces in the case and relocating the wires so it stays cool takes time too for the 3 gpu cases. There's 5 of them to put together as apposed to three so I bet it would take even the most skilled computer builder at least 2 hours to put together 5 computers.

Quite true, I overlooked this part also. Although around here, I usually order new systems assembled and it only costs about $10 extra.

Quote
This makes the gap even larger again (too lazy to recalc the numbers) but I bet it would be closer to 15%

Agreed it's probably closer to 10~15% rather than our highest/lowest estimates. Smiley


We're just nitpicking Tongue I think we can both agree a 5 rig set up is better then a 3
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July 25, 2011, 07:44:12 PM
 #50

I have a "casual" rig, and I'm using bitcoins to (slowly) build up a gaming rig.
 
You see, (and I pointed this out in a different thread) my casual rig is starting from a net value of "zero" as in "not in debt", because I look at it like this:  My wife let me purchase X dollars worth of gaming machine last year, and won't let me purchase anything new for a few more years.  So bitcoins aren't "real money" to her, and thusly anything I mine is positive gain.
 
I bought a second 5770 with bitcoins.  I just purchased a Corsair 800D case (I need it for cooling future cards since my other case sucks) and will continue to slowly piecemeal together a nice gaming rig.
 
So I'm the true "casual" guy.  I'm not in it for big gains (although it'd be nice), I just want to fund a nice gaming rig that stays ahead of the casual gamer's curve in terms of performance.  So a pair of 6990s (or whatever the equivalent is when I finally get $600 or $700 worth of coins) will be my next purchase, and then we'll see after that. Smiley
 
I don't begrudge the hardcore miners, shit if I was single I'd be doing exactly that.  So if you're in a boat similar to mine, just get what you want, and don't feel bad.  If the bitcoin economy crashes, you still have a nice gaming rig for enjoyment.  Smiley

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July 25, 2011, 07:54:15 PM
 #51

My wife let me purchase X dollars worth of gaming machine last year, and won't let me purchase anything new for a few more years.  So bitcoins aren't "real money" to her, and thusly anything I mine is positive gain.

I don't begrudge the hardcore miners, shit if I was single I'd be doing exactly that.  So if you're in a boat similar to mine, just get what you want, and don't feel bad.  If the bitcoin economy crashes, you still have a nice gaming rig for enjoyment.  Smiley


Don't take this the wrong way, but I've never understood how a guy could let his wife control the finances of the household. Even if she does the budget and bills how can you put your manhood in a drawer and have her dictate what you do with the money you make from work? My wife and I have always had separate finances. It keeps things really stable because I make a lot more than she does (about 3x) and I spend my free money on all kinds of toys, she spends her money on girl things, and neither of us can bitch and moan about what the other person is spending money on. I pay the bills and she gives me a percentage of the total monthly cost of living (rent, food, heat, electric, etc) which we determine by the income distribution. So basically, I pay 3/4 of the bills and she pays 1/4 because I make 3/4 of the household income. Everyone wins and no one has to limit what toys they are "allowed" to buy. I strongly recommend this method, it makes for a very respectful and stable relationship.


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July 25, 2011, 08:12:21 PM
 #52

My wife let me purchase X dollars worth of gaming machine last year, and won't let me purchase anything new for a few more years.  So bitcoins aren't "real money" to her, and thusly anything I mine is positive gain.

I don't begrudge the hardcore miners, shit if I was single I'd be doing exactly that.  So if you're in a boat similar to mine, just get what you want, and don't feel bad.  If the bitcoin economy crashes, you still have a nice gaming rig for enjoyment.  Smiley


Don't take this the wrong way, but I've never understood how a guy could let his wife control the finances of the household. Even if she does the budget and bills how can you put your manhood in a drawer and have her dictate what you do with the money you make from work? My wife and I have always had separate finances. It keeps things really stable because I make a lot more than she does (about 3x) and I spend my free money on all kinds of toys, she spends her money on girl things, and neither of us can bitch and moan about what the other person is spending money on. I pay the bills and she gives me a percentage of the total monthly cost of living (rent, food, heat, electric, etc) which we determine by the income distribution. So basically, I pay 3/4 of the bills and she pays 1/4 because I make 3/4 of the household income. Everyone wins and no one has to limit what toys they are "allowed" to buy. I strongly recommend this method, it makes for a very respectful and stable relationship.


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July 25, 2011, 08:22:47 PM
 #53

My wife let me purchase X dollars worth of gaming machine last year, and won't let me purchase anything new for a few more years.  So bitcoins aren't "real money" to her, and thusly anything I mine is positive gain.

