UK Gambling Commission says UK based sites need a license!

[tonyq]

By the way LFC, I've sent you a personal message.

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[Peeps Place]

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Does anybody know if I use Tor or a VPN would I still be able to bet there?

yes, you can play there.

[eerygarden]

what reason do the UK have for doing this?

How much do you think the UK Government rake in every year from the likes of Hills, Corals, Ladbrokes, Bet365, Paddy Power etc?
And how much will they rake in from bitcoin sportbooks  present and future?
I think that may answer your question.

Yep! It's purely so they can get their hands on their cut. No doubt they would provide a different answer if you were to ask them though.

[fox19891989]

I'm not happy about this, regulatory rules are annoying as fuck to be honest. Because of this Nitrogen Sports have now stopped accepting bets from the UK. They were one of my favourite BTC accepting bookies.
Does anybody know if I use Tor or a VPN would I still be able to bet there?

I don't see why there are so many bull shit rules implemented on us, what reason do the UK have for doing this?

Cos UK defines bitcoin as not money, if they define bitcoin as money, I think those unlisenced bitcoin casinos can't afford the license, I don't know the price, but I am sure it is extremely expensive, only big companies can afford that.

So they do not allow bitcoin gambling sites cos they don't have UK license, but you have best online casinos, bet365, williamhill, ladbrokes, so UK gov hope you can bet on licensed casinos, but not those unlicensed ones, to avoid scam cases, and they don't get taxes from unlicensed casinos.

[arallmuus]

why on earth am I being made to feel like a criminal for wanting to bet with bitcoin??

You are not being made to feel like a criminal for wanting to bet with BTC , it is not about betting with BTC or FIAT just that UK residents isnt allowed to bet at an unlicensed gambling sites and unfortunate most of BTC gambling sites are unlicensed.
These unlicensed gambling sites has no other option than to comply with the regulation otherwise there is a chance that their business might be taken down or that I suspect there is some serious threat from the UK gambling commision judging from how quick all of this site comply to them

And how long before the American Gambling Commissions  go down the same route?

Soon I guess, with UK gambling commision going hard for all this illegal gambling activities then I suspect the US will be heading the same road soon. These aggresive move is to prevent a random guy from opening an illegal gambling sites out of nowhere and think that he could got away from the regulation

[sherbyspark]

what reason do the UK have for doing this?

How much do you think the UK Government rake in every year from the likes of Hills, Corals, Ladbrokes, Bet365, Paddy Power etc?
And how much will they rake in from bitcoin sportbooks  present and future?
I think that may answer your question.

Yep! It's purely so they can get their hands on their cut. No doubt they would provide a different answer if you were to ask them though.

That does seem to be the likely case. It is primarily the sports books which got the email to shut down, and not other gambling sites. And because of this I don't see US following the same steps, unless they want to go after every gambling site to shut them down.

[arallmuus]

It is primarily the sports books which got the email to shut down, and not other gambling sites. And because of this I don't see US following the same steps, unless they want to go after every gambling site to shut them down.

It seems that it is not only restricted to an unlicensed sportsbook. FortuneJack has shut their doors to UK gamblers as well

We have added Great Britain into our list of blocked regions because online gambling is illegal there. In the past we had blocked several US states for the same reason. Although, we are working with gambling commission to resolve the issue as soon as possible and meet the country regulations.

For the bolded part, it seems like they are looking into purchasing a license there so that they could keep on providing their service for the UK gamblers or that it is an excuses from them. It will be just a matter of time I guess before the UK gambling commission hit another top gambling sites.
There isnt any other non sportsbook gambling sites that announce things about shutting their doors down for the UK gambler apart from FortuneJack so I suspect this could be a precautions moves from FortuneJack or either than they are based on UK

[tonyq]

Quote from: FortuneJack on June 17, 2015, 08:16:08 AM

We have added Great Britain into our list of blocked regions because online gambling is illegal there

I think that is technically incorrect.....we can do as much online gambling as we want from the UK as long as the outfits we bet with have a licence to accept British bets....whether they be fiat or bitcoin.

[tonyq]

This is an extract from the letter the UK Gambling Commission sent me when they ordered me to close down my portal:

There is nothing intrinsically unlawful about betting or gaming using digital crypto-currencies. It is clear, however, that Bitcoin (and other crypto-currencies) fall within the definition of “money or money’s worth” as defined in the Act. As a result, a person offering facilities for gambling using Bitcoin requires a licence as it is an offence under section 33 of the Act to provide facilities for gambling without the appropriate licence authorising that activity.

