UK Gambling Commission says UK based sites need a license!

[ButterflySammy]

I see a lot of people here saying that Bitcoin Gambling sites in the UK do not need to be licensed because "Bitcoin is not money".

The Gambling Commission takes a different view:

Dear ButterflySammy,
 
Thank you for your email.
 
You mention that HMRC doesn’t recognise Bitcoin as currency, which is fine.
 
However, when it comes to gambling, the Gambling Act 2005 defines gambling as the ability to win prizes of money, or money’s worth.
 
While bitcoin can’t be classed as money, per se, it certainly counts as money’s worth.
 
The Gambling Commission receives a number of requests from people seeking advice or approval in setting up a business. We do not provide legal advice, including advice concerning the correct interpretation of legislation. Therefore, we cannot advise you regarding the viability or legality of a business idea. It is up to you to obtain your own business or legal advice.
 
Kind regards,
 
Licensing Officer

There you have it - Bitcoin is "Money's Worth" even if it isn't "Money" therefor any site operating in or from the UK still needs a license.

If you are betting with or investing in a UK based site you need to be aware that they could be shutdown and take your money with them.

If you run or are plan on running such a site - you need to lawyer up or start filling in the paperwork. I had a look at the fees, it is not cheap, it is not pretty.

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[b!z]

This is good information, thank you for sharing it. Hopefully some sites will get a license and comply with the laws to avoid legal problems.

[dragonkid]

This is good information, thank you for sharing it. Hopefully some sites will get a license and comply with the laws to avoid legal problems.

Alternatively host the gambling site offshore. 

[ButterflySammy]

This is good information, thank you for sharing it. Hopefully some sites will get a license and comply with the laws to avoid legal problems.

Alternatively host the gambling site offshore.  

Careful - UK based developers may still need a developer license and operators may still need a personal/organisational license if they reside within the UK.

If you ever try to cash out your share of your sites takings and the bank reports it upstream or if you were to record it faithfully on your tax return, if you were discovered to be operating without proper licensing even through an offshore website, you could still face the same fines and jail time.

Rather than take legal advice from people on a forum - which let's be honest is why we ended up with so many sites before one of them even consulted the law, get a lawyer rather than thinking you or someone else with no legal experience whatsoever have found a loophole.

[darkmule]

If you run or are plan on running such a site - you need to lawyer up or start filling in the paperwork. I had a look at the fees, it is not cheap, it is not pretty.

This is probably true in most places.  However, there isn't just a bureaucratic issue, which would be bad enough.  Often the "regulatory" bodies for gambling are utterly corrupt.  It's not for nothing that one of the largest corruption scandals in recent memory involved Indian casinos, which basically involved extorting bribes from casinos to shut their competitors down, while playing both sides of the fence.  I.e. "Christian" crook Ralph Reed would have his "Christian" group attack casinos, but not the ones who were paying the cartel.

[ButterflySammy]

If you run or are plan on running such a site - you need to lawyer up or start filling in the paperwork. I had a look at the fees, it is not cheap, it is not pretty.

This is probably true in most places.  However, there isn't just a bureaucratic issue, which would be bad enough.  Often the "regulatory" bodies for gambling are utterly corrupt.  It's not for nothing that one of the largest corruption scandals in recent memory involved Indian casinos, which basically involved extorting bribes from casinos to shut their competitors down, while playing both sides of the fence.  I.e. "Christian" crook Ralph Reed would have his "Christian" group attack casinos, but not the ones who were paying the cartel.

[monsterer]

This guy says he phoned them 4 months ago and they said they don't issue gambling licences for bitcoin:

http://www.justanswer.com/uk-law/7rxz1-hi-i-seen-bitcoin-deposit-withdrawal-gambling.html

[Dabs]

How about anonymous developers who live in unknown places on earth, but virtually guaranteed to be outside the UK. (Or there is no proof they are in the UK.)

[ButterflySammy]

This guy says he phoned them 4 months ago and they said they don't issue gambling licences for bitcoin:

http://www.justanswer.com/uk-law/7rxz1-hi-i-seen-bitcoin-deposit-withdrawal-gambling.html

Maybe the guy on the internet is wrong. Maybe they changed their mind since he asked.

I spoke to them this week, they don't issue licenses "for Bitcoin" but they do think Bitcoin is covered by existing gambling laws.

Feel free to email or call yourself.

[monsterer]

Maybe the guy on the internet is wrong. Maybe they changed their mind since he asked.

I spoke to them this week, they don't issue licenses "for Bitcoin" but they do think Bitcoin is covered by existing gambling laws.

Feel free to email or call yourself.

Did you look into costs?

[dragonkid]

This is good information, thank you for sharing it. Hopefully some sites will get a license and comply with the laws to avoid legal problems.

Alternatively host the gambling site offshore.  

Careful - UK based developers may still need a developer license and operators may still need a personal/organisational license if they reside within the UK.

If you ever try to cash out your share of your sites takings and the bank reports it upstream or if you were to record it faithfully on your tax return, if you were discovered to be operating without proper licensing even through an offshore website, you could still face the same fines and jail time.

Rather than take legal advice from people on a forum - which let's be honest is why we ended up with so many sites before one of them even consulted the law, get a lawyer rather than thinking you or someone else with no legal experience whatsoever have found a loophole.

This is why you don't cash out your share of the BTC, you don't send it to a bank, and you leave it off your tax return. You SPEND it. You can buy cash right off of BitMit, or buy something which holds its value well for a short time and sell it.

Yeah, you don't need to cash them out into your bank account, then you don't need to pay tax return. That is the point of doing it offshore. I know a lot of people who work abroad. And they will put those money in their offshore account which don't pay tax.

Also if you really need money, just go to localbitcoins.com exchange only what you need and spend it.

[tonyq]

The UK Gambling Commission has written to online sportsbooks, bookmakers and casinos telling them to block anyone with a UK IP address.
Already, Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin betting exchange have implemented this today.
It's outrageous.

[yahoo62278]

The UK Gambling Commission has written to online sportsbooks, bookmakers and casinos telling them to block anyone with a UK IP address.
Already, Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin betting exchange have implemented this today.
It's outrageous.

couldnt users do just like they do on primedice and use a vpn though? seems like theres a loophole for almost everything these days

[Wharf]

The UK Gambling Commission has written to online sportsbooks, bookmakers and casinos telling them to block anyone with a UK IP address.
Already, Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin betting exchange have implemented this today.
It's outrageous.

Are Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin UK based?

If not, why are they blocking UK IPs?

I don't understand why everyone seems to be taking orders from the UK Gambling Commission all of a sudden without any explanation to end users.

Any more details on this would be appreciated.

[sherbyspark]

The UK Gambling Commission has written to online sportsbooks, bookmakers and casinos telling them to block anyone with a UK IP address.
Already, Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin betting exchange have implemented this today.
It's outrageous.

couldnt users do just like they do on primedice and use a vpn though? seems like theres a loophole for almost everything these days

Yes they can login using VPN and TOR . I couldn't find any news article relating to the info however, but does seem UK users have been locked out. 
But I also see Pokerstars starting to open a sportsbook in the UK just recently: http://uk.pokernews.com/news/2015/05/pokerstars-sports-betting-offering-goes-live-in-the-uk-17854.htm

Seems they will be setback as well.

[Xialla]

ahh, internet has no borders..why should somebody host his site in UK, if they had such regulations? for bitcoin sites, I don't see any issue at all here..fortunately.)

[sherbyspark]

ahh, internet has no borders..why should somebody host his site in UK, if they had such regulations? for bitcoin sites, I don't see any issue at all here..fortunately.)

It did have some affect on bitcoin sites. Directbet and Fairlay seems to have blocked UK based IP's already .

[lottoitaliano]

But Uk request a license to uk based site, only for tax questions?
Because in italy, first you can bet to all site in the world, now you can bet only to italian site with government license and have a odds more low of 20% to other

[Xialla]

It did have some affect on bitcoin sites. Directbet and Fairlay seems to have blocked UK based IP's already .

blocking IP's of some site is like fighting with wind mills. in world of dynamis DNS, cheap VPS and anonymous domain, almost nothing can stop you..

[ComboChris]

I see a lot of people here saying that Bitcoin Gambling sites in the UK do not need to be licensed because "Bitcoin is not money".

The Gambling Commission takes a different view:

Dear ButterflySammy,
 
Thank you for your email.
 
You mention that HMRC doesn’t recognise Bitcoin as currency, which is fine.
 
However, when it comes to gambling, the Gambling Act 2005 defines gambling as the ability to win prizes of money, or money’s worth.
 
While bitcoin can’t be classed as money, per se, it certainly counts as money’s worth.
 
The Gambling Commission receives a number of requests from people seeking advice or approval in setting up a business. We do not provide legal advice, including advice concerning the correct interpretation of legislation. Therefore, we cannot advise you regarding the viability or legality of a business idea. It is up to you to obtain your own business or legal advice.
  
Kind regards,
 
Licensing Officer

There you have it - Bitcoin is "Money's Worth" even if it isn't "Money" therefor any site operating in or from the UK still needs a license.

If you are betting with or investing in a UK based site you need to be aware that they could be shutdown and take your money with them.

If you run or are plan on running such a site - you need to lawyer up or start filling in the paperwork. I had a look at the fees, it is not cheap, it is not pretty.

Bitcoin online gambling is also under the same regulations as fiat online gambling in most european industrial countries, not just the UK.
And as you mentioned it almost always comes down to the fact that bitcoin is money's worth and therefore it makes no difference.
In fact you could gamble with anything that could be sold for money and you would need a license.

While I think that does make sense, I feel like there should be some sort of global online gambling commision which makes online gambling laws for all countries that are part of it.
This would make the gambling law a lot better for casino owners and law enforcers since at the moment pretty much any type of online gambling is a grey zone unless you literally buy a license in every country in the world.
Such a global online gambling commision could also set a fixed tax agreed on by its members, collect it and distribute it fairly to the countries.(depending on how much profit has been made from people from which country)

I hope this will happen some day but I sadly don't see it coming anytime soon since gambling seems to be a taboo to governments and media.(besides the 50% house edge state lottery which is there to "protect" people)
Gambling is a HUGE market, a LOT of people gamble, it's a human urge so in the long run the governments must agree on some kind of law since online gambling is a global market.

It did have some affect on bitcoin sites. Directbet and Fairlay seems to have blocked UK based IP's already .

blocking IP's of some site is like fighting with wind mills. in world of dynamis DNS, cheap VPS and anonymous domain, almost nothing can stop you..

While this is true it will still certainly make some people from the UK not play due to them either not wanting to go through the hassle of getting a foreign IP or them simply being scared of law enforcement.
It's kind of like locking your bike. While most people will not steal it because it's too much hassle due to it being locked, if somebody really wants to steal it they can still do it very easily.
Making something harder to do will stop a lot of people from doing it even if it wouldn't be hard to do it anyways.

[stonehedge]

At the end of the day, the bitcoin betting sites are unregulated and closed books.  The established betting companies probably don't like their ability to bypass the regulations they have to comply with.

