real story : how bitcoincasinopro handling issues

[sbrzol]

Here is my email conversation with bitcoincasinopro.

Bitcoincasinopro is the organization that did nothing, they only asked me questions, but  i never got any answer for my questions. You can check it.



In my 2nd email i shared with bitcoincasinopro why i decided to withdraw all my money form bitcoinlivebets.  (”ask them to prove that they have enough BTC to pay out everybody”)



”we was already aware of that situation hint why we only have them(bitcoinlivebets) rated at a C”



During this period I was called a ”mathematical guru”, however in their last email they started to call me an ”asshole” and ”cancer to the industry” despite i have never been disrespectful to them.

I did not invest to bitcoincasinopro, perhaps bitcoinlivebets did ...




At this time  bitcoincasinopro and bitcoinlivebets started to talk about 1 month earlier outpayment instead of on my actual issue which was they had placed a fake bet on my account.
Bitcoinlivebets  gave a transaction address (https://blockchain.info/tx/ec5bc76182707a2f8b45e18bf024cfa5aecef6498229e1d3ac0bca880d2300f2 ) to bitcoincasinopro. This transaction address is not my outpayment but  bitcoincasinopro accepted it despite of i gave them my login details so they were able to check it that in my transaction list the outpayment address does not match this one https://blockchain.info/tx/ec5bc76182707a2f8b45e18bf024cfa5aecef6498229e1d3ac0bca880d2300f2 )

 

Up until this time i believied that somebody using his head would see that i am right.



Bitcoincasinopro closed my case  without notifying/informing me  and published its conslusion on their site  http://www.bitcoincasinopro.com/reviews/bitcoinlivebets-com/29-60-btc-complaint-against-bitcoinlivebets-com-unsubstantiated
I got to know about this post 2.5 days later i had written my last email to them. I dont understand why they didnt feel the necessity to inform me that they closed my case.

This is the lesser issue, the bigger one is that the transaction does not belong to me but it seems it does not matter to nobody.
So after bitcoinlivebets placed a fake bet on my account, they mislead bitcoincasinopro with this transaction too. I can understand that it is the worst scenario for a review-site to admit its mistake after they upgraded someone(bitcoinlivebets) from C to B becaue if they admited this mistake they should/would have to downgrade bitcoinlivebets to D  and bitcoincasinopro’s reputation is more important than a customer issue/the truth.

 

I shared my 1st account details to  bitcoincasinopro but nothing happend.
And there has been lots of questions at the end of one of my emails, to which i have never got any answer.



There is no such transaction in my wallet, but no matter.
7888    17.08.2013, 15:08 Uhr    Einzahlung:     + 1,094120 BTC



9069 28.08.2013, 01:25 Uhr Auszahlung: 1MCLkWa9BU2vEt5vJG9nojJc78N4WN6dZP -26,474000 BTC
My outpayment addres is : 1MCLkWa9BU2vEt5vJG9nojJc78N4WN6dZP
Why does it not match to address which bitcoinlivebets gave to bitcoincasinopro? In the world of bitcoin the sender has to prove that it paid btc to the address of the receiver. But bitcoincasinopro may disregard this fact too.





In this email bitcoincasinopro promised they would evaluate the new information (the false transaction) and would get back to me , but i had to write another 5 emails (during the following 10 days) and the last email in which i said i would open a new topic they answered me at last: ”i am an asshole, cancer to the industry”... 





+ one private message to aksplace :  ”why do not bitcoincasinopro answer my emails? ”







I never talked disrespectfully to bitcoincasinopro as you can see in my earlier emails, but i became an asshole, ”cancer to the industry”  from the ”mathematical guru”.
I do not know why, somebody could explain it?

