Bitcoin Forum
December 08, 2016, 06:18:51 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Your Economic Recovery Program  (Read 2514 times)
niemivh
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196



View Profile
July 22, 2011, 12:00:10 AM
 #1

Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

16LdMA6pCgq9ULrstHmiwwwbGe1BJQyDqr
1481177931
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481177931

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481177931
Reply with quote  #2

1481177931
Report to moderator
1481177931
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481177931

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481177931
Reply with quote  #2

1481177931
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481177931
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481177931

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481177931
Reply with quote  #2

1481177931
Report to moderator
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 22, 2011, 01:16:25 AM
 #2

Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

1) Printing money will-nilly.
2) STOP!

Simple, brief, yes... But added complexity wouldn't help anything.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
Bitcoin_Silver_Supply
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 259



View Profile
July 22, 2011, 01:24:49 AM
 #3

Myrkul got to the root of it. I would add:

3) Decentralize superstates, pull out of the UN, neuter the non-essential authority of national governments
4) Rip all "carbon treaties" and emissions goals
5) Abolish national and global industry cartels ("regulatory boards")
6) Allow competing currencies
7) End imperial wars of intervention
8.) End involuntary, state-based foreign aid
9) Encourage localized charities over unaccountable, state-funded NGOs
TheGer
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490



View Profile
July 22, 2011, 03:56:02 AM
 #4

That about sums it up.

End of thread.
niemivh
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196



View Profile
July 22, 2011, 11:29:21 PM
 #5

Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

1) Printing money will-nilly.
2) STOP!

Simple, brief, yes... But added complexity wouldn't help anything.

So a deflationary panic meltdown of the market by cutting off all new credit?

This would result in millions of deaths and probably WWIII.

Try again.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

16LdMA6pCgq9ULrstHmiwwwbGe1BJQyDqr
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 22, 2011, 11:32:02 PM
 #6

So a deflationary panic meltdown of the market by cutting off all new credit?

This would result in millions of deaths and probably WWIII.

Try again.

If you know what is at the end of the road in the first place, why start down it?

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
LastBattle
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84



View Profile
July 22, 2011, 11:38:43 PM
 #7

Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

1) Printing money will-nilly.
2) STOP!

Simple, brief, yes... But added complexity wouldn't help anything.

So a deflationary panic meltdown of the market by cutting off all new credit?

This would result in millions of deaths and probably WWIII.

Try again.

Because without an excess of credit, the wealth it represents would disappear.

Yeah, this is a massive simplification. Honestly, the correct answer under the ideal conditions would be "End legal tender", "End most federal agencies (assuming we are recovering the US economy", "Cut taxes" and "Pull out of any international organizations that would attempt to stop the US from doing this for being a so-called tax haven (UN, World Bank, etc)" in that order. Without doing that, the best option would be "No bailouts, wait out recession, then jack up rates to clear out excess credit" (Kind of like the Volcker solution).

You're standing on a flagstone running with blood, alone and so very lonely because you can't choose but you had to

I take tips to: 14sF7NNGJzXvoBcfbLR6N4Exy8umCAqdBd
niemivh
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196



View Profile
July 22, 2011, 11:41:55 PM
 #8

Myrkul got to the root of it. I would add:

3) Decentralize superstates, pull out of the UN, neuter the non-essential authority of national governments
4) Rip all "carbon treaties" and emissions goals
5) Abolish national and global industry cartels ("regulatory boards")
6) Allow competing currencies
7) End imperial wars of intervention
8.) End involuntary, state-based foreign aid
9) Encourage localized charities over unaccountable, state-funded NGOs

This is much better but lacking still.  I assume you are going with 1 & 2 from the previous post.  Well if you did the rest of your 3-9 wouldn't even matter because you would have complete disintegration of your political process to which we are dangerously close already.  Getting out of a global depression is like defusing a ticking time bomb and simply smashing it with a hammer of "quit printing money willy nilly" will not work unless we have some more clarification.  A deflationary crash to mimic the Great Depression won't help us right now but will kill millions of people.

What would you do to employee the global imperial army upon their return home from the stupid wars of aggression that we've been engaging in?  A bunch of out of work solders is a very dangerous thing to simply have 'laying around'.  What would you do to help return them into the workforce?

I would also say to sell 10-20% of our foreign bases to the countries that they're in.  I'm sure they're worth quite a bit and could help us pay down some debt.  Not all at once, you don't want to destabilize the world power structure overnight and you don't want to get 'fire sale' prices for the bases that we've spent so much money building, but most of them could be gradually sold off.

Other than that I agree with pulling out of the UN, ending the carbon treaties, probably most or all of 5 if you clarify, 6 I'm not a huge fan but perhaps you can make a great case for it, 7 definitely in 100% support of, 8 in favor of 90% of, 9 in favor of too - I'd pull many Foundation's non-profit tax status papers and shred them on public television.