Directbet was (probably partially) hosted on servers based in England until recently even though they claim they are based in Costa Rica.  That was asking for trouble imho.  Even Costa Rica is starting to slowly regulate gambling now.  There will always be safe havens though.

EDIT:  For clarity, the UK gambling commission makes it clear that online gaming sites hosted in the UK MUST have a full online gambling license.  Directbet had servers hosted in a datacentre in Maidenhead.

[tonyq]

I don't think Fairlay are based in Britain, and yet they've excluded UK IP addresses.
I doubt  Cloudbet, Nitrogen or Anonibet have implemented blocks yet.
How about all the casinos and poker sites?....Have they had the same request?

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Is DirectBet really a UK site? I had no idea, us Brits just expect everything good to not be British lol.
The UK doesn't normally produce anything that's good quality especially seeing as though bitcoin gambling sites are kind of pioneering in the sense that there are only maybe 10 that are of high quality.
So Michelle @ DirectBet can you confirm if you guys are UK based?

[sherbyspark]

Is DirectBet really a UK site? I had no idea, us Brits just expect everything good to not be British lol.
The UK doesn't normally produce anything that's good quality especially seeing as though bitcoin gambling sites are kind of pioneering in the sense that there are only maybe 10 that are of high quality.
So Michelle @ DirectBet can you confirm if you guys are UK based?

A lot of people said that their servers are based in the UK, so that might be the reason. But if I was them, I would probably move out of the country so as to continue having a large customer base. Maybe they might take some time to see how much of the business is affected and then make necessary changes.

[arallmuus]

A lot of people said that their servers are based in the UK, so that might be the reason. But if I was them, I would probably move out of the country so as to continue having a large customer base. Maybe they might take some time to see how much of the business is affected and then make necessary changes.

Another reason would be that they are taking all the precautions needed as I believe they are not a regulated sportsbook which means that they are taking precautions by complyng to all the rules to make themselves "safe" from it . Basically this will be just the same case like PrimeDice doesnt accept deposits from US based players anymore despite that they are not hosted in the US.

[Wharf]

Since October 2014 its now required to obtain license not only when you have servers on UK soil but also if you have UK gamblers. Thus BitDice closed gambling for UK users about 6 month ago.

Out of interest, what would actually happen if you decided to continue to accept UK IPs on offshore servers without a UK gambling license?

[GannickusX]

Since October 2014 its now required to obtain license not only when you have servers on UK soil but also if you have UK gamblers. Thus BitDice closed gambling for UK users about 6 month ago.

Out of interest, what would actually happen if you decided to continue to accept UK IPs on offshore servers without a UK gambling license?

You can imagine that nothing good but probably depending on how big your casino is, anyways dont you need a license pretty much anywhere to run a casino?

[arallmuus]

Out of interest, what would actually happen if you decided to continue to accept UK IPs on offshore servers without a UK gambling license?

Legal actions will be taken no doubt about that and if a legal actions is taken on these unlicensed gambling sites than it will get them much more lost then their decision to stop accepting bets from the UK based players.
Basically unlicensed means illegal and everything that illegal will be seized down also that affiliates that promotes an unlicensed gambling sites are also at risk by this point if they UK gambling comission decided to take legal actions

[Wharf]

But how does the UK gambling commission actually take legal action against a hypothetical offshore site which refuses to acknowledge its existence?

Would the site not need to be in the UK for any legal action to actually be imposed?

[WhatTheGox]

I see a lot of people here saying that Bitcoin Gambling sites in the UK do not need to be licensed because "Bitcoin is not money".

The Gambling Commission takes a different view:

Dear ButterflySammy,
 
Thank you for your email.
 
You mention that HMRC doesn’t recognise Bitcoin as currency, which is fine.
 
However, when it comes to gambling, the Gambling Act 2005 defines gambling as the ability to win prizes of money, or money’s worth.
 
While bitcoin can’t be classed as money, per se, it certainly counts as money’s worth.
 
The Gambling Commission receives a number of requests from people seeking advice or approval in setting up a business. We do not provide legal advice, including advice concerning the correct interpretation of legislation. Therefore, we cannot advise you regarding the viability or legality of a business idea. It is up to you to obtain your own business or legal advice.
 
Kind regards,
 
Licensing Officer

There you have it - Bitcoin is "Money's Worth" even if it isn't "Money" therefor any site operating in or from the UK still needs a license.

If you are betting with or investing in a UK based site you need to be aware that they could be shutdown and take your money with them.

If you run or are plan on running such a site - you need to lawyer up or start filling in the paperwork. I had a look at the fees, it is not cheap, it is not pretty.

The way they are wording stuff at the moment it looks like they would have a hard time chasing up people.  This might change within a short space of time so better watch out what happens.  If you are running a small opperation personally i wouldnt panic.

[Bizmark13]

Why is a casino's license significant to you when you want to gamble with bitcoin? I don't think that bitcoin casinos take steps towards being licensed. Provably fair gambling is the way to go. As of the legality, in most regions and countries it isn't illegal to gamble with bitcoin because of the lack of laws about it. Until this changes, we're probably not going to see many bitcoin casinos being blocked.

Most don't, but there is at least one Bitcoin casino which is licensed. BitDice.me recently registered as a legally incorporated and licensed gambling operation in Costa Rica:

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1090627

However, the benefits for end users might not be that great because if the site gets hacked or otherwise loses its funds, then the site's liabilities will shift from that of the owner to the corporation:

Any lawyer worth his salt will probably tell you to have a third party agent incorporate a casino on your behalf. Incorporating does very little for the actual user, it does help the owner establish a banking connection/trust and cash out though.

I think incorporation actually reduces the protection of investors/gamblers as the liaibility is shifted from operator to company. That being said it's a wise decision to incorporate but I can't personally see any reason for it benefiting users. Then again, I'm not a lawyer.

This means that when you incorporate a company/business in this way, in most cases, the liabilities will be shifted from the owners onto the corporation itself. So if/when the site gets hacked, or something similar causes the site to lose money then the owners would not be responsible, the corporation itself will need to bear the losses.

The owners would have this protection while still keeping the benefits of getting to keep any profits that are not reinvested into their company.

Assuming their security is strong enough to prevent people with malicious intent from stealing from the site, and assuming the owners are acting in an honest manner, then it will most likely have no visible effect on players/investors.

Out of interest, what would actually happen if you decided to continue to accept UK IPs on offshore servers without a UK gambling license?

Legal actions will be taken no doubt about that and if a legal actions is taken on these unlicensed gambling sites than it will get them much more lost then their decision to stop accepting bets from the UK based players.
Basically unlicensed means illegal and everything that illegal will be seized down also that affiliates that promotes an unlicensed gambling sites are also at risk by this point if they UK gambling comission decided to take legal actions

I found the post below from an earlier thread. The info is a bit old and deals with fiat-denominated online gambling sites but if you agree with the OP's position that it doesn't matter whether a site uses BTC or fiat, then it's probably worth reading (emphasis not mine):

Any country with legal online gambling should be fine, UK could be one place.

This is completely false.

Seems there's a lot of misinformation and basic misunderstandings here. Whenever I see this topic come up in the non-BTC gambling world, I see the same vague and incorrect suggestions over and over.

Just because online gambling is legal in a country does not mean you can host an unlicensed site there. The UK has a very strict licensing regiment with master licenses costing around £500,000 per year. Hosting unlicensed games on a server there is a quick way to get booted by your hosting company who is required to comply with UK law.

It is, however, legal to serve games from offshore into the UK, if they are legal in the country where they're hosted. The key here under UK law is "where the bet is struck". The bet is considered to be struck where the server is. Since the UK abides by international trade laws (which the US refuses to sign onto), they have to allow their citizens to strike bets in another country so long as those bets are legal under that country's law.

Now here's where it gets interesting. There is no jurisdiction on earth where it's legal to host an online gambling site without a government-issued license, except for Costa Rica. Costa Rica requires something called a "data-processing license" but it is not strictly a license (more a way of incorporating) and is not subject to gambling regulation as such. The reason for this is that, for historical reasons and thanks to a byzantine Napoleonic legal structure, Costa Rica contradicts the rest of the world (except, interestingly, the United States) and considers the bet to be struck on the user's computer, not where the servers are. So they see nothing wrong with hosting a casino there. What you're not allowed to do in Costa Rica, if you host there, is take Costa Rican players. Because then you'd be breaking their law by running an on-shore casino. Funky, right?

It is certainly illegal to host a gaming site in Ireland without an Irish gaming license (this came into force several years ago; before that Ireland had no specific legislation on it and it wasn't prosecuted).

However, the vagaries of where a bet is "struck" leave open a number of interesting loopholes for the clever site operator. For example, some countries which require a license to host gambling have various amnesties in their laws to attract business, which allow back-office operations to be run there, even downloads to be served there, so long as the bet isn't struck there. Some will consider the location of the RNG to be where the bet is struck, and others consider it to be where the player connects to the game server (assuming those are two different machines). Hosting in Costa Rica is enormously expensive, the bandwidth is terrible and the service is nonexistent. So many companies host their primary website there and serve the games elsewhere.

The ONLY way you can be sure that what you're doing in a particular country is legal is to hire a gambling attorney in that country to advise you and, if possible, put an opinion on it in writing. The safest route for a casino not willing to pay for a governmental license is to get incorporated in Costa Rica for $1000 or so and serve the games and RNG from there; and then put your non-gambling stuff like videos, graphics, sounds, etc. on faster servers wherever you want. I like http://nohostsland.com for finding servers in odd parts of the world. But DO NOT consider sticking gambling services on one of these VPS's, or on a server anywhere in the EU without a proper license from the country you're serving from.

If you have the money, some countries which offer packaged license/hosting/banking arrangements are: Malta, Curacao, the Isle of Man, Kahnawake (First Nations, Canada), Belize, Antigua; and on the top shelf, the UK, Australia, France and Italy (primarily for domestic markets).

Also be aware that the UK classifies two types of offshore casinos: Those licensed in the EU or with a country whose gaming regime is recognized by the EU (e.g. Curacao), and those not recognized (e.g. Costa Rica). While it is not illegal for a Costa Rica casino to take UK players, it is illegal in the UK for Costa Rica based casinos to advertise in print, on radio or television. Again, lots of rules, so the best advice? Lawyer up and don't take advice that could land you in jail from anonymous people on the internet.

[boopy265420]

I take it as positive that UK based online casinos will need a license to operate in UK and its territory.This will make the casinos owners more responsible and also will help to reduce fraudulent activities.These online casinos must be operated under some rules and regulations  to be more trustworthy.

[newcripto]

As long as any online casino accept bitcoin they should not have been forced to get registered with UK Gambling commission.This registration requirement should be for fiat casinos.May be some of the casinos begin to deal just with Bitcoins to skip the reg requirement.Things are going to be more complicated than ever with online business and gambling sites.

[Havelivi]

If that is necessary for any casino they need a license to run their business from UK than i think they must follow the country rules to stay in safe environment to provide the uninterrupted services, any gambling casino when if he will accept only bitcoin as payment method than that is not a problem for them and i hope it can be helpful to build trust.   