 

Bitcoincasinopro should have:
-   registered a new account and try to place bet and check the limit (what a suprise: only 3 BTC)
-   looked for another user who was able to place 30 BTC bet in that time interval
-   asked bitcoinlivebets to prove that the  sender address is belong to themselves (but after they upgraded bitcoinlivebets from C to B it was not in their interest to change/downgrade it, what a shame)
-   prior to publishing their conclusion, they should have informed me about it, they should have asked me about the mentioned transaction (if it belongs to me)
-   kept their promise to reply to me so that i didnt have to write  another  emails and wait another 10 days
-   asked bitcoinlivebets why they charged my 1st 2 withdrawals with 0.5% fee and why not the other withdrawal
-   asked bitcoinlivebets why my last 2 withdrawals took more than 53 hours to arrive in my bitcoin wallet
-   asked bitcoinlivebets why there was no announcement (emails to users/ or on their startpage) that they increased the limit from 3 BTC to 30 BTC. (because i suspect that actually there was no limit increasing - you can try it if you register – and only „max bet 3 BTC” disappered from their startpage after i opened this topic on this forum
-   asked other (bitcoin) bookmakers that if it can be real that a gambling site allows to place $3500 on an itf tennis quarter final match on total games  ( it is unreal )

Bitcoincasinopro is  so serious site that my emails bounced back at least 3 times within 4 days (beetween 26-30.09.2013), i started to think if it is wheather accidental or not. 

”child status 100...The e-mail message could not be delivered because the user's mailfolder is full.”

So you can forget about that bitcoincasinopro could protect you/players against such robbing, they can do nothing, so it is time somebody makes a better review-sitte.

It is obviously for a 10 years old child, who could use calculator that here is something wrong.
http://www46.zippyshare.com/d/82456415/1815851/bitcoinkivebetsfakeaccounthistory.xlsx

I never got any answer from bitcoincasinopro and bitcoinlivebets to any of my questions. 
I have nothing to hide, i shared all information/login details/emails.
i hope there is some people out there who knows what actually happend here. 

bitcoinlivebets is an arbheaven (sports arbitrage),  if i could do 5-15% arbs you could too
(if you are interested in i will make a webpage where i will share all arbs beetween bitcoinlivebets and other sites, send me a pm)

[1713507621]

1713507621

[Eternity]

Thanks for the detailed info

[aksplace]

I never talked disrespectfully to bitcoincasinopro as you can see in my earlier emails, but i became an asshole, ”cancer to the industry”  from the ”mathematical guru”.

I think spending 4 days on your case and being fair and transparent at all times and not to get a simple "thank you" was reason enough to stop communication. We don't "owe you" anything. Then even worse to threaten we are in cahoots somehow with this particular sportsbook is offensive! We are not just wasting more valuable time as I could be using this time for other emails and complaints we still have in the inbox.  I took offense I think most would but I guess we could have said it more politely.

Bitcoincasinopro should have:

• registered a new account and try to place bet and check the limit (what a surprise: only 3 BTC)

We already have an account not linked to bitcoincasinopro which was cashed out prior to any conclusion, but to expect me to initially risk 3 btcs prior to finishing the case is just silly!

• looked for another user who was able to place 30 BTC bet in that time interval

Who? Last I knew bitcoin sportsbooks pretty anonymous I have members who wager close to that at Bitbook. We are not going to potentially send a guest into the wolfs den to investigate a wager limit. We clearly asked them and they verified the limits. We gave them the benefit of the doubt on being transparent on this.

• asked bitcoinlivebets to prove that the  sender address is belong to themselves (but after they upgraded bitcoinlivebets from C to B it was not in their interest to change/downgrade it, what a shame)

We only upgraded bitcoinlivebets for agreeing to let us mediate the case and agreed to pay the player if we sided with him. I want to make it clear that this sportsbook is not even an advertiser!

• prior to publishing their conclusion, they should have informed me about it, they should have asked me about the mentioned transaction (if it belongs to me)

We agree on this but clearly it was not the only documents provided to insure such payment. We also received images by logging into the back end of the site. These images was never published per request of us and the book in question. We are extremely busy and I if you think I wanted to get in a internet fight over the decision you crazy.

• kept their promise to reply to me so that i didn't have to write another emails and wait another 10 days

We was in constant contact and frankly at this point way overwhelmed with cases and other things that need done.

• asked bitcoinlivebets why they charged my 1st 2 withdrawals with 0.5% fee and why not the other withdrawal

From time to time companies like blockchain charge a .0005 fee I think a member like Trade Fortress could verify that

• asked bitcoinlivebets why my last 2 withdrawals took more than 53 hours to arrive in my bitcoin wallet

We did but irrelevant as some top notch sites could take this long. We know they need to speed up the payout process and have let them know that also.