[tonyq]

It went on to say;

Section 33 of the Act (as amended by the Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Act 2014) applies to the provision of facilities for remote gambling if at least one piece of remote gambling equipment used in the provision of the facilities is situated in Great Britain, or if no such equipment is situated in Great Britain but the facilities are used there. The provision of facilities for gambling to persons in the UK through some of the websites that appear on your portal is or is likely to be unlawful, because these services are not licensed by the Commission.

[arallmuus]

Quote from: FortuneJack on June 17, 2015, 08:16:08 AM

We have added Great Britain into our list of blocked regions because online gambling is illegal there

I think that is technically incorrect.....we can do as much online gambling as we want from the UK as long as the outfits we bet with have a licence to accept British bets....whether they be fiat or bitcoin.

This is of course just an excuse from FortuneJack as it will be bad publicity for them to say this

Sorry, we are an unlicensed gambling sites and the UK gambling commision had threaten us to stop accepting players from the UK and it might harm our business

Some sites will even give a lazy excuses by saying "due to some regulation issue" which is untrue of course. There is no further clarification regarding this from FortuneJack as there are no other non sportsbook site that follow the same road.
Also that there is no complain at some thread like PrimeDice or the other site so it seems that either UK gambling commission hasnt yet send some mail to the other sites or that the other sites is not complying to the UK gambling commission

It is clear, however, that Bitcoin (and other crypto-currencies) fall within the definition of “money or money’s worth” as defined in the Act.

This is new for me, I thought UK classified BTC as goods instead of "money" or currency

Section 33 of the Act (as amended by the Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Act 2014) applies to the provision of facilities for remote gambling if at least one piece of remote gambling equipment used in the provision of the facilities is situated in Great Britain, or if no such equipment is situated in Great Britain but the facilities are used there.

Its kinda hard for me to comprehend this , does this actually means that in short that either that the site is located in UK and/or atleast it is hosted at the UK? . If this is so then it is such a coincidence for all the sportsbook that has closed down their service for the UK gamblers to be either located there or hosted there

EDIT : got some shed of lights from a UK resident that it means that either it is hosted there or someone accessing it from there

[tonyq]

It has become a very grey area now.
I really don't know what to make of it.
 

[Slark]

ahh, internet has no borders..why should somebody host his site in UK, if they had such regulations? for bitcoin sites, I don't see any issue at all here..fortunately.)

It did have some affect on bitcoin sites. Directbet and Fairlay seems to have blocked UK based IP's already .

So it will only this kind of effect negative, services will block IP people from UK and that is it? Any good side of this decision? I would imagine that casinos would like to obtain that license and provide legal and honest service and not just block people from accessing their service.

[arallmuus]

It has become a very grey area now.
I really don't know what to make of it.
 

Not a grey area anymore. For me I do think that the UK gambling commission has made it very clear that any site that is accessed within the UK is considered to be illegal unless they have a license.
Makes me think that every site here is exposed to a threat because it could be accessed within UK and I bet the commission could be monitoring every single IP access since they make it clear to go on a hunt for the unlicensed gambling sites

It will be just a matter of time before we see more sites to announce that they are no longer offering their service to the UK gamblers. High chance that the reason for them to do this massive hunt will be that to make gamblers shift their bet to a license gambling sites which of course in the same time gain them more ( I do think there is a yearly tax to pay based on the sites revenue , no? )

Concerning this high activity from the commision, I doubt that it will be safe to access an unlicensed sites through a VPN as well. As there is a risk that the commission could be knocking your front door the next morning. I'd restrain myself betting in an unlicensed gambling sites in the meantime If I were you

[groozh]

Now that it seems clear all the bitcoin bookies will be refusing to serve UK IPs, I'm waiting for the day when the licensed bookmakers will offer bitcoin betting (alongside their usual service) with absolutely none of the benefits that bitcoin gambling has been able to offer up to now. Shite odds, no privacy, and potential 'scams' (which are unheard of with the main btc books, though unlicenced) replaced with the everyday scam of using mainstream bookmakers. Gambling will be just a 'fun' way to lose your money, as you can probaly see from the way it's presented in the barrage of adverts if you live in the UK. If nothing else, at least Ray Winstone will have steady work for the rest of his life 

[eerygarden]

Concerning this high activity from the commision, I doubt that it will be safe to access an unlicensed sites through a VPN as well. As there is a risk that the commission could be knocking your front door the next morning.

I think that is unlikely. Never say never though, many people got sued for downloading from Napster back in the day (in the US). In my opinion though they will go after the operators. It is a money making exercise.

I think the answer to all this is decentralisation yet again.

I've been searching 'decentralised gambling'. The most interesting one that popped up was BitFrog, which is working on decentralised poker.

I can picture a decentralised sports exchange with smart contracts grabbing information from official websites and settling with timestamps or voiding if returned false. I've no idea who's going to make it though. Some wonderful tech geek hopefully.