[groozh]

The UK Gambling Commission has written to online sportsbooks, bookmakers and casinos telling them to block anyone with a UK IP address.
Already, Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin betting exchange have implemented this today.
It's outrageous.

Are Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin UK based?

If not, why are they blocking UK IPs?

I don't understand why everyone seems to be taking orders from the UK Gambling Commission all of a sudden without any explanation to end users.

Any more details on this would be appreciated.

Regardless of where the bookies are based, its customers are British. That's why they're only blocking UK IPs, and bitcoin sites are only following the other foreign bookmakers (188bet, sbobet, pinnacle) in leaving Britain since the new gambling laws require them to register under the UKGamingCommission's licensing system (and pay a hefty tax). The idea behind this is to protect British consumers apparently, though anyone who knows the first thing about betting knows you cannot win using British bookmakers alone. And I'd wager (no pun intnded) that there are fifa levels of corruption going on behind the scenes

[Wharf]

The UK Gambling Commission has written to online sportsbooks, bookmakers and casinos telling them to block anyone with a UK IP address.
Already, Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin betting exchange have implemented this today.
It's outrageous.

Are Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin UK based?

If not, why are they blocking UK IPs?

I don't understand why everyone seems to be taking orders from the UK Gambling Commission all of a sudden without any explanation to end users.

Any more details on this would be appreciated.

Regardless of where the bookies are based, its customers are British. That's why they're only blocking UK IPs, and bitcoin sites are only following the other foreign bookmakers (188bet, sbobet, pinnacle) in leaving Britain since the new gambling laws require them to register under the UKGamingCommission's licensing system (and pay a hefty tax). The idea behind this is to protect British consumers apparently, though anyone who knows the first thing about betting knows you cannot win using British bookmakers alone. And I'd wager (no pun intnded) that there are fifa levels of corruption going on behind the scenes

My point is, why are any sites blocking British IPs just because the UK gambling commission said so? Especially if they are outside of the UK, what can a UK gambling commission really do about it? How do you even prove that;

1) A cryptocurrency is equivalent to money's worth
2) An IP is equivalent to a location
3) An anonymous transaction is linked to a person in the UK and a gambling related server
4) A gambling commission in the UK has control over a server outside of the UK

None of these things have been held up in court and, especially if you are outside of the UK, how do you even get summoned to a UK court of law?

Basically, if sites start blocking IPs any time any random commission decides so then there is no point to using cryptocurrency. If anyone, from any side, honestly thinks that banning UK IPs resolves a problem here then they are seriously short-sighted. It will just censor the mainstream from cryptocurrency, and other commissions from other countries will soon start telling other sites to do the same with other services.

Ultimately the only ones who will continue to use cryptocurrency will be using VPNs without the site's consent and causing more problems down the line. Frankly the fact that no one is seriously challenging this is disastrous to the survival of cryptocurrency. It has set the trend for the future. Cryptocurrency sites are happy to provide censorship of their services at the first sign of fear without even really questioning it.

There is no longer any point in using them.

[tonyq]

The UK Gambling Commission has written to online sportsbooks, bookmakers and casinos telling them to block anyone with a UK IP address.
Already, Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin betting exchange have implemented this today.
It's outrageous.

Are Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin UK based?

If not, why are they blocking UK IPs?

I don't understand why everyone seems to be taking orders from the UK Gambling Commission all of a sudden without any explanation to end users.

Any more details on this would be appreciated.

Regardless of where the bookies are based, its customers are British. That's why they're only blocking UK IPs, and bitcoin sites are only following the other foreign bookmakers (188bet, sbobet, pinnacle) in leaving Britain since the new gambling laws require them to register under the UKGamingCommission's licensing system (and pay a hefty tax). The idea behind this is to protect British consumers apparently, though anyone who knows the first thing about betting knows you cannot win using British bookmakers alone. And I'd wager (no pun intnded) that there are fifa levels of corruption going on behind the scenes

My point is, why are any sites blocking British IPs just because the UK gambling commission said so? Especially if they are outside of the UK, what can a UK gambling commission really do about it? How do you even prove that;

1) A cryptocurrency is equivalent to money's worth
2) An IP is equivalent to a location
3) An anonymous transaction is linked to a person in the UK and a gambling related server
4) A gambling commission in the UK has control over a server outside of the UK

None of these things have been held up in court and, especially if you are outside of the UK, how do you even get summoned to a UK court of law?

Basically, if sites start blocking IPs any time any random commission decides so then there is no point to using cryptocurrency. If anyone, from any side, honestly thinks that banning UK IPs resolves a problem here then they are seriously short-sighted. It will just censor the mainstream from cryptocurrency, and other commissions from other countries will soon start telling other sites to do the same with other services.

Ultimately the only ones who will continue to use cryptocurrency will be using VPNs without the site's consent and causing more problems down the line. Frankly the fact that no one is seriously challenging this is disastrous to the survival of cryptocurrency. It has set the trend for the future. Cryptocurrency sites are happy to provide censorship of their services at the first sign of fear without even really questioning it.

There is no longer any point in using them.

A great post my friend and you echo many of my thoughts on this issue.
Just why have Direct Bet and Fairlay allowed the UK Gambling commission to order them to block my IP?
And why have they done as they've been told so quickly?
I find it astonishing.
I can only think that the British government have been leaned on by the big bookmakers here in my country.
The rise of crypto currency betting obviously has them worried.

[sherbyspark]

I take it as positive that UK based online casinos will need a license to operate in UK and its territory.This will make the casinos owners more responsible and also will help to reduce fraudulent activities.These online casinos must be operated under some rules and regulations  to be more trustworthy.

Yes that is certainly true , but it will also be bad for bitcoin unless any of the licensed casinos start accepting it.
The current laws would restrict bitcoin accepting gambling sites from growing. I also feel the gambling section on the forum proves that it is what finds one of the biggest use for bitcoin(even though it wasn't intended for it) and restricting that face will have a negative impact on bitcoin to some extent.

[groozh]

The UK Gambling Commission has written to online sportsbooks, bookmakers and casinos telling them to block anyone with a UK IP address.
Already, Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin betting exchange have implemented this today.
It's outrageous.

Are Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin UK based?

If not, why are they blocking UK IPs?

I don't understand why everyone seems to be taking orders from the UK Gambling Commission all of a sudden without any explanation to end users.

Any more details on this would be appreciated.

Regardless of where the bookies are based, its customers are British. That's why they're only blocking UK IPs, and bitcoin sites are only following the other foreign bookmakers (188bet, sbobet, pinnacle) in leaving Britain since the new gambling laws require them to register under the UKGamingCommission's licensing system (and pay a hefty tax). The idea behind this is to protect British consumers apparently, though anyone who knows the first thing about betting knows you cannot win using British bookmakers alone. And I'd wager (no pun intnded) that there are fifa levels of corruption going on behind the scenes

My point is, why are any sites blocking British IPs just because the UK gambling commission said so? Especially if they are outside of the UK, what can a UK gambling commission really do about it? How do you even prove that;

1) A cryptocurrency is equivalent to money's worth
2) An IP is equivalent to a location
3) An anonymous transaction is linked to a person in the UK and a gambling related server
4) A gambling commission in the UK has control over a server outside of the UK

None of these things have been held up in court and, especially if you are outside of the UK, how do you even get summoned to a UK court of law?

Basically, if sites start blocking IPs any time any random commission decides so then there is no point to using cryptocurrency. If anyone, from any side, honestly thinks that banning UK IPs resolves a problem here then they are seriously short-sighted. It will just censor the mainstream from cryptocurrency, and other commissions from other countries will soon start telling other sites to do the same with other services.

Ultimately the only ones who will continue to use cryptocurrency will be using VPNs without the site's consent and causing more problems down the line. Frankly the fact that no one is seriously challenging this is disastrous to the survival of cryptocurrency. It has set the trend for the future. Cryptocurrency sites are happy to provide censorship of their services at the first sign of fear without even really questioning it.

There is no longer any point in using them.

You're absolutely right. The thing is, although there will be very little repercussion for directbetif they continued serving Brit IPs, I think they see it as not worth the hassle. The UKGC perhaps has them a little bit scared and they're protecting their business. Their lack of comment on the issue just confirms this. It's a slippery slope once bitcoin, a decentralized currency, starts to be ruled over like this

[tonyq]

It's a slippery slope once bitcoin, a decentralized currency, starts to be ruled over like this

Indeed it is!

For what it's worth, allegedly, you can use the Tor browser from the UK and get around the problem.
 

[eerygarden]

What gets my goat about this the most is that they requst a fee for a license using threats of imprisonment if an operator does not comply and in turn offer no protection to the punters whatsoever. The protection to the operator is that the police will leave them in peace to operate.

Bitcoin may appeal a lot to anarchists and libertarians but it does nothing, nor will it ever, for reducing socially dominant human beings. Its a jungle.

[nikona]

Bitcoin may appeal a lot to anarchists and libertarians but it does nothing, nor will it ever, for reducing socially dominant human beings. Its a jungle.

Bitcoin allows you to gamble and access these sites if they are illegal in your country. For example US players can't play much poker online but can do so with bitcoin. Thats the biggest reason people use it as you are not restricted to laws based in your country that may not allow you to access these sites or games .

[eerygarden]

Bitcoin may appeal a lot to anarchists and libertarians but it does nothing, nor will it ever, for reducing socially dominant human beings. Its a jungle.

Bitcoin allows you to gamble and access these sites if they are illegal in your country. For example US players can't play much poker online but can do so with bitcoin. Thats the biggest reason people use it as you are not restricted to laws based in your country that may not allow you to access these sites or games .

You make a good point. Even in spite of laws people can choose to gamble with bitcoin regardless. But don't offshore US sportsbooks operate for US customers in the likes of CostaRica? Isn't that similar?

I would love to set up my own little online gambling site. If it was cheap and easy to set up a dice site and set the maximum bet to 0.0001 bitcoin I think I would love to see how that operates. Obviously it might not be too popular due to the low bet  but it would be nice if me, Joe bloggs, could do such a thing, increasing the bet limits as confidence grew. However, the likes of me isn't going to do that because my UK government would disapprove and possibly ruin my life if I did.

I wish they loved me more.

[Wharf]

The UK Gambling Commission has written to online sportsbooks, bookmakers and casinos telling them to block anyone with a UK IP address.
Already, Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin betting exchange have implemented this today.
It's outrageous.

Are Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin UK based?

If not, why are they blocking UK IPs?

I don't understand why everyone seems to be taking orders from the UK Gambling Commission all of a sudden without any explanation to end users.

Any more details on this would be appreciated.