• asked bitcoinlivebets why there was no announcement (emails to users/ or on their start page) that they increased the limit from 3 BTC to 30 BTC. (because i suspect that actually there was no limit increasing

It would be nice for organizations to report such changes but this isn't corporate America its an anonymous bookmaker

• you try it if you register – and only „max bet 3 BTC” disappeared from their start page after i opened this topic on this forum

Agree this did raise an eyebrow but without proof beyond a reasonable doubt again is speculation and pointless.

• asked other (bitcoin) bookmakers that if it can be real that a gambling site allows to place $3500 on an itf tennis quarter final match on total games  ( it is unreal )

Bitcoin bookmakers might depending on the action possibly heavy the other way they would be more than willing to offer such.

• Bitcoincasinopro is so serious site that my emails bounced back at least 3 times within 4 days (between 26-30.09.2013), i started to think if it is whether accidental or not

As mentioning earlier we receive a ton of emails daily with a major backlog. I'm sorry I cannot afford to hire 5 staff members full time.

• So you can forget about that bitcoincasinopro could protect you/players against such robbing, they can do nothing, so it is time somebody makes a better review-site.

.

Really? I hope players and sponsors in general agree with the conclusion of this particular case. The site will not rule in favor of a player or company "just because". We are independent from all gambling sites and the complaints to date actually favor none paid advertisers then paying ones. If that's not being transparent and being equal to all I don't know what is! I'm sorry you feel we came up with the wrong conclusion I truly am and I hope you can actually understand to some degree on why I ruled the way I did.

Am I over my head right now? Hell ya I am I had no idea the demand would be this tremendous I don't think I have slept for days. Fortunately some really good veteran posters here have stepped in to write some which has helped us lighten some of the stuff still needing done..  I honestly recommend you stick to this list below sbrzol although its not bullet proof I bet you would never have an issue.. But keep in mind these companies don't have system issues where one could rob them blind for days on end either. So I have a feeling this list wouldn't interest you.

Now with this all said please have some decency I have to many things to do and again apologize for not being able to communicate quicker with you. This is my last and only response have a good evening.

[Zaih]

Bitcoincasinopro is the biggest joke.

Where the fuck is Mem?

[sbrzol]

Bitcoincasinopro should have:

• registered a new account and try to place bet and check the limit (what a surprise: only 3 BTC)

We already have an account not linked to bitcoincasinopro which was cashed out prior to any conclusion, but to expect me to initially risk 3 btcs prior to finishing the case is just silly!

you can check the limit with 0 balance too,  if you try to place a high amount (4-5 digit)  (and you are the arbitrator ? have you ever been placed any bet?  if not please do not work for a review site )

• kept their promise to reply to me so that i didn't have to write another emails and wait another 10 days

We was in constant contact and frankly at this point way overwhelmed with cases and other things that need done.

This is bullshit, you claim that you (and 4 other members) had not got 2 minutes during 10 days  to answer that you closed my case   

• looked for another user who was able to place 30 BTC bet in that time interval

Who? Last I knew bitcoin sportsbooks pretty anonymous I have members who wager close to that at Bitbook. We are not going to potentially send a guest into the wolfs den to investigate a wager limit. We clearly asked them and they verified the limits. We gave them the benefit of the doubt on being transparent on this.

from bitcoinlivebets startpage the "max bet 30 BTC "  still missing .  why ? try to think
bitcoinlivebets removed  "max bet 3 BTC " from its startpage  2,5 weeks ago,   5 minutes later after my 1st post, but 2,5 week was not enough to update it to 30 BTC

• asked bitcoinlivebets to prove that the  sender address is belong to themselves (but after they upgraded bitcoinlivebets from C to B it was not in their interest to change/downgrade it, what a shame)

We only upgraded bitcoinlivebets for agreeing to let us mediate the case and agreed to pay the player if we sided with him. I want to make it clear that this sportsbook is not even an advertiser!

