A Realization - Why All ERC-20 Tokens Are Shit

[carlisle1]

I disagree, they shouldn't be considered securities.

No one is being forced to invest in ICO's.

There is risk involved in almost everything you do in life, the last thing I want is the US government mandating for ICOs.

perfect on that mate,its our freewill joining or investing in ico,no one forces us to participate,meaning what ever happens is our discretion and prerogatives so never blaim the tokens or the platforms,this is the risk of profiteering.you can gain.but you can lose also

[OriginTrain]

By your own definition, not all ERC-20 tokens are shit,,, they need to be securities to not be shit right? To be honest, I have one ERC20 token that is precisely a security, or at least, when it started out it was supposed to work like one. Of course, if the company just disappeared, I would be left with zero, but they were supposed to distribute profits according to shares of tokens owned. Well, it almost happened, but then they had to change their tokens to utility instead of security, so I sort of got screwed over.

I do not like utility tokens, because they create the use, and none of it is "real".

Glad to hear you also get it now.

To all the other shit replies: If you invested in Google or any other fundamental tech startup at the time you would have made at least a x10. In Google's case a x30. Ever heard of angel investing? They also return x10 quite frequently, sometimes x100 or x1000. The only difference with ICOs and traditional investments is that we WILL get screwed over eventually with our useless ERC-20 tokens, myself included.

Also don't you dare use the pro-government strawman argument. If you want real decentralized tokens then these ICOs should be launched as proper DAOs. DAOs are fully decentralized and embrace the spirit of the blockchain, whilst conferring actual ownership of the organization with the tokens. Registered companies that are motivated by profit that issue us shitty utility tokens have nothing at all to do with decentralization or any anti-government movement. In fact they will comply with governments if they're forced to. DAOs don't have this issue. The majority of ICOs are not DAOs. Think of better arguments if you don't agree.

[minimumgalaxy]

Not all ERC-20 shitcoin but majority of token are. It is because it has no high standard requirements in creating token in Ethereum platform.

[slaman29]

To all the other shit replies: If you invested in Google or any other fundamental tech startup at the time you would have made at least a x10. In Google's case a x30. Ever heard of angel investing? They also return x10 quite frequently, sometimes x100 or x1000. The only difference with ICOs and traditional investments is that we WILL get screwed over eventually with our useless ERC-20 tokens, myself included.

Also don't you dare use the pro-government strawman argument. If you want real decentralized tokens then these ICOs should be launched as proper DAOs. DAOs are fully decentralized and embrace the spirit of the blockchain, whilst conferring actual ownership of the organization with the tokens. Registered companies that are motivated by profit that issue us shitty utility tokens have nothing at all to do with decentralization or any anti-government movement. In fact they will comply with governments if they're forced to. DAOs don't have this issue. The majority of ICOs are not DAOs. Think of better arguments if you don't agree.

Exactly. Venture capital experts usually get in right at the so-called ground floor... in terms of stocks/shares, this is even before the IPO stage. I suppose the equivalent for crypto and blockchain ICOs are all those private funding rounds or "private pre-sales". They invest a huge amount, basically like a seed fund, and by the time the IPO or ICO comes out, they own shares at a tiny fraction of the price that even the earliest investor can obtain - very easily this can mean they get x10 or more, just not publicized.

I got burned last year by these ERC20 token investments, I only made two serious investments, and truly believed in the ideas, but I'm really beginning to think now that I got duped. I get what you're saying about DAOs, but ETC holders will forever remind us that even that is a huge screw over potential.

[francojon]

With traditional shares, you own a part of the company. You have legally guaranteed protections in place that the board of directors of a company MUST have your best interest at heart at all times, or they go to jail. By us idiots (myself included) investing into ICOs whereby we forfeit all judicial and legislative protections that a company is MANDATED to have our best interests at heart, we essentially take on all the same risks as shareholders do, without any of the benefits. We essentially trust completely private enterprises that they'll always have our best interest at heart as token holders. Stop, pause, and realize how stupid we all are.

Take FUNFAIR for example. This is a huge risk investment with a lot of potential. As an early contributor, you get absolutely no equity, profit, or anything else in the platform, but rather simply the ability to purchase the token that will be used by casinos early. That's it. Investors like us fund companies like this from the ground up, and yet receive absolutely nothing comparable in return in the way of ownership and profit sharing.

Guys, we must all WAKE THE FUCK UP. Honestly. We must unite and STOP this practice whereby we invest in utility tokens. ALL ERC-20 tokens, and platform tokens, should be securities. Nothing else. We should all have ownership in a company we invest in, including sharing its profit.