Regardless of where the bookies are based, its customers are British. That's why they're only blocking UK IPs, and bitcoin sites are only following the other foreign bookmakers (188bet, sbobet, pinnacle) in leaving Britain since the new gambling laws require them to register under the UKGamingCommission's licensing system (and pay a hefty tax). The idea behind this is to protect British consumers apparently, though anyone who knows the first thing about betting knows you cannot win using British bookmakers alone. And I'd wager (no pun intnded) that there are fifa levels of corruption going on behind the scenes

My point is, why are any sites blocking British IPs just because the UK gambling commission said so? Especially if they are outside of the UK, what can a UK gambling commission really do about it? How do you even prove that;

1) A cryptocurrency is equivalent to money's worth
2) An IP is equivalent to a location
3) An anonymous transaction is linked to a person in the UK and a gambling related server
4) A gambling commission in the UK has control over a server outside of the UK

None of these things have been held up in court and, especially if you are outside of the UK, how do you even get summoned to a UK court of law?

Basically, if sites start blocking IPs any time any random commission decides so then there is no point to using cryptocurrency. If anyone, from any side, honestly thinks that banning UK IPs resolves a problem here then they are seriously short-sighted. It will just censor the mainstream from cryptocurrency, and other commissions from other countries will soon start telling other sites to do the same with other services.

Ultimately the only ones who will continue to use cryptocurrency will be using VPNs without the site's consent and causing more problems down the line. Frankly the fact that no one is seriously challenging this is disastrous to the survival of cryptocurrency. It has set the trend for the future. Cryptocurrency sites are happy to provide censorship of their services at the first sign of fear without even really questioning it.

There is no longer any point in using them.

You're absolutely right. The thing is, although there will be very little repercussion for directbetif they continued serving Brit IPs, I think they see it as not worth the hassle. The UKGC perhaps has them a little bit scared and they're protecting their business. Their lack of comment on the issue just confirms this. It's a slippery slope once bitcoin, a decentralized currency, starts to be ruled over like this

It may appear to be less hassle short term but trust me they are losing their business long term if they are this unprincipled.

[tonyq]

Taken from

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/FAQs/Online-gambling/Why-has-the-Gambling-Commission-written-to-Bitcoin-operators.aspx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Why has the Gambling Commission written to Bitcoin operators?

 
We are concerned about illegal gambling operators providing facilities for gambling to consumers in Great Britain. An operator needs to be licensed by the Gambling Commission regardless of where they are located in the world, if they provide facilities for gambling to consumers in Great Britain. We have written to a number of website operators offering prizes of money or money’s worth to gamblers in Britain that are not licensed by us. Bitcoin comes under the category of money’s worth and therefore any operator offering this facility to gamblers in Britain requires an operating licence or they are acting illegally.
Page last reviewed: June 2015

[fox19891989]

Bitcoin may appeal a lot to anarchists and libertarians but it does nothing, nor will it ever, for reducing socially dominant human beings. Its a jungle.

Bitcoin allows you to gamble and access these sites if they are illegal in your country. For example US players can't play much poker online but can do so with bitcoin. Thats the biggest reason people use it as you are not restricted to laws based in your country that may not allow you to access these sites or games .

Yes, but some casinos and dice site like primedice bans US players, but there is nothing can prevent a gambler, he/she can use the VPN or proxy to bet, it is easy to solve this kind of question.

For me, bitcoin gambling is good cos fast deposit and withdrawal, and very low withdrawal fees compared to fiat withdrawal

[arallmuus]

It may appear to be less hassle short term but trust me they are losing their business long term if they are this unprincipled.

They are not losing all of it I would say. Basically if a gambler is fond enough with a site, it will not be much hassle for him to access it through a proxy. However as a unlicensed gambling site, the risk are far greater than keep on serving business for the UK customer .
It will be much of a nightmare for you because you might see the legal feds knocking on your front the next morning and this would be the reason that most unlicensed sites has taken the safety precautions rather than facing the law in the future


It seems FortuneJack has follow the other fellow gambling sites as well

We have added Great Britain into our list of blocked regions because online gambling is illegal there. In the past we had blocked several US states for the same reason. Although, we are working with gambling commission to resolve the issue as soon as possible and meet the country regulations.

[tonyq]

I have had to pull my site www.bitcoinpunter.com today after the UK Gambling Commission contacted me to inform me I was breaking the law by advertising unlicenced betting sites and leaving myself open to prosecution.

Advertising unlawful gambling is a  criminal offence under section 330  of the Gambling Act 2005 (the Act).    
The Commission regulates gambling in Great Britain and has the power to prosecute offences under the Act.

 

[arallmuus]

I have had to pull my site www.bitcoinpunter.com today after the UK Gambling Commission contacted me to inform me I was breaking the law by advertising unlicenced betting sites and leaving myself open to prosecution.

Advertising unlawful gambling is a  criminal offence under section 330  of the Gambling Act 2005 (the Act).    
The Commission regulates gambling in Great Britain and has the power to prosecute offences under the Act.

 

This seems pretty akward for me, are you from UK ? if you are from UK then this seems to be a huge steps taken by the UK gambling commision to stop the unlicensed bookies. Never crossed my mind that they would go this far by even taking down website that promotes unlicensed bookie.
If you are not from UK, I dont have any idea on how they will drag you to court for advertising an unlicensed bookies considering that we are all strangers in the internet. It will be just a waste of time dealing with each individual for this case

P.S : did they contact you via email?

[tonyq]

I am in the UK.
Yes, they contacted me via email with a Cease and Desist  letter attached in PDF format.
They certainly mean business.
I think a war on bitcoin gambling has begun.

[arallmuus]

I am in the UK.

I wondered if they are taking down all websites that promote an unlicensed bookies or that only restricted to the UK. if the UK gambling commision is pulling this huge step, we might see the US gambling commision to pull some similar stunt as well soon, then again the whole word of illegal gambling will be pretty much limited with all this restriction

I think a war on bitcoin gambling has begun.

It isnt a war on BTC gambling but rather a war to the unlicensed gambling website, Im sure they did the same thing to FIAT gambling site as well. This would put on more pressure to the unlicensed gambling website to get a license which would give the commision an extra income.
Well even playing at a licensed gambling website isnt a guarantee either that we wont be cheated or having the operator to run with our funds

[eerygarden]

The government are taking bitcoin seriously. The next phase is to get licensed bitcoin gambling sites. Integration in to already licensed fiat sites comes after.

[sherbyspark]

I am in the UK.
Yes, they contacted me via email with a Cease and Desist  letter attached in PDF format.
They certainly mean business.
I think a war on bitcoin gambling has begun.

I would like to see what happens incase one of the gambling sites(not in UK) does not agree to their request. I really doubt they will do anything, but would still be nice to see. If their threats work and are serious, I see US implementing a similar law soon.

[eerygarden]

I am in the UK.
Yes, they contacted me via email with a Cease and Desist  letter attached in PDF format.
They certainly mean business.
I think a war on bitcoin gambling has begun.

I would like to see what happens incase one of the gambling sites(not in UK) does not agree to their request. I really doubt they will do anything, but would still be nice to see. If their threats work and are serious, I see US implementing a similar law soon.

I get a different impression. It seems to me they are out in force and such a 'criminal' would be attacked at the jugular.

[Wharf]

Taken from

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/FAQs/Online-gambling/Why-has-the-Gambling-Commission-written-to-Bitcoin-operators.aspx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Why has the Gambling Commission written to Bitcoin operators?

 
We are concerned about illegal gambling operators providing facilities for gambling to consumers in Great Britain. An operator needs to be licensed by the Gambling Commission regardless of where they are located in the world, if they provide facilities for gambling to consumers in Great Britain. We have written to a number of website operators offering prizes of money or money’s worth to gamblers in Britain that are not licensed by us. Bitcoin comes under the category of money’s worth and therefore any operator offering this facility to gamblers in Britain requires an operating licence or they are acting illegally.
Page last reviewed: June 2015

They mention nothing about Litecoin, Dogecoin, etc. and areas in the UK outside of Great Britain... the whole thing has no proper clarification about what exactly is legal and what is not.

It may appear to be less hassle short term but trust me they are losing their business long term if they are this unprincipled.

They are not losing all of it I would say. Basically if a gambler is fond enough with a site, it will not be much hassle for him to access it through a proxy. However as a unlicensed gambling site, the risk are far greater than keep on serving business for the UK customer .
It will be much of a nightmare for you because you might see the legal feds knocking on your front the next morning and this would be the reason that most unlicensed sites has taken the safety precautions rather than facing the law in the future

Why would a gambler continue to bet with a site that still hasn't offered a full explanation of the situation?

If they are willing to ban one country's IP with no explanation, they will continue to do the same with other countries sooner or later.

Their business is finished.

I would like to see what happens incase one of the gambling sites(not in UK) does not agree to their request.

Exactly.

[arallmuus]

They are not losing all of it I would say. Basically if a gambler is fond enough with a site, it will not be much hassle for him to access it through a proxy. However as a unlicensed gambling site, the risk are far greater than keep on serving business for the UK customer .
It will be much of a nightmare for you because you might see the legal feds knocking on your front the next morning and this would be the reason that most unlicensed sites has taken the safety precautions rather than facing the law in the future

Why would a gambler continue to bet with a site that still hasn't offered a full explanation of the situation?

If they are willing to ban one country's IP with no explanation, they will continue to do the same with other countries sooner or later.

Their business is finished.

Actually there is already an explanation for all of this , it will be because they are unlicensed and there is a risk that they might be taken down. So if you ask them, they will explain to you that online gambling is illegal there and so on rather than telling you the truth about that they are unlicensed and not banning the UK IP will harm their business

Not every country has a great influence towards online gambling, which in this case UK has some influence I would say that most sites has obey their request. If only the request coming from some country in the middle of Africa, I doubt that they will follow the request

[Submotion]

The UK Gambling Commission has written to online sportsbooks, bookmakers and casinos telling them to block anyone with a UK IP address.
Already, Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin betting exchange have implemented this today.
It's outrageous.

I can get on Directbet and all other sites just fine.

The UK Gambling Commission has written to online sportsbooks, bookmakers and casinos telling them to block anyone with a UK IP address.
Already, Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin betting exchange have implemented this today.
It's outrageous.

Are Direct Bet and the Fairlay Bitcoin UK based?

If not, why are they blocking UK IPs?

I don't understand why everyone seems to be taking orders from the UK Gambling Commission all of a sudden without any explanation to end users.

Any more details on this would be appreciated.

If they're providing a service to the UK then I think they still have to comply with their laws, otherwise anyone could just set up a casion based on some island somewhere but continue to operate their site in the UK market.

[srgkrgkj]

im not sure about UK laws on gambling but im sure only the laws of the country your operating from apply so they are regulated by the one main country and international relations does the rest ??

[Coinbanker]

free vpn

problem solved

[eerygarden]

im not sure about UK laws on gambling but im sure only the laws of the country your operating from apply so they are regulated by the one main country and international relations does the rest ??

Not as of December 2014. Legislation came in to force in the UK where there is a new point of consumption tax of 15% payable by it's licensees.

[tsoPANos]

free vpn

problem solved

That's good, but you're still at risk with a VPN. They log your ip and disclose it upon government's request.

[eerygarden]

free vpn

problem solved

That's good, but you're still at risk with a VPN. They log your ip and disclose it upon government's request.