As you seem quite educated I look forward to what else you'll add to this.

 Smiley

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

16LdMA6pCgq9ULrstHmiwwwbGe1BJQyDqr
niemivh
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196



View Profile
July 22, 2011, 11:45:19 PM
 #9

So a deflationary panic meltdown of the market by cutting off all new credit?

This would result in millions of deaths and probably WWIII.

Try again.

If you know what is at the end of the road in the first place, why start down it?

Because this path is preventable and we are choosing it by our actions and beliefs.

This is not an inevitable outcome.  It depends on the choices we make.

If we choose to cause a deflationary crash in hope that "the market" will save us many will die, this is a fact.  That is why I implore you to reconsider what you think a recovery program would look like.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

16LdMA6pCgq9ULrstHmiwwwbGe1BJQyDqr
niemivh
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196



View Profile
July 22, 2011, 11:49:48 PM
 #10

Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

1) Printing money will-nilly.
2) STOP!

Simple, brief, yes... But added complexity wouldn't help anything.

So a deflationary panic meltdown of the market by cutting off all new credit?

This would result in millions of deaths and probably WWIII.

Try again.

Because without an excess of credit, the wealth it represents would disappear.

Yeah, this is a massive simplification. Honestly, the correct answer under the ideal conditions would be "End legal tender", "End most federal agencies (assuming we are recovering the US economy", "Cut taxes" and "Pull out of any international organizations that would attempt to stop the US from doing this for being a so-called tax haven (UN, World Bank, etc)" in that order. Without doing that, the best option would be "No bailouts, wait out recession, then jack up rates to clear out excess credit" (Kind of like the Volcker solution).

Volckner solved less than he caused.  His actions devastated the industrial sector of the USA while chasing phantoms of inflation.  Inflation is about 13th on what the average person should be demanding out of a central bank policy.  In addition much of what the Central Banks consider inflation is a rise in wages -- to which they are against.  A 20% prime rate is exactly what we don't need right now.  That would cause incredible misery and hardship for 99% of the world and favor those that have money in this economy which really only is the rich and super rich, everyone else's effective debt burden would be greatly expounded by the deflation this would cause.  Works great for the bankers though, they sign you on to some debt when money is cheap (low interest rates) and then get you to pay that back after the price of money is made very expensive (high interest rates).


I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

16LdMA6pCgq9ULrstHmiwwwbGe1BJQyDqr
niemivh
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196



View Profile
July 22, 2011, 11:54:15 PM
 #11

The overall lack of solutions being posted to this board proves the general ignorance of the member of this forum on economics.  That goes for all that aren't reading this.

 Cheesy

This depression can be stopped almost overnight, this is a political problem not a failing of economics or a lack of solutions that do exist if we seek to find them.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

16LdMA6pCgq9ULrstHmiwwwbGe1BJQyDqr
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 22, 2011, 11:57:59 PM
 #12

The overall lack of solutions being posted to this board proves the general ignorance of the member of this forum on economics.  That goes for all that aren't reading this.

 Cheesy

This depression can be stopped almost overnight, this is a political problem not a failing of economics or a lack of solutions that do exist if we seek to find them.


Well, Please, enlighten us, oh Guru, that we may bask in your radiance, and make you Fed Chairman ASAP.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
LastBattle
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84



View Profile
July 23, 2011, 12:00:37 AM
 #13

Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

1) Printing money will-nilly.
2) STOP!

Simple, brief, yes... But added complexity wouldn't help anything.

So a deflationary panic meltdown of the market by cutting off all new credit?

This would result in millions of deaths and probably WWIII.

Try again.

Because without an excess of credit, the wealth it represents would disappear.

Yeah, this is a massive simplification. Honestly, the correct answer under the ideal conditions would be "End legal tender", "End most federal agencies (assuming we are recovering the US economy", "Cut taxes" and "Pull out of any international organizations that would attempt to stop the US from doing this for being a so-called tax haven (UN, World Bank, etc)" in that order. Without doing that, the best option would be "No bailouts, wait out recession, then jack up rates to clear out excess credit" (Kind of like the Volcker solution).

Volckner solved less than he caused.  His actions devastated the industrial sector of the USA while chasing phantoms of inflation.  Inflation is about 13th on what the average person should be demanding out of a central bank policy.  In addition much of what the Central Banks consider inflation is a rise in wages -- to which they are against.  A 20% prime rate is exactly what we don't need right now.  That would cause incredible misery and hardship for 99% of the world and favor those that have money in this economy which really only is the rich and super rich, everyone else's effective debt burden would be greatly expounded by the deflation this would cause.  Works great for the bankers though, they sign you on to some debt when money is cheap (low interest rates) and then get you to pay that back after the price of money is made very expensive (high interest rates).