no answer, so it does not matter that the receiver address does not match to my outpayment address
http://www.bitcoincasinopro.com/reviews/bitcoinlivebets-com/29-60-btc-complaint-against-bitcoinlivebets-com-unsubstantiated/
https://blockchain.info/tx/ec5bc76182707a2f8b45e18bf024cfa5aecef6498229e1d3ac0bca880d2300f2

• asked bitcoinlivebets why they charged my 1st 2 withdrawals with 0.5% fee and why not the other withdrawal

From time to time companies like blockchain charge a .0005 fee I think a member like Trade Fortress could verify that

this is not answer for my question,  my last 2 withdrawals should have charged like earlier but they would not.
But i help you, the reason is bitcoinlivebets did it manually after they modified/decreased them to 10% amount only.
You should have asked bitcoinlivebets about fees at this time, and asked about others outpayments transactions.

• asked bitcoinlivebets why my last 2 withdrawals took more than 53 hours to arrive in my bitcoin wallet

We did but irrelevant as some top notch sites could take this long. We know they need to speed up the payout process and have let them know that also.

yeah irrelevant  and not suspicious with all other facts

• asked bitcoinlivebets why there was no announcement (emails to users/ or on their start page) that they increased the limit from 3 BTC to 30 BTC. (because i suspect that actually there was no limit increasing

It would be nice for organizations to report such changes but this isn't corporate America its an anonymous bookmaker

so please ask bitcoinlivebets  to update their startpage to show the max limit is 30 BTC for all users and not only me

• you try it if you register – and only „max bet 3 BTC” disappeared from their start page after i opened this topic on this forum

Agree this did raise an eyebrow but without proof beyond a reasonable doubt again is speculation and pointless.

• asked other (bitcoin) bookmakers that if it can be real that a gambling site allows to place $3500 on an itf tennis quarter final match on total games  ( it is unreal )

Bitcoin bookmakers might depending on the action possibly heavy the other way they would be more than willing to offer such.

,  again, Are you a bettor ? ,have you ever placed any bet ?  Do you know pinnacle sports/sbobet etc ? their limits?
check other (bitcoin) bookmakers limit and you will see that it is impossible to place $3500 on an it tennis quarter final match total games (where the winner gets about $200) at any bookmaker in the world
if you cant see reason it is unreal to place such high amount you have not enough intelligence/betting experience to be an arbitrator in such cases.

[sbrzol]

i almost forget to link the main topic : bitcoinlivebets.com stealing all my winnings 30 BTC
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=300044.60

[fuggedit]

This is strange, why is it such a big deal if you bet on a betting site? Care to explain this OP

[darkmule]

This character seems to be more trouble to deal with than he's worth.  Seemingly incapable of a simple, concise statement of his gripe, he generates an endless stream of rambling, incoherent diatribes querulously complaining about everything under the sun.  I don't blame BCP for not wanting to waste any more time with this gibberish.

[MXRider]

This is strange, why is it such a big deal if you bet on a betting site? Care to explain this OP

OP requested a ~20BTC withdrawal and got only 2BTC. He checked his betting account and noticed that there was a bet added - a losing bet with a stake of 30BTC. There was a 3BTC bet limit for the tennis match so OP is wondering how is it even possible to bet 30BTC.

Bitcoinlivebets has not given a proper answer how can they accept 30BTC bets when even Pinnacle Sports couldn't take that much action for that specific tennis match.

So there are two options:
A) OP did not place the bet and bitcoinlivebets stole 30BTC from him.
B) OP was able to bet 30BTC when the limit was only 3BTC. Bitcoinlivebets accepted the bet (wtf, where is their risk management) when EVERY OTHER betting site would void the bet and return the stake.

A) --> Don't use bitcoinlivebets
B) --> Don't use bitcoinlivebets because they don't have proper risk -/bankroll management. If you are able to make 30BTC bets, what happens to the site when you get lucky and win 200BTC in one day.

[MXRider]

OP: Can you upload those pictures to some other image hosting site like imgur.com. My antivirus is not happy with the current site and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one with this problem.

[Oldminer]

Ok, heres our story (from Bitwincasino)

This sleeze bag PM's me a few days ago offering to review Bitwincasino.com for free.