I think it's the licensees that the governments will go after, not the gamblers.

[vennali]

free vpn

problem solved

That's good, but you're still at risk with a VPN. They log your ip and disclose it upon government's request.

That is usually not the case. The government will never go that far to track your activity online and the VPN's probably wouldn't provide the data as well. And By the time you gamble and withdraw , youd be long gone. You can also just use TOR .

[tonyq]

Not content with shutting my website down, the UK Gambling Commission has now seen to it that I cannot bet with my bitcoin at the following (so far)

Direct Bet
Fairlay
Nitrogen Sports
BetBtc

Where ever you are in the world, enjoy your freedom.....ours here in Britain is slowly vanishing.
 

[yoloer808]

Honestly I don't know who would browse bitcoin gambling sites in this day and age without a VPN. It costs so little, yet is so important when it comes to privacy.

[casinobitco]

BitcoinRush.io and CasinoBitco.in have unfortunately closed business to UK members.

[tonyq]

BitcoinRush.io and CasinoBitco.in have unfortunately closed business to UK members.

It's getting worse.
 

[eerygarden]

Not content with shutting my website down, the UK Gambling Commission has now seen to it that I cannot bet with my bitcoin at the following (so far)

Direct Bet
Fairlay
Nitrogen Sports
BetBtc

Where ever you are in the world, enjoy your freedom.....ours here in Britain is slowly vanishing.
 

Did you say this as those websites have chosen to restrict your access from you UK IP address or did the Gambling Commission communicate something to you directly?

[eerygarden]

BitcoinRush.io and CasinoBitco.in have unfortunately closed business to UK members.

It's getting worse.
 

I think the saying goes, "They are out in force".

[vennali]

Didn't expect Nitrogen sports to be affected by this. Seems the threat must be real serious. I hope the other countries don't follow the same path.

[tonyq]

Not content with shutting my website down, the UK Gambling Commission has now seen to it that I cannot bet with my bitcoin at the following (so far)

Direct Bet
Fairlay
Nitrogen Sports
BetBtc

Where ever you are in the world, enjoy your freedom.....ours here in Britain is slowly vanishing.
 

Did you say this as those websites have chosen to restrict your access from you UK IP address or did the Gambling Commission communicate something to you directly?

I was contacted by them.
They sent me a 'Cease and Desist' order setting out in no uncertain terms,  that I was open to being prosecuted  if the site wasn't taken down swiftly.
And the sites above have chosen to block  my IP address at the request of the Gambling Commission.

[eerygarden]

Not content with shutting my website down, the UK Gambling Commission has now seen to it that I cannot bet with my bitcoin at the following (so far)

Direct Bet
Fairlay
Nitrogen Sports
BetBtc

Where ever you are in the world, enjoy your freedom.....ours here in Britain is slowly vanishing.
 

Did you say this as those websites have chosen to restrict your access from you UK IP address or did the Gambling Commission communicate something to you directly?

I was contacted by them.
They sent me a 'Cease and Desist' order setting out in no uncertain terms,  that I was open to being prosecuted  if the site wasn't taken down swiftly.
And the sites above have chosen to block  my IP address at the request of the Gambling Commission.

They all blocked your IP address specificly?! Jeezus thats crazy. Are you on a static IP? I know that you could work around it with a VPN but that seems quite a message.

[tonyq]

Not just my IP.....EVERYONE in the UK's IP address.

[eerygarden]

Thanks for clearing that up.

[rz20]

free vpn

problem solved

That's good, but you're still at risk with a VPN. They log your ip and disclose it upon government's request.

You won't have any problem with a vpn of other country that don't save logs.

[tonyq]

Not content with shutting my website down, the UK Gambling Commission has now seen to it that I cannot bet with my bitcoin at the following (so far)

Direct Bet
Fairlay
Nitrogen Sports
BetBtc

Where ever you are in the world, enjoy your freedom.....ours here in Britain is slowly vanishing.
 

Now Anonibet is blocking us UK punters.
Just Cloudbet left.
This is a nightmare.
 

[shulio]

Not content with shutting my website down, the UK Gambling Commission has now seen to it that I cannot bet with my bitcoin at the following (so far)

Direct Bet
Fairlay
Nitrogen Sports
BetBtc

Where ever you are in the world, enjoy your freedom.....ours here in Britain is slowly vanishing.
 

Now Anonibet is blocking us UK punters.
Just Cloudbet left.
This is a nightmare.
 

Whats the reason for you of not getting yourself a VPN? you can get a very cheap VPN just to bypass this IP block easily and you will still be able to play at your favourite website. Also you can always use a public wifi to access your wallet so that the UK gambling commission could not track your activity

[tonyq]

Not content with shutting my website down, the UK Gambling Commission has now seen to it that I cannot bet with my bitcoin at the following (so far)

Direct Bet
Fairlay
Nitrogen Sports
BetBtc

Where ever you are in the world, enjoy your freedom.....ours here in Britain is slowly vanishing.
 

Now Anonibet is blocking us UK punters.
Just Cloudbet left.
This is a nightmare.
 

Whats the reason for you of not getting yourself a VPN? you can get a very cheap VPN just to bypass this IP block easily and you will still be able to play at your favourite website. Also you can always use a public wifi to access your wallet so that the UK gambling commission could not track your activity

I could do that indeed but why on earth am I being made to feel like a criminal for wanting to bet with bitcoin??
That is the issue.
And how long before the American Gambling Commissions  go down the same route?
Surely it won't just stop at us in Britain.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

I'm not happy about this, regulatory rules are annoying as fuck to be honest. Because of this Nitrogen Sports have now stopped accepting bets from the UK. They were one of my favourite BTC accepting bookies.
Does anybody know if I use Tor or a VPN would I still be able to bet there?

I don't see why there are so many bull shit rules implemented on us, what reason do the UK have for doing this?

[tonyq]

what reason do the UK have for doing this?

How much do you think the UK Government rake in every year from the likes of Hills, Corals, Ladbrokes, Bet365, Paddy Power etc?
And how much will they rake in from bitcoin sportbooks  present and future?
I think that may answer your question.

[tonyq]

By the way LFC, I've sent you a personal message.

[Rating Place]

.
Does anybody know if I use Tor or a VPN would I still be able to bet there?

yes, you can play there.

[eerygarden]

what reason do the UK have for doing this?

How much do you think the UK Government rake in every year from the likes of Hills, Corals, Ladbrokes, Bet365, Paddy Power etc?
And how much will they rake in from bitcoin sportbooks  present and future?
I think that may answer your question.

Yep! It's purely so they can get their hands on their cut. No doubt they would provide a different answer if you were to ask them though.

[fox19891989]

I'm not happy about this, regulatory rules are annoying as fuck to be honest. Because of this Nitrogen Sports have now stopped accepting bets from the UK. They were one of my favourite BTC accepting bookies.
Does anybody know if I use Tor or a VPN would I still be able to bet there?

I don't see why there are so many bull shit rules implemented on us, what reason do the UK have for doing this?

Cos UK defines bitcoin as not money, if they define bitcoin as money, I think those unlisenced bitcoin casinos can't afford the license, I don't know the price, but I am sure it is extremely expensive, only big companies can afford that.

So they do not allow bitcoin gambling sites cos they don't have UK license, but you have best online casinos, bet365, williamhill, ladbrokes, so UK gov hope you can bet on licensed casinos, but not those unlicensed ones, to avoid scam cases, and they don't get taxes from unlicensed casinos.

[arallmuus]

why on earth am I being made to feel like a criminal for wanting to bet with bitcoin??

You are not being made to feel like a criminal for wanting to bet with BTC , it is not about betting with BTC or FIAT just that UK residents isnt allowed to bet at an unlicensed gambling sites and unfortunate most of BTC gambling sites are unlicensed.
These unlicensed gambling sites has no other option than to comply with the regulation otherwise there is a chance that their business might be taken down or that I suspect there is some serious threat from the UK gambling commision judging from how quick all of this site comply to them

And how long before the American Gambling Commissions  go down the same route?

Soon I guess, with UK gambling commision going hard for all this illegal gambling activities then I suspect the US will be heading the same road soon. These aggresive move is to prevent a random guy from opening an illegal gambling sites out of nowhere and think that he could got away from the regulation

[sherbyspark]

what reason do the UK have for doing this?

How much do you think the UK Government rake in every year from the likes of Hills, Corals, Ladbrokes, Bet365, Paddy Power etc?
And how much will they rake in from bitcoin sportbooks  present and future?
I think that may answer your question.

Yep! It's purely so they can get their hands on their cut. No doubt they would provide a different answer if you were to ask them though.

That does seem to be the likely case. It is primarily the sports books which got the email to shut down, and not other gambling sites. And because of this I don't see US following the same steps, unless they want to go after every gambling site to shut them down.

[arallmuus]

It is primarily the sports books which got the email to shut down, and not other gambling sites. And because of this I don't see US following the same steps, unless they want to go after every gambling site to shut them down.

It seems that it is not only restricted to an unlicensed sportsbook. FortuneJack has shut their doors to UK gamblers as well

We have added Great Britain into our list of blocked regions because online gambling is illegal there. In the past we had blocked several US states for the same reason. Although, we are working with gambling commission to resolve the issue as soon as possible and meet the country regulations.

For the bolded part, it seems like they are looking into purchasing a license there so that they could keep on providing their service for the UK gamblers or that it is an excuses from them. It will be just a matter of time I guess before the UK gambling commission hit another top gambling sites.
There isnt any other non sportsbook gambling sites that announce things about shutting their doors down for the UK gambler apart from FortuneJack so I suspect this could be a precautions moves from FortuneJack or either than they are based on UK

[tonyq]

Quote from: FortuneJack on June 17, 2015, 08:16:08 AM

We have added Great Britain into our list of blocked regions because online gambling is illegal there

I think that is technically incorrect.....we can do as much online gambling as we want from the UK as long as the outfits we bet with have a licence to accept British bets....whether they be fiat or bitcoin.

[tonyq]

This is an extract from the letter the UK Gambling Commission sent me when they ordered me to close down my portal:

There is nothing intrinsically unlawful about betting or gaming using digital crypto-currencies. It is clear, however, that Bitcoin (and other crypto-currencies) fall within the definition of “money or money’s worth” as defined in the Act. As a result, a person offering facilities for gambling using Bitcoin requires a licence as it is an offence under section 33 of the Act to provide facilities for gambling without the appropriate licence authorising that activity.

[tonyq]

It went on to say;

Section 33 of the Act (as amended by the Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Act 2014) applies to the provision of facilities for remote gambling if at least one piece of remote gambling equipment used in the provision of the facilities is situated in Great Britain, or if no such equipment is situated in Great Britain but the facilities are used there. The provision of facilities for gambling to persons in the UK through some of the websites that appear on your portal is or is likely to be unlawful, because these services are not licensed by the Commission.

[arallmuus]

Quote from: FortuneJack on June 17, 2015, 08:16:08 AM

We have added Great Britain into our list of blocked regions because online gambling is illegal there

I think that is technically incorrect.....we can do as much online gambling as we want from the UK as long as the outfits we bet with have a licence to accept British bets....whether they be fiat or bitcoin.