None of these shit tokens offer any of the reward that we as investors deserve for the risk that we take. Absolutely none, unless you can cite me a specific ICO that gives you legal ownership of the company with the token, then none. The one exception are DAOs. Yes, these do confer you actual ownership, and I wish this is the direction that all ICOs would take, however they don't. Most ICOs are centralized and are not DAOs, and they will give you shit tokens rather than ownership shares that you deserve.

This is a realization we should all make. This practice needs to end.

You are blaming tokens for your own lack of understanding about business. A share on a small business may never ever reach a market or you may have to wait for years before it does. Just lear how to choose the RIGHT tokens.

[HashFace]

I have much of the same concerns, like with FunFair, there is an additional risk that when it comes to "fund" the casinos, the owners could tap and sell the billions of unsold tokens and not only cut us out of the profits, but flood the market and drive the price down further.  It is a huge risk, but if the done right, and honestly, it could have a huge return.  

But at the end of the day, if you want equity and dividends, there are all sorts of tech company on the NYSE and NASDAQ that offer just that.  If Crypto were exactly like the stock market, I wouldn't be here.  I'd be on eTrade right now.  

[crimsongoth]

The problem isn't that ERC-20 tokens are good or bad. The real problem is that investors are unconscious, greedy and gamblers. I think people who don't have any knowledge or know-how have reduced the quality of the market. If there were really conscious investors in the majority, I believe that we didn't encounter so many scam events.

[Beerwizzard]

With traditional shares, you own a part of the company. You have legally guaranteed protections in place that the board of directors of a company MUST have your best interest at heart at all times, or they go to jail.

Let me tell you a secret. Not all shares provide a right to vote.  Sometimes you won't even be able to purchase those coontroll shares. The board of directors determine the company's future. They may decide to pay you more dividends or to waste those money on something that no one needs. You are still not guaranteed to me the main guy in the company.
What about tokens. First of all it is not the fault of ERC-20, you can make your tokens on the other platform. Also ICO is a mix of croudfunding and actual investind. Most ICOs even issue their tokens as a currency for their project. In such cases no one even claims that it should give you any ownership rights for the product.
But it is still obvious that investors want to feel safer. Pretty often the people that rise huge money on ICOs don't even know how to manage his new company and lose much money only because of poor management.
This is not the fault of the token standart. The only thing that  I see for now is to issue  some kind of reputable organisation (that's just my thoughts, I have no idea how it could be reputable from the very begining) that will make something like a private certificate that could be achieved after the deep analysis (maybe that will make ICOs to make better whitepapers). I'm still not sure how it will work but there is no better way.

[kier010]

they are not forcing us to invest in their ICOs and it is up to you if you are willing to invest. many want to take this high risk just to earn profit. the problem now is they are blindly investing in scam that is why they lose money instead of profit. at the end of the day you want to earn money and  by joining ICOs you can earn x2, x3 or more but more risky.

[OriginTrain]

they are not forcing us to invest in their ICOs and it is up to you if you are willing to invest. many want to take this high risk just to earn profit. the problem now is they are blindly investing in scam that is why they lose money instead of profit. at the end of the day you want to earn money and  by joining ICOs you can earn x2, x3 or more but more risky.

Right. It's their choice of course. But by raising awareness and educating investors better, we can make better demands from companies and invest in better quality/legitimate ICOs which will make the entire alt-coin sphere much better for everyone. Once investors start demanding profit sharing with their tokens, and stop pumping scams, that is the time the mainstream public can finally begin to take tokens seriously and make serious investments.

[mu_enrico]

With traditional shares, you own a part of the company. You have legally guaranteed protections in place that the board of directors of a company MUST have your best interest at heart at all times, or they go to jail. By us idiots (myself included) investing into ICOs whereby we forfeit all judicial and legislative protections that a company is MANDATED to have our best interests at heart, we essentially take on all the same risks as shareholders do, without any of the benefits. We essentially trust completely private enterprises that they'll always have our best interest at heart as token holders. Stop, pause, and realize how stupid we all are.

Take FUNFAIR for example. This is a huge risk investment with a lot of potential. As an early contributor, you get absolutely no equity, profit, or anything else in the platform, but rather simply the ability to purchase the token that will be used by casinos early. That's it. Investors like us fund companies like this from the ground up, and yet receive absolutely nothing comparable in return in the way of ownership and profit sharing.

Guys