I forwarded his PM to the owner of the casino (user:Redcoin)

Redcoin contacted him to discuss putting up a review on his site. He then advised he will require 12 BTC to give him a positive review.

After Redcoin refused his extortion demand, Bitcoincasinpro proceeded to reply to someone on this forum regards some videos they had uploaded showing consecutive dice rolls on one of our games (this problem occurred over the space of 1 hour before it was identified, which created a problem with our software. Someone had hacked the dice game and withdrew 150K points to their account, but they were unable to withdraw thanks to security checks in the system). Bitcoincasinpro publicly offered to donate some BTC to the uploader of the videos (implied threat). Redcoin still refused to give in to his demands.

Bitoincasinopro then waited, and when their demand wasnt met he then posted a negative review on his site.

This guy and his site reviews are a joke. PLEASE DO NOT GIVE HIM ANY BTC. He's a conman & you can rest assured his positive reviews were paid for, and as result are not to be trusted.

- Bitwincasino.com

[monbux]

I think the owner of this gambling site, really handled it like an ass.
I would suggest in the future, give it some F-ing patience, this just proves how unprofessional he is.

[b!z]

At Bitcoin Reviewer, we believe it is essential for players to get correct information regarding the sites they play on. Imagine if Wikipedia took bribes to provide users with false information.

In our opinion, any site that does this is acting very unethically. This is completely unacceptable.

[00null]

At Bitcoin Reviewer, we believe it is essential for players to get correct information regarding the sites they play on. Imagine if Wikipedia took bribes to provide users with false information.

In our opinion, any site that does this is acting very unethically. This is completely unacceptable.

FYI, you have a huge PrimeDice banner in your sig

[dooglus]

some videos they had uploaded showing consecutive dice rolls on one of our games (this problem occurred over the space of 1 hour before it was identified, which created a problem with our software

I think you misunderstand.

The videos demonstrated that when your casino is low on funds your software deliberately cheats the player to recoup its losses.

It doesn't matter why the casino is low on funds - whether it's the result of a hack or a player getting lucky - in either case the software will cheat the player to get the money back.  You have admitted this before so why lie about it now and call it a "problem"?

I defy anyone to watch this:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFV_GIc_L2k
and honestly claim that they are watching anything other than obvious and deliberate cheating on the casino's part.

[superresistant]

Why does theses images contain a virus signature ?

[aksplace]

some videos they had uploaded showing consecutive dice rolls on one of our games (this problem occurred over the space of 1 hour before it was identified, which created a problem with our software

I think you misunderstand.

The videos demonstrated that when your casino is low on funds your software deliberately cheats the player to recoup its losses.

It doesn't matter why the casino is low on funds - whether it's the result of a hack or a player getting lucky - in either case the software will cheat the player to get the money back.  You have admitted this before so why lie about it now and call it a "problem"?

I defy anyone to watch this:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFV_GIc_L2k
and honestly claim that they are watching anything other than obvious and deliberate cheating on the casino's part.

 

I originally thought that but then I thought surely one cannot be that stupid and actually "own" an online casino. Maybe I was wrong 

[bit777]

I originally thought that but then I thought surely one cannot be that stupid and actually "own" an online casino. Maybe I was wrong  

You own a Review and rating site, so its not that uncommon. Given your extremely incompetent review of our Blackjack game, concluding that it is suspicious/rigged after 20 hands. At least dooglus has actual proof before making public statements.

[aksplace]

I originally thought that but then I thought surely one cannot be that stupid and actually "own" an online casino. Maybe I was wrong  

You own a Review and rating site, so its not that uncommon. Given your extremely incompetent review of our Blackjack game, concluding that it is suspicious/rigged after 20 hands. At least dooglus has actual proof before making public statements.

your the one pimping this particular casino software want me to find the post? 

[bit777]

I originally thought that but then I thought surely one cannot be that stupid and actually "own" an online casino. Maybe I was wrong  

You own a Review and rating site, so its not that uncommon. Given your extremely incompetent review of our Blackjack game, concluding that it is suspicious/rigged after 20 hands. At least dooglus has actual proof before making public statements.

your the one pimping this particular casino software want me to find the post? 

Yeah, find it please.