This is of course just an excuse from FortuneJack as it will be bad publicity for them to say this

Sorry, we are an unlicensed gambling sites and the UK gambling commision had threaten us to stop accepting players from the UK and it might harm our business

Some sites will even give a lazy excuses by saying "due to some regulation issue" which is untrue of course. There is no further clarification regarding this from FortuneJack as there are no other non sportsbook site that follow the same road.
Also that there is no complain at some thread like PrimeDice or the other site so it seems that either UK gambling commission hasnt yet send some mail to the other sites or that the other sites is not complying to the UK gambling commission

It is clear, however, that Bitcoin (and other crypto-currencies) fall within the definition of “money or money’s worth” as defined in the Act.

This is new for me, I thought UK classified BTC as goods instead of "money" or currency

Section 33 of the Act (as amended by the Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Act 2014) applies to the provision of facilities for remote gambling if at least one piece of remote gambling equipment used in the provision of the facilities is situated in Great Britain, or if no such equipment is situated in Great Britain but the facilities are used there.

Its kinda hard for me to comprehend this , does this actually means that in short that either that the site is located in UK and/or atleast it is hosted at the UK? . If this is so then it is such a coincidence for all the sportsbook that has closed down their service for the UK gamblers to be either located there or hosted there

EDIT : got some shed of lights from a UK resident that it means that either it is hosted there or someone accessing it from there

[tonyq]

It has become a very grey area now.
I really don't know what to make of it.
 

[Slark]

ahh, internet has no borders..why should somebody host his site in UK, if they had such regulations? for bitcoin sites, I don't see any issue at all here..fortunately.)

It did have some affect on bitcoin sites. Directbet and Fairlay seems to have blocked UK based IP's already .

So it will only this kind of effect negative, services will block IP people from UK and that is it? Any good side of this decision? I would imagine that casinos would like to obtain that license and provide legal and honest service and not just block people from accessing their service.

[arallmuus]

It has become a very grey area now.
I really don't know what to make of it.
 

Not a grey area anymore. For me I do think that the UK gambling commission has made it very clear that any site that is accessed within the UK is considered to be illegal unless they have a license.
Makes me think that every site here is exposed to a threat because it could be accessed within UK and I bet the commission could be monitoring every single IP access since they make it clear to go on a hunt for the unlicensed gambling sites

It will be just a matter of time before we see more sites to announce that they are no longer offering their service to the UK gamblers. High chance that the reason for them to do this massive hunt will be that to make gamblers shift their bet to a license gambling sites which of course in the same time gain them more ( I do think there is a yearly tax to pay based on the sites revenue , no? )

Concerning this high activity from the commision, I doubt that it will be safe to access an unlicensed sites through a VPN as well. As there is a risk that the commission could be knocking your front door the next morning. I'd restrain myself betting in an unlicensed gambling sites in the meantime If I were you

[groozh]

Now that it seems clear all the bitcoin bookies will be refusing to serve UK IPs, I'm waiting for the day when the licensed bookmakers will offer bitcoin betting (alongside their usual service) with absolutely none of the benefits that bitcoin gambling has been able to offer up to now. Shite odds, no privacy, and potential 'scams' (which are unheard of with the main btc books, though unlicenced) replaced with the everyday scam of using mainstream bookmakers. Gambling will be just a 'fun' way to lose your money, as you can probaly see from the way it's presented in the barrage of adverts if you live in the UK. If nothing else, at least Ray Winstone will have steady work for the rest of his life 

[eerygarden]

Concerning this high activity from the commision, I doubt that it will be safe to access an unlicensed sites through a VPN as well. As there is a risk that the commission could be knocking your front door the next morning.

I think that is unlikely. Never say never though, many people got sued for downloading from Napster back in the day (in the US). In my opinion though they will go after the operators. It is a money making exercise.

I think the answer to all this is decentralisation yet again.

I've been searching 'decentralised gambling'. The most interesting one that popped up was BitFrog, which is working on decentralised poker.

I can picture a decentralised sports exchange with smart contracts grabbing information from official websites and settling with timestamps or voiding if returned false. I've no idea who's going to make it though. Some wonderful tech geek hopefully.

I'm not quite sure how decentralised casino games would work, but I can wonder. Take roulette as an example with 300 million people playing on the same table. There should be enough opposing bets to match a high percentage of bets. You might need to return partial bets if they can't all match, seems a bit of a headache. And of course you would need to make the odds fair so increase 1 number from 35/1 to 36/1, or just remove the zero from the table. Can you spin the same wheel decentralised? I have no idea. I'm just an idiot with an imagination.

[Wharf]

Not content with shutting my website down, the UK Gambling Commission has now seen to it that I cannot bet with my bitcoin at the following (so far)

Direct Bet
Fairlay
Nitrogen Sports
BetBtc

Where ever you are in the world, enjoy your freedom.....ours here in Britain is slowly vanishing.
 

Now Anonibet is blocking us UK punters.
Just Cloudbet left.
This is a nightmare.
 

Whats the reason for you of not getting yourself a VPN? you can get a very cheap VPN just to bypass this IP block easily and you will still be able to play at your favourite website. Also you can always use a public wifi to access your wallet so that the UK gambling commission could not track your activity

I could do that indeed but why on earth am I being made to feel like a criminal for wanting to bet with bitcoin??
That is the issue.
And how long before the American Gambling Commissions  go down the same route?
Surely it won't just stop at us in Britain.

Yes, that is the main issue here. I can't even bet with Doge, which is essentially monopoly money, without going out of my way and wondering if the government are tracking me as a criminal.

I'd actually argue that Doge is not equivalent to traditional money's worth because 1 Doge is approximately equal to 0.0001243 GBP and can't even be converted directly due to needing BTC/USD conversions first.

It was a deeply sad day when betting sites no longer accepted UK IPs to bet with crypto.

If anyone in the gambling commission genuinely believes they are protecting UK gamblers here then they are severely mistaken.

The government may think they are gaining short term but long term it has negative consequences for everyone involved.

[fox19891989]

Do you know the price of an UK license?

I am pretty sure it is extremely expensive so that those casinos can't afford and won't buy the license, I know in Phillipphines first cagayan gambling license costs 50000 USD to get the license, and other expenses are excluded from that license. Those best casinos have it, like bodog Asian, m88 casino, and so forth.

Now that Philipphines' license is expensive, UK gambling license must be more expensive than it, maybe costs 1 million USD? Best sportsbooks and casinos like WilliamHill, bet365, ladbrokes have UK license, which are all public companies.

[vennali]

Do you know the price of an UK license?

I am pretty sure it is extremely expensive so that those casinos can't afford and won't buy the license, I know in Phillipphines first cagayan gambling license costs 50000 USD to get the license, and other expenses are excluded from that license. Those best casinos have it, like bodog Asian, m88 casino, and so forth.

Now that Philipphines' license is expensive, UK gambling license must be more expensive than it, maybe costs 1 million USD? Best sportsbooks and casinos like WilliamHill, bet365, ladbrokes have UK license, which are all public companies.

It is definitely going to be a big amount which would probably surpass their revenue as most of the bitcoin
casinos have major competitors.

I did some searching and found some details, but it varies a lot and there is also an annual fees.

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/FAQs/Getting-a-licence/what-are-the-total-costs.aspx

http://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-get-an-online-gambling-license

Most of the bitcoin casinos probably don't see a massive revenue just from UK customers, and can probably bank on the use of TOR  than spend that amount on gambling licenses(which in future could become a problem for other countries as well )

[fox19891989]

Do you know the price of an UK license?

I am pretty sure it is extremely expensive so that those casinos can't afford and won't buy the license, I know in Phillipphines first cagayan gambling license costs 50000 USD to get the license, and other expenses are excluded from that license. Those best casinos have it, like bodog Asian, m88 casino, and so forth.

Now that Philipphines' license is expensive, UK gambling license must be more expensive than it, maybe costs 1 million USD? Best sportsbooks and casinos like WilliamHill, bet365, ladbrokes have UK license, which are all public companies.

It is definitely going to be a big amount which would probably surpass their revenue as most of the bitcoin
casinos have major competitors.

I did some searching and found some details, but it varies a lot and there is also an annual fees.

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/FAQs/Getting-a-licence/what-are-the-total-costs.aspx

http://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-get-an-online-gambling-license

Most of the bitcoin casinos probably don't see a massive revenue just from UK customers, and can probably bank on the use of TOR  than spend that amount on gambling licenses(which in future could become a problem for other countries as well )

You are right, thanks for your great links, it seems that casinos need to pay over several million dollars to get the UK gambling license according to the second link(my estimation is roughly correct), it is extremely expensive, and no btc casinos or seldom casinos can afford it.

[vennali]

You are right, thanks for your great links, it seems that casinos need to pay over several million dollars to get the UK gambling license according to the second link(my estimation is roughly correct), it is extremely expensive, and no btc casinos or seldom casinos can afford it.

It actually got me wondering that how do big sportsbooks like Bet365 manage to pay that amount only for UK , specially when it also involves annual fees to be paid by them

[fox19891989]

You are right, thanks for your great links, it seems that casinos need to pay over several million dollars to get the UK gambling license according to the second link(my estimation is roughly correct), it is extremely expensive, and no btc casinos or seldom casinos can afford it.

It actually got me wondering that how do big sportsbooks like Bet365 manage to pay that amount only for UK , specially when it also involves annual fees to be paid by them

Yeah, wondering that too. IMO should be over 10 million USD to pay the license per year(I am not sure how many licenses bet365 has), but their profits are the best in the world, the license money is a piece of a cake compared to profits.

I remember the revenue of bet 365 is 400 million GBP(read from wikipedia), it is very very unbelievable profit cos the profit of bet365 is even higher than some Africa countries' GDP.

[groozh]

You are right, thanks for your great links, it seems that casinos need to pay over several million dollars to get the UK gambling license according to the second link(my estimation is roughly correct), it is extremely expensive, and no btc casinos or seldom casinos can afford it.

It actually got me wondering that how do big sportsbooks like Bet365 manage to pay that amount only for UK , specially when it also involves annual fees to be paid by them

Because bet365 (and all other major UK bookmakers) make a truckload of money from offering poor odds and limiting players. This is what's so appalling about the loss of bitcoin sportsbook operators - it means the average British bettor will lose money in the long run. And even if the btc bookies were to buy the license, they would have to use these same tactics just to break even

[BetMoose]

Wanted to chime in here, Chris Sullivan also sent us the letter on June 15th, 2015. We've replied back asking him to clarify as we do not use any 'financial institutions' to process any UK-based transactions, to which he sent another pdf email with the 'money's worth' response today.

We've emailed him back with our statement that we do not officially service any UK-based residents as our deposits are anonymous and we do not monitor IPs. We have also told him we would consider paying for the license if he accepted BTC, and to please let us know the price of said license as we operate exclusively in bitcoin and do not have sterling for him.

Last time he/his agency took a month to reply. I'll keep you guys posted.