I'm not quite sure how decentralised casino games would work, but I can wonder. Take roulette as an example with 300 million people playing on the same table. There should be enough opposing bets to match a high percentage of bets. You might need to return partial bets if they can't all match, seems a bit of a headache. And of course you would need to make the odds fair so increase 1 number from 35/1 to 36/1, or just remove the zero from the table. Can you spin the same wheel decentralised? I have no idea. I'm just an idiot with an imagination.

[Wharf]

Not content with shutting my website down, the UK Gambling Commission has now seen to it that I cannot bet with my bitcoin at the following (so far)

Direct Bet
Fairlay
Nitrogen Sports
BetBtc

Where ever you are in the world, enjoy your freedom.....ours here in Britain is slowly vanishing.
 

Now Anonibet is blocking us UK punters.
Just Cloudbet left.
This is a nightmare.
 

Whats the reason for you of not getting yourself a VPN? you can get a very cheap VPN just to bypass this IP block easily and you will still be able to play at your favourite website. Also you can always use a public wifi to access your wallet so that the UK gambling commission could not track your activity

I could do that indeed but why on earth am I being made to feel like a criminal for wanting to bet with bitcoin??
That is the issue.
And how long before the American Gambling Commissions  go down the same route?
Surely it won't just stop at us in Britain.

Yes, that is the main issue here. I can't even bet with Doge, which is essentially monopoly money, without going out of my way and wondering if the government are tracking me as a criminal.

I'd actually argue that Doge is not equivalent to traditional money's worth because 1 Doge is approximately equal to 0.0001243 GBP and can't even be converted directly due to needing BTC/USD conversions first.

It was a deeply sad day when betting sites no longer accepted UK IPs to bet with crypto.

If anyone in the gambling commission genuinely believes they are protecting UK gamblers here then they are severely mistaken.

The government may think they are gaining short term but long term it has negative consequences for everyone involved.

[fox19891989]

Do you know the price of an UK license?

I am pretty sure it is extremely expensive so that those casinos can't afford and won't buy the license, I know in Phillipphines first cagayan gambling license costs 50000 USD to get the license, and other expenses are excluded from that license. Those best casinos have it, like bodog Asian, m88 casino, and so forth.

Now that Philipphines' license is expensive, UK gambling license must be more expensive than it, maybe costs 1 million USD? Best sportsbooks and casinos like WilliamHill, bet365, ladbrokes have UK license, which are all public companies.

[vennali]

Do you know the price of an UK license?

I am pretty sure it is extremely expensive so that those casinos can't afford and won't buy the license, I know in Phillipphines first cagayan gambling license costs 50000 USD to get the license, and other expenses are excluded from that license. Those best casinos have it, like bodog Asian, m88 casino, and so forth.

Now that Philipphines' license is expensive, UK gambling license must be more expensive than it, maybe costs 1 million USD? Best sportsbooks and casinos like WilliamHill, bet365, ladbrokes have UK license, which are all public companies.

It is definitely going to be a big amount which would probably surpass their revenue as most of the bitcoin
casinos have major competitors.

I did some searching and found some details, but it varies a lot and there is also an annual fees.

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/FAQs/Getting-a-licence/what-are-the-total-costs.aspx

http://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-get-an-online-gambling-license

Most of the bitcoin casinos probably don't see a massive revenue just from UK customers, and can probably bank on the use of TOR  than spend that amount on gambling licenses(which in future could become a problem for other countries as well )

[fox19891989]

Do you know the price of an UK license?

I am pretty sure it is extremely expensive so that those casinos can't afford and won't buy the license, I know in Phillipphines first cagayan gambling license costs 50000 USD to get the license, and other expenses are excluded from that license. Those best casinos have it, like bodog Asian, m88 casino, and so forth.

Now that Philipphines' license is expensive, UK gambling license must be more expensive than it, maybe costs 1 million USD? Best sportsbooks and casinos like WilliamHill, bet365, ladbrokes have UK license, which are all public companies.

It is definitely going to be a big amount which would probably surpass their revenue as most of the bitcoin
casinos have major competitors.

I did some searching and found some details, but it varies a lot and there is also an annual fees.

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/FAQs/Getting-a-licence/what-are-the-total-costs.aspx

http://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-get-an-online-gambling-license

Most of the bitcoin casinos probably don't see a massive revenue just from UK customers, and can probably bank on the use of TOR  than spend that amount on gambling licenses(which in future could become a problem for other countries as well )

You are right, thanks for your great links, it seems that casinos need to pay over several million dollars to get the UK gambling license according to the second link(my estimation is roughly correct), it is extremely expensive, and no btc casinos or seldom casinos can afford it.