I don't begrudge the hardcore miners, shit if I was single I'd be doing exactly that.  So if you're in a boat similar to mine, just get what you want, and don't feel bad.  If the bitcoin economy crashes, you still have a nice gaming rig for enjoyment.  Smiley


Don't take this the wrong way, but I've never understood how a guy could let his wife control the finances of the household. Even if she does the budget and bills how can you put your manhood in a drawer and have her dictate what you do with the money you make from work? My wife and I have always had separate finances. It keeps things really stable because I make a lot more than she does (about 3x) and I spend my free money on all kinds of toys, she spends her money on girl things, and neither of us can bitch and moan about what the other person is spending money on. I pay the bills and she gives me a percentage of the total monthly cost of living (rent, food, heat, electric, etc) which we determine by the income distribution. So basically, I pay 3/4 of the bills and she pays 1/4 because I make 3/4 of the household income. Everyone wins and no one has to limit what toys they are "allowed" to buy. I strongly recommend this method, it makes for a very respectful and stable relationship.



I keep trying to get her to adopt that method, too, but honestly, we both recognize that without checks and balances, we'd probably have no money tied up in savings.  At least this way we have some back-up money (and we have children, so that eats up a ton of money). 
 
Without this method, I'd spend my extra cash on strippers and weed Wink

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Xephan
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July 25, 2011, 08:32:48 PM
 #54


I keep trying to get her to adopt that method, too, but honestly, we both recognize that without checks and balances, we'd probably have no money tied up in savings.  At least this way we have some back-up money (and we have children, so that eats up a ton of money). 
 
Without this method, I'd spend my extra cash on strippers and weed Wink

Why not a joint savings account? What me and my former partner used to do was to put the same amount into a joint account. It's not a huge sum but even if you do $200 each, that would be an ok $4.8K every year to deal with any emergencies. Taking any money out requires both signature so can't cheat. As to why equal instead of a percentage of our salary? Well, makes for less arguments when you have to split.

Then the rest of your money after paying off shared expenses, you can each get to spend however you want.

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July 27, 2011, 06:00:07 AM
 #55

My wife let me purchase X dollars worth of gaming machine last year, and won't let me purchase anything new for a few more years.  So bitcoins aren't "real money" to her, and thusly anything I mine is positive gain.

I don't begrudge the hardcore miners, shit if I was single I'd be doing exactly that.  So if you're in a boat similar to mine, just get what you want, and don't feel bad.  If the bitcoin economy crashes, you still have a nice gaming rig for enjoyment.  Smiley


Don't take this the wrong way, but I've never understood how a guy could let his wife control the finances of the household. Even if she does the budget and bills how can you put your manhood in a drawer and have her dictate what you do with the money you make from work? My wife and I have always had separate finances. It keeps things really stable because I make a lot more than she does (about 3x) and I spend my free money on all kinds of toys, she spends her money on girl things, and neither of us can bitch and moan about what the other person is spending money on. I pay the bills and she gives me a percentage of the total monthly cost of living (rent, food, heat, electric, etc) which we determine by the income distribution. So basically, I pay 3/4 of the bills and she pays 1/4 because I make 3/4 of the household income. Everyone wins and no one has to limit what toys they are "allowed" to buy. I strongly recommend this method, it makes for a very respectful and stable relationship.




I have been with a girl for 2 years, and this is pretty much what we do. Money is not something we argue over. She even invested in bitcoin mining hardware =P guess I'm lucky

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July 27, 2011, 07:22:41 PM
 #56

keep in mind 95% of the population is absolutely *retarded* about managing finances.
AngelusWebDesign
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July 27, 2011, 08:25:42 PM
 #57

keep in mind 95% of the population is absolutely *retarded* about managing finances.

+1

Anyone who pays 15% (or more) interest on a credit card balance is pretty bad with money. And that's a *lot* of people.
It's even worse if they charged up stuff because it was "on sale", not realizing they'll pay much more for it in the long run.
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July 27, 2011, 08:45:16 PM
 #58

keep in mind 95% of the population is absolutely *retarded* about managing finances.

+1

Anyone who pays 15% (or more) interest on a credit card balance is pretty bad with money. And that's a *lot* of people.
It's even worse if they charged up stuff because it was "on sale", not realizing they'll pay much more for it in the long run.


Yeah, I know what you mean. I just finished paying off 24K of credit cards this year and got out of my house via short sale. Feels good to be free. FREE!!!! HAHAHAHAHA! NO MORE DEBT!! Cheesy

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