Adam

[sherbyspark]

Wanted to chime in here, Chris Sullivan also sent us the letter on June 15th, 2015. We've replied back asking him to clarify as we do not use any 'financial institutions' to process any UK-based transactions, to which he sent another pdf email with the 'money's worth' response today.

We've emailed him back with our statement that we do not officially service any UK-based residents as our deposits are anonymous and we do not monitor IPs. We have also told him we would consider paying for the license if he accepted BTC, and to please let us know the price of said license as we operate exclusively in bitcoin and do not have sterling for him.

Last time he/his agency took a month to reply. I'll keep you guys posted.

Adam

With them taking a month to reply, doesn't really look like its a serious issue to them . It might just be a warning to atleast have half of the sites stop accepting UK customers which indeed have.

[eerygarden]

Wanted to chime in here, Chris Sullivan also sent us the letter on June 15th, 2015. We've replied back asking him to clarify as we do not use any 'financial institutions' to process any UK-based transactions, to which he sent another pdf email with the 'money's worth' response today.

We've emailed him back with our statement that we do not officially service any UK-based residents as our deposits are anonymous and we do not monitor IPs. We have also told him we would consider paying for the license if he accepted BTC, and to please let us know the price of said license as we operate exclusively in bitcoin and do not have sterling for him.

Last time he/his agency took a month to reply. I'll keep you guys posted.

Adam

With them taking a month to reply, doesn't really look like its a serious issue to them . It might just be a warning to atleast have half of the sites stop accepting UK customers which indeed have.

I would wait to see what their reply is first. They act as an authority in many minds and whilst they may not be able to carry out any threats in the bitcoin world, they most probably can in the fiat world. I am keen to see what their response to Adam is. Thanks for asking the question Adam.

[popcorn1]

bitcoin is classed as an asset in the UK..
so your gambling for assets ..You will need a license plus all details of your clients
loads of reasons why
money laundering
tax on profits
being nosey sods
tracking your every move..
but you wonder why no one wants to set up small businesses in the UK

if your worth billions none of the above apply NO TAX

[sherbyspark]

Wanted to chime in here, Chris Sullivan also sent us the letter on June 15th, 2015. We've replied back asking him to clarify as we do not use any 'financial institutions' to process any UK-based transactions, to which he sent another pdf email with the 'money's worth' response today.

We've emailed him back with our statement that we do not officially service any UK-based residents as our deposits are anonymous and we do not monitor IPs. We have also told him we would consider paying for the license if he accepted BTC, and to please let us know the price of said license as we operate exclusively in bitcoin and do not have sterling for him.

Last time he/his agency took a month to reply. I'll keep you guys posted.

Adam

With them taking a month to reply, doesn't really look like its a serious issue to them . It might just be a warning to atleast have half of the sites stop accepting UK customers which indeed have.

I would wait to see what their reply is first. They act as an authority in many minds and whilst they may not be able to carry out any threats in the bitcoin world, they most probably can in the fiat world. I am keen to see what their response to Adam is. Thanks for asking the question Adam.

Yes, they should definitely wait for the reply. I didn't mean they shouldn't and ignore future threats from those people. Just that most of the other site have given up on this and have accepted to their demands of not accepting UK customers unless they obtain a license , I feel they should have responded with questions instead of just giving up on UK customers.

[eerygarden]

Wanted to chime in here, Chris Sullivan also sent us the letter on June 15th, 2015. We've replied back asking him to clarify as we do not use any 'financial institutions' to process any UK-based transactions, to which he sent another pdf email with the 'money's worth' response today.

We've emailed him back with our statement that we do not officially service any UK-based residents as our deposits are anonymous and we do not monitor IPs. We have also told him we would consider paying for the license if he accepted BTC, and to please let us know the price of said license as we operate exclusively in bitcoin and do not have sterling for him.

Last time he/his agency took a month to reply. I'll keep you guys posted.

Adam

With them taking a month to reply, doesn't really look like its a serious issue to them . It might just be a warning to atleast have half of the sites stop accepting UK customers which indeed have.

I would wait to see what their reply is first. They act as an authority in many minds and whilst they may not be able to carry out any threats in the bitcoin world, they most probably can in the fiat world. I am keen to see what their response to Adam is. Thanks for asking the question Adam.

Yes, they should definitely wait for the reply. I didn't mean they shouldn't and ignore future threats from those people. Just that most of the other site have given up on this and have accepted to their demands of not accepting UK customers unless they obtain a license , I feel they should have responded with questions instead of just giving up on UK customers.

I don't look at it as giving up on UK customers, more like giving in to threats. But yes. Asking questions is good. However, fear of fines in the meantime is understandable.

[BetMoose]

Got a reply today:

In your email you indicate that you believe that we have written to you in error because; you do not

have any hosting in the UK; you do not market or advertise to UK residents; none of your team

resides in the UK; and you do not accept any financial or Bitcoin transactions from UK residents. In

relation to your final point, you state that: ‘bitcoin transactions are anonymous and we have no idea

where they come from. As such, we cannot simply turn the switch off from accepting UK-residents'

deposits as we do not know they are UK residents.’

I have below addressed the points you have raised in the hope that this will resolve matters.

You should note that section 33 of the Gambling Act 2005, which makes it a criminal offence to

provide facilities for gambling without an operating licence authorising that activity, applies if remote

gambling equipment is located in Great Britain, or if the facilities are capable of being used in Great

Britain. Consequently, the fact that you do not have any hosting in the UK, do not market or advertise

to UK residents, and that your team do not reside in the UK, does not mean that a licence is not

required.

In response to the final point, it is our view that even if bitcoin transactions are completely anonymous

it is still possible for you to, and you should, implement means to identify if a player using bitcoin is

playing from a UK registered IP address and restrict such access based on the user’s IP address.

We note that you state that you do not accept any financial or bitcoin transactions from UK residents

which indicates to us that you are already able to identify the location of customers from their IP

addresses.

If gambling sites are successfully blocked to those in Great Britain trying to access them, it will

amount to ceasing activity. However, we are aware that IP blocking technology is by no means fool

proof and may be circumvented. As a result IP address blocking alone may not be sufficient to

ensure that consumers in Great Britain are blocked from gambling on the website. To reassure

yourself that you are not at risk of committing an offence, even if you implement IP blocking, you may

wish to consider what other mechanisms you could use in order to prevent the use of your facilities to

gamble by consumers in Great Britain, for example by asking for the country of location at customer

registration.

Details of how you can apply for an operting licence can be found on our website. In answer to your

question, we not accept payment in bitcoin.

If you take immediate steps to remedy the situation, this may avoid the need for the Commission to

take the matter further.

Victoria Square House

Victoria Square

Birmingham B2 4BP

T 0121 230 6666

F 0121 230 6720

www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk

Should you have any queries in relation to the content of this letter please contact me via email at

c.sullivan@gamblingcommission.gov.uk or by telephone on 0121 230 6686.

[sherbyspark]

Pretty much the standard reply . I suppose would have to be followed by IP blocking  . Asking country on registration will always have work arounds and would be useless .

If you take immediate steps to remedy the situation, this may avoid the need for the Commission to

take the matter further.

Perhaps you could drop another message asking about this .

[tonyq]

If you take immediate steps to remedy the situation, this may avoid the need for the Commission to
take the matter further

I got that exact wording in my 'cease and desist' order from them.
They made it very clear in their letter to me that they were going to prosecute me if I didn't close www.bitcoinpunter.com down immediately.
All I was doing was placing affiliate banners on it!
We live under a very oppressive government here in the UK.

By the way....anyone want to buy my domain?
I don't want a lot for it.

[BetMoose]

We received another reply. In short, IP blocking is the only solution this "commission" would find 'satisfactory'. I also noticed it's been two different people back and forth, they are colleagues as described in their letters:
Chris Pryor
Senior Officer - Disclosure

Chris Sullivan
Manager - Remote Investigations

Anyway, this is unfortunate for UK users as we don't have any alternatives; we've asked him before if we can buy his license and he said no because they don't accept Bitcoin. As our operations are 100% bitcoin, it gives us no other choice but to follow the other operators and block UK-based users. We could also 'just do nothing and see what happens' (probably nothing), but from an operations point of view, this is easier and wouldn't keep our dev team up at night worrying to have to move hosting. In terms of the 'threat' if we don't comply, this is what he had to say:

Please set out, in detail, as to why you cannot take implement IP blocking as a means of preventing
users in Great Britain from accessing you site, if this is in fact the case. We again request that you
should take immediate steps to remedy the situation.
We remain of the view that by allowing consumers located in Great Britain to access
[our website] you are potentially committing a criminal offence. If you do not satisfy us that
you have taken reasonable steps to prevent such access, we will pursue other avenues to prevent
the unlicensed activities. This may result in the website no longer being accessible.

We're contemplating adding a custom page for UK users to point them the way of VPNs, I wonder if that would fly.

[eerygarden]

We received another reply. In short, IP blocking is the only solution this "commission" would find 'satisfactory'. I also noticed it's been two different people back and forth, they are colleagues as described in their letters:
Chris Pryor
Senior Officer - Disclosure

Chris Sullivan
Manager - Remote Investigations

Anyway, this is unfortunate for UK users as we don't have any alternatives; we've asked him before if we can buy his license and he said no because they don't accept Bitcoin. As our operations are 100% bitcoin, it gives us no other choice but to follow the other operators and block UK-based users. We could also 'just do nothing and see what happens' (probably nothing), but from an operations point of view, this is easier and wouldn't keep our dev team up at night worrying to have to move hosting. In terms of the 'threat' if we don't comply, this is what he had to say:

Please set out, in detail, as to why you cannot take implement IP blocking as a means of preventing
users in Great Britain from accessing you site, if this is in fact the case. We again request that you
should take immediate steps to remedy the situation.
We remain of the view that by allowing consumers located in Great Britain to access
[our website] you are potentially committing a criminal offence. If you do not satisfy us that
you have taken reasonable steps to prevent such access, we will pursue other avenues to prevent
the unlicensed activities. This may result in the website no longer being accessible.

We're contemplating adding a custom page for UK users to point them the way of VPNs, I wonder if that would fly.

Well what a great big bully it seems that the commission is being.

[arallmuus]

-sinp-

-snip-
 If you do not satisfy us that
you have taken reasonable steps to prevent such access, we will pursue other avenues to prevent
the unlicensed activities. This may result in the website no longer being accessible.

All it needs is a single threat and all site will comply. This is pretty much happened to the other site as well which is logical because it is better to lose a fraction of customer from UK rather than losing the whole business. As for the bolded part, it seems pretty much indicates that the Gambling commision will write a letter to your hosting company to stop hosting your site or could be just DDOSing the site ( which is highly unlikely but still possible )

We're contemplating adding a custom page for UK users to point them the way of VPNs, I wonder if that would fly.

Pretty much unneeded as because VPN is pretty common nowadays to avoid such IP checks (?)

we've asked him before if we can buy his license and he said no because they don't accept Bitcoin

Kinda confusing but If there is an intention to purchase the license, then you could just cash the BTC into FIAT and buy the license anyway why insist on using BTC?

[Stars]

Can somebody explain to me why PrimeDice are still allowing UK players to bet? I'm assuming they found a loophole of some sort.

[Submotion]

Can somebody explain to me why PrimeDice are still allowing UK players to bet? I'm assuming they found a loophole of some sort.

I doubt it, they probably just haven't had any contact from them yet. It seems once they got a letter or email from one specific country they blocked access to that particular nation. Depending on where PD is hosted there's probably not much anyone could do anyway.

[vennali]

Can somebody explain to me why PrimeDice are still allowing UK players to bet? I'm assuming they found a loophole of some sort.

I doubt it, they probably just haven't had any contact from them yet. It seems once they got a letter or email from one specific country they blocked access to that particular nation. Depending on where PD is hosted there's probably not much anyone could do anyway.

From what I recall didn't Primedice close down to UK customers already ?
Did they reopen to UK customers ?

[arallmuus]

Can somebody explain to me why PrimeDice are still allowing UK players to bet? I'm assuming they found a loophole of some sort.

So far the one that is affected with this would only be a site that provide sportsbook betting and only 1 site without sportsbook that is affected ( FortuneJack ) which I speculate could be located in UK and/or hosted in UK therefore there are whole more reason to comply. Apart from that it seems no other "gambling sites" affected with this which leads to another speculation that the UK gambling commision is merely chasing down all these unlicensed sportsbook because it attracts a whole lot more UK player than a non sportsbook gambling site and/or that to force them to purchase the license

I doubt it, they probably just haven't had any contact from them yet.

Seems unlikely. PrimeDice is one of the biggest dice sites at the moment and it is unlikely that they are letting such huge site slips between their eyes

Depending on where PD is hosted there's probably not much anyone could do anyway.

Would love to see whats the next "threat" of this gambling commision if a site doesnt comply

From what I recall didn't Primedice close down to UK customers already ?
Did they reopen to UK customers ?

Oh really? I dont see any announcement from Stunna apart from they closed down their services to the USA based players

[vennali]

From what I recall didn't Primedice close down to UK customers already ?
Did they reopen to UK customers ?

Oh really? I dont see any announcement from Stunna apart from they closed down their services to the USA based players

Ah yeah you are right. I had thought it was UK they had closed down their services to. As for why let them slip through might be because its only a dice site. Weren't all the other sites which received the email from the UK commision , more or less a casino or a sportsbook ?
They might not be targtting dice sites probably because it is not a competitor to any of the gambling sites as dice isn't a standard gambling game offered in fiat based sites.

[arallmuus]

because it is not a competitor to any of the gambling sites as dice isn't a standard gambling game offered in fiat based sites.

If you are saying that they are chasing down "casinos" and not only dice sites then it is probably their intention but then again satoshibet hasnt close down their service to UK players , they couldn't possible slip out satoshibet. Also if you check on their letter that they sent to betmoose (references below)

Got a reply today:

You should note that section 33 of the Gambling Act 2005, which makes it a criminal offence to

provide facilities for gambling without an operating licence authorising that activity, applies if remote

gambling equipment is located in Great Britain, or if the facilities are capable of being used in Great

Britain. -snip-

Consequently, the fact that you do not have any hosting in the UK, do not market or advertise

to UK residents, and that your team do not reside in the UK, does not mean that a licence is not

required.

The first bolded part clearly indicates that means all form of "gambling" that a site offer and dice is one of them , also that PrimeDice is one of the biggest dice sites around so it cant be just slip away from their attention


The second bolded part clearly indicates that they are against every gambling sites without license which means they could / will take an action to all these unlicensed sites


All these indicates they are probably chasing down sportsbook only because most of their source of income comes from all these licensed sportsbook . So blocking all these unlicensed sportsbook will give them more income from tax as the sportsbook ethusiast will switch to a licensed sportsbook and thus generate more income to the sportsbook and more tax for the gambling commission

[BTCBinary]

Governments are now trying to take their part on these type of business.
Europena governments are demanding regulation
This is currently happenining throughout Europe...

[vennali]

because it is not a competitor to any of the gambling sites as dice isn't a standard gambling game offered in fiat based sites.

If you are saying that they are chasing down "casinos" and not only dice sites then it is probably their intention but then again satoshibet hasnt close down their service to UK players , they couldn't possible slip out satoshibet. Also if you check on their letter that they sent to betmoose (references below)

Got a reply today:

You should note that section 33 of the Gambling Act 2005, which makes it a criminal offence to

provide facilities for gambling without an operating licence authorising that activity, applies if remote

gambling equipment is located in Great Britain, or if the facilities are capable of being used in Great

Britain. -snip-

Consequently, the fact that you do not have any hosting in the UK, do not market or advertise

to UK residents, and that your team do not reside in the UK, does not mean that a licence is not

required.

The first bolded part clearly indicates that means all form of "gambling" that a site offer and dice is one of them , also that PrimeDice is one of the biggest dice sites around so it cant be just slip away from their attention


The second bolded part clearly indicates that they are against every gambling sites without license which means they could / will take an action to all these unlicensed sites


All these indicates they are probably chasing down sportsbook only because most of their source of income comes from all these licensed sportsbook . So blocking all these unlicensed sportsbook will give them more income from tax as the sportsbook ethusiast will switch to a licensed sportsbook and thus generate more income to the sportsbook and more tax for the gambling commission

Yes, but either they made this list themselves or got it generated from a gambling company. If its the latter then they might not see those dice sites as a competitor and something that affects their businesss . As a matter of fact there are 3-4 big and purely dice sites and none of them got an email so its probably that they don't consider dice sites to be a competitor.

[Stars]

Can somebody explain to me why PrimeDice are still allowing UK players to bet? I'm assuming they found a loophole of some sort.

So far the one that is affected with this would only be a site that provide sportsbook betting and only 1 site without sportsbook that is affected ( FortuneJack ) which I speculate could be located in UK and/or hosted in UK therefore there are whole more reason to comply. Apart from that it seems no other "gambling sites" affected with this which leads to another speculation that the UK gambling commision is merely chasing down all these unlicensed sportsbook because it attracts a whole lot more UK player than a non sportsbook gambling site and/or that to force them to purchase the license

I doubt it, they probably just haven't had any contact from them yet.

Seems unlikely. PrimeDice is one of the biggest dice sites at the moment and it is unlikely that they are letting such huge site slips between their eyes

Depending on where PD is hosted there's probably not much anyone could do anyway.

Would love to see whats the next "threat" of this gambling commision if a site doesnt comply

From what I recall didn't Primedice close down to UK customers already ?
Did they reopen to UK customers ?

Oh really? I dont see any announcement from Stunna apart from they closed down their services to the USA based players

What about bitdice.me? They are a dice website and still don't allow UK players?

[arallmuus]

-snip-

-snip-As a matter of fact there are 3-4 big and purely dice sites and none of them got an email so its probably that they don't consider dice sites to be a competitor.

This isnt correct at all unless you have the actual proof that these dice sites operator actually receive an email from the UK gambling commission.
Either way it could be that they are not getting any email or that they are refusing the request of the commission or perhaps it will be on y speculation that they are only hunting down unlicensed sportsbook since the UK players is more fond of sportsbook rather than the other form of gambling thus it will generate more "tax" for them either

-snip-

What about bitdice.me? They are a dice website and still don't allow UK players?

AFAIK they are now licensed/legal ( references below ) and I dont have any idea if they still dont provide their service to UK players. Plus that puts up some more suspicion that if the comission sent a letter to bitdice , how could PrimeDice slip away? Apart from the logical thought that Stunna refused to stop providing the service to UK players

Hello guys,

I've got the great news! As of 11/05/2015 BitDice.me has become a registered company on Costa Rica. Now, we are BitDice Casino S.L.R. with registration ID# 3-102-696267.

[Stars]

-snip-

-snip-As a matter of fact there are 3-4 big and purely dice sites and none of them got an email so its probably that they don't consider dice sites to be a competitor.

This isnt correct at all unless you have the actual proof that these dice sites operator actually receive an email from the UK gambling commission.
Either way it could be that they are not getting any email or that they are refusing the request of the commission or perhaps it will be on y speculation that they are only hunting down unlicensed sportsbook since the UK players is more fond of sportsbook rather than the other form of gambling thus it will generate more "tax" for them either

-snip-

What about bitdice.me? They are a dice website and still don't allow UK players?

AFAIK they are now licensed/legal ( references below ) and I dont have any idea if they still dont provide their service to UK players. Plus that puts up some more suspicion that if the comission sent a letter to bitdice , how could PrimeDice slip away? Apart from the logical thought that Stunna refused to stop providing the service to UK players

Hello guys,

I've got the great news! As of 11/05/2015 BitDice.me has become a registered company on Costa Rica. Now, we are BitDice Casino S.L.R. with registration ID# 3-102-696267.

Yeah, I'm not sure then. Because I know 100% UK players can not bet on bitdice.me

[acegilz]

So.. 6 months passed and I can see that nitrogen, cloudbet and directbet already re-started accepting uk players again (from these only nitrogen have licence from what I see)

Others like betbtc, and anonibet remain closed.

My question is, what can happen to these casinos if they just ignore the warning and keep accepting uk players (if they are outside uk...). I mean if they are outside UK what can happen? Shouldn't be UK blocking the websites like some countries already do to piratebay and other sites?

(http://qntra.net/2015/07/uk-gambling-commission-strongarms-some-bitcoin-based-gambling-websites/)

[BetMoose]

So.. 6 months passed and I can see that nitrogen, cloudbet and directbet already re-started accepting uk players again (from these only nitrogen have licence from what I see)

Others like betbtc, and anonibet remain closed.

My question is, what can happen to these casinos if they just ignore the warning and keep accepting uk players (if they are outside uk...). I mean if they are outside UK what can happen? Shouldn't be UK blocking the websites like some countries already do to piratebay and other sites?

(http://qntra.net/2015/07/uk-gambling-commission-strongarms-some-bitcoin-based-gambling-websites/)

Short answer: nothing.

Long answer: Likely domain and/or hosting provider suspensions/blocks. If you feel like experimenting, go for it (make a fake BTC site clearly targeting UK players and report yourself to them), please post your experience. To us (and likely some of the other sites), the hassle and/or potential temporary seizures/suspensions of domain(s) isn't worth it, so the block is easier.

[tonyq]

So.. 6 months passed and I can see that nitrogen, cloudbet and directbet already re-started accepting uk players again (from these only nitrogen have licence from what I see)

I am in the UK and still can't bet with Direct Bet or Nitrogen.....I can with Cloudbet though.

[tiggytomb]

So.. 6 months passed and I can see that nitrogen, cloudbet and directbet already re-started accepting uk players again (from these only nitrogen have licence from what I see)

I am in the UK and still can't bet with Direct Bet or Nitrogen.....I can with Cloudbet though.

Not anymore, I think Cloudbet now ban UK users from using their site, just tried and it says that this jurisdiction is not allowed