Uh, what?

Have you even heard of prices in the 70s? The US was a couple of clumsy rate decreases away from hyperinflation and collapse. Had Volcker not increased rates, the US would have been screwed over and Jimmy Carter's idiotic new government agencies wouldn't have helped in the slightest. As it was, he dealt with inflation and the US recovered from the recession and began to grow again. A lot of the growth was from easy credit policies, but at the very least the malinvestment of the past thirty years was cleared out and the economy was far healthier in the long run as a result. Mind, a solution like that might not work this time, it might take a more radical push (again, removing legal tender), but it would at the very least be better than bailouts, easy lending, lots of inflation, bailouts for other countries trying equally retarded strategies (Japan and the Eurozone lack the "worldwide reserve currency" status of the USA), and stagnation.

The facts of the 80s disagree with your wild claims about catastrophe from high rates.


Quote
The overall lack of solutions being posted to this board proves the general ignorance of the member of this forum on economics.  That goes for all that aren't reading this.

 

This depression can be stopped almost overnight, this is a political problem not a failing of economics or a lack of solutions that do exist if we seek to find them.

"DAMN IT YOU GUYS! YOU AREN'T COMING TO THE CONCLUSIONS I WANT SO IMMA CLAIM YOU DIDN'T PROVIDE ANY SOLUTIONS"

derp


You're standing on a flagstone running with blood, alone and so very lonely because you can't choose but you had to

I take tips to: 14sF7NNGJzXvoBcfbLR6N4Exy8umCAqdBd
indio007
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210


View Profile
July 23, 2011, 12:46:24 AM
 #14

Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

1. Automation.

2. What Depression?
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 23, 2011, 12:52:10 AM
 #15

Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

1. Automation.

Automation?

Don't tell me you're one of those "Robots will doom the workforce!!!1one!" people are you?

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
indio007
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210


View Profile
July 23, 2011, 01:10:58 AM
 #16

Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

1. Automation.

Automation?

Don't tell me you're one of those "Robots will doom the workforce!!!1one!" people are you?

It's more than robots.
Barcode scanners for example
 Less than 50 years ago you could raise a family as a clerk. Now they have you doing it yourself.
Automated cars are a decade away. Do you have any idea how many people drive for work?
Just wait . You'll see.
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 23, 2011, 01:23:42 AM
 #17

Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

1. Automation.

Automation?

Don't tell me you're one of those "Robots will doom the workforce!!!1one!" people are you?

It's more than robots.
Barcode scanners for example
 Less than 50 years ago you could raise a family as a clerk. Now they have you doing it yourself.
Automated cars are a decade away. Do you have any idea how many people drive for work?
Just wait . You'll see.

Automation doesn't wreck the economy. Imagine how many scribes were put out of work when the printing press was invented.
Imagine how many harvesters were put out of work when the tractor was invented.
Automation doesn't ruin the economy, it shifts it.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
bitplane
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 321

Firstbits: 1gyzhw


View Profile WWW
July 23, 2011, 02:11:21 AM
 #18

Automation doesn't wreck the economy. Imagine how many scribes were put out of work when the printing press was invented.
Imagine how many harvesters were put out of work when the tractor was invented.
Automation doesn't ruin the economy, it shifts it.

We'll see about that in the next few decades when AI can not only do any job that even the most skilled and creative human can do, but can be trained much faster than the redundant human workforce. Prostitution might survive for a while, but I don't fancy manning a glory hole through my golden years
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 23, 2011, 02:16:25 AM
 #19

Automation doesn't wreck the economy. Imagine how many scribes were put out of work when the printing press was invented.
Imagine how many harvesters were put out of work when the tractor was invented.
Automation doesn't ruin the economy, it shifts it.

We'll see about that in the next few decades when AI can not only do any job that even the most skilled and creative human can do, but can be trained much faster than the redundant human workforce. Prostitution might survive for a while, but I don't fancy manning a glory hole through my golden years

At least this batch of techno-alarmists is more entertaining than the last 50.

Fire bad! Thok like cold meat! Wheel Bad! Thok like walking!

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
lemonginger
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210


firstbits: 121vnq


View Profile
July 23, 2011, 02:18:45 AM
 #20

If AI can do every job a skilled and creative human can, you've got a lot more to worry about than your naughty bits.

--

I agree that automation doesn't nec hurt workers, but it doesn't nec help them either under the current arrangement, as most of the profit from that productivity gain gets captured by the super-rich. If we lived in a different socioeconomic system, I'd be a lot more excited about advancements that allow productivity to be gained, because then it is much more liekly that people will actually have the choice to work less and maintain a basic standard of living - eg the mythical world where the dripfeed essentially provides you basic shelter and food for next to nothing and one can build on top of that.
Pages: [1] 2 3 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!