No mining hardware is worth buying

[waltermot321]

According to genesis calculator - no minor is worth buying anymore - there are no returns on investments unless bitcoin price goes up to match the increase in difficulty. Like 300, 500, or 1000 price levels.

I'm going to stick to cloud mining for now.  I'm cancelling all my miner orders.

Even cloud mining isn't profitable

This, every company is coming out better and cheaper asic. 1GH/s now ganna be like 1MH/s..

[high110]

Yeah - but at least the cloud miners are going up in price?  I wonder if it is temporary??  I would have thought it should go down since bitcoin prices went.

It was .085 per GH/s yesterday and now it's around .089 per GH/s.

[integrity42]

100GH today will get you 7BTC

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=390928787.63809&dcosts=8000&diff_mincrease=30&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=100000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=190.75&dpowcon=30&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=0&action=calc

If you pay more then 0.07BTC per Gh, then you'll lose money.

Everyone should use that mining calculator from now on.  TBG is very stupid because it doesn't go by diff updates, only by month.

[huryde]

All the more reason to rent the hashing power, for around .104 BTC you can get 1 GHz hashing power at cex.io hopefully when you decide to sell it back it's close to the original price.

[ekiro]

Can we get an answer from a pro on this subject? Is it still worth buying mining hardware - is there a positive ROI worthwhile?  Or do the perks go to the guys that get the chips manufactured and then proceed manufacturing the boards and mining with them. Earn some BTC and then sell the units while they're hot.

[Anon136]

i think you are right because we are in a bubble. not a bitcoin bubble but an asic bubble. however those who manage to buy the most advanced hardware to come to market before that bubble bursts will have a really great opportunity i think. everyones future difficulty predictions will be way off because they will be expecting a new generation and that generation will not come. this will cause them to undervalue the last generation of hardware to be released before the bubble pops, and that is an opportunity to someone who can sense it.

[rpg]

I've done some math and research into all ASIC producers and this is the conclusion I've come up with. I truly think only those Chinese guys next to the foundries, who are the first to get their hands on the new technology, can really make money. All those who buy mining hardware even from companies like KNCminer end up losing more than they've invested.

Just enter the values here http://www.coinish.com/calc/# in Expert mode and you'll see what I'm talking about.

It's way more profitable to just buy BTC than mine it.

I'd like to hear the counter-arguments on this topic.

the only peole making money are the ASIC manufacturers. This said, if they were selling the machines for what one would expect, there would be a such a rush that no one could make ROI also. Kind of a catch 22. But history repeats itself. During the california gold rush the only ones making money were the shovels sellers

[rpg]

100GH today will get you 7BTC

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=390928787.63809&dcosts=8000&diff_mincrease=30&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=100000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=190.75&dpowcon=30&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=0&action=calc

If you pay more then 0.07BTC per Gh, then you'll lose money.

Everyone should use that mining calculator from now on.  TBG is very stupid because it doesn't go by diff updates, only by month.

only when people smart up and figure the potential minuscule rewards do not compensate the risk, they'll stop buying ASICs  and figure its only greed. At that point the difficulty bubble will burst and they'll be dumping their ASIC on Ebay. Its hard to predict when that will happen but my guess is sometime over this coming spring.

[stripykitteh]

Yeah - but at least the cloud miners are going up in price?  I wonder if it is temporary??  I would have thought it should go down since bitcoin prices went.

It was .085 per GH/s yesterday and now it's around .089 per GH/s.

Supply and demand. The prices will tend to go down though. I think it's substantially overpriced. Fortunately there are other ways of participating in the mining market.

[rampalija]

it is better to invest your money in BTC, when they are on low price

[frankenmint]

it is better to invest your money in BTC, when they are on low price

  oh well im missing the boat!  I wasnt on the buying end for a while now I am!

[darkmule]

Can we get an answer from a pro on this subject?

My guess is probably not.  Anyone who has figured out a way to eke out a profit at this isn't going to shoot a hole in the boat they're on by saying how.

Anyone who already has a farm that is producing more than the cost of electricity is going to keep doing it until that equation goes bad, and there are probably people in special situations, such as having free electricity, or at least electricity someone else is paying for, or they have a solar farm, or their farm is doing double duty heating their home or office, essentially the same as free electricity.

I have not recently seen any kind of analysis that shows that ANY of the units being sold new are even near break-even much less profitable.  In pretty casual looking at auction type sales, it does seem there are occasional sales of equipment at really low prices that could conceivably be profitable, but I haven't looked into those enough to know they aren't just scam sales.  "Too good to be true" prices quite often are scams.  But occasionally, someone is forced to liquidate stuff, so some may be legit.

It's a racket I wouldn't advise anyone get into unless they know way more about it than I do, and those who do know more are obviously not going to be giving advice unless they are true altruists.

[mobile]

All the more reason to rent the hashing power, for around .104 BTC you can get 1 GHz hashing power at cex.io hopefully when you decide to sell it back it's close to the original price.

Yeah cex.iois great. Insanely overpriced at the moment but hey the demand is there so you cant argue with that. Im still waiting for my reentry point.

[ekiro]

All the more reason to rent the hashing power, for around .104 BTC you can get 1 GHz hashing power at cex.io hopefully when you decide to sell it back it's close to the original price.

Yeah cex.iois great. Insanely overpriced at the moment but hey the demand is there so you cant argue with that. Im still waiting for my reentry point.

How can one make a positive ROI on CEX?

[itod]

How can one make a positive ROI on CEX?

One way: Trade Ghs. Buy, then sell, then buy, etc...

If you only buy once and mine with it you'll probably get only 60-70% invested back. Just my 0.00000002 BTC.

[rampalija]

Can we get an answer from a pro on this subject? Is it still worth buying mining hardware - is there a positive ROI worthwhile?  Or do the perks go to the guys that get the chips manufactured and then proceed manufacturing the boards and mining with them. Earn some BTC and then sell the units while they're hot.

ROI can be positive if you hold your BTC and wait for increase in price

[DeathAndTaxes]

How can one make a positive ROI on CEX?

By selling to someone else at a higher price.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool

If I sell you a turd in a box for $18 and you sell it to some sucker for $20 we both profit and only the sucker loses everything.   That is CEX "investing".

Paying $18+ per GH today hoping someone dumber than you will pa $20 is well stupid.

[itod]

Paying $18+ per GH today hoping someone dumber than you will pa $20 is well stupid.

I humbly disagree. Why is that stupid if the probability of that event is high? Current price on CEX.io (expressed in USD) is $22.64, currently I've put a buy order for all BTC I have there on $18.89. Many times already happens that I buy 5% cheaper and sell 5-10% more. Don't get why do you think my current buy order is stupid?

[rampalija]

Paying $18+ per GH today hoping someone dumber than you will pa $20 is well stupid.

I humbly disagree. Why is that stupid if the probability of that event is high? Current price on CEX.io (expressed in USD) is $22.64, currently I've put a buy order for all BTC I have there on $18.89. Many times already happens that I buy 5% cheaper and sell 5-10% more. Don't get why do you think my current buy order is stupid?

when u can earn some BTC nothing is stupid

[ekiro]

How can one make a positive ROI on CEX?

By selling to someone else at a higher price.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool

If I sell you a turd in a box for $18 and you sell it to some sucker for $20 we both profit and only the sucker loses everything.   That is CEX "investing".

Paying $18+ per GH today hoping someone dumber than you will pa $20 is well stupid.

Meh in that case I will just buy and sell the currency.  I That's where I see the money at.  The hardware guys can build-mine-sell to make their living. I'll do it by converting my USD to BTC. Hopefully get a big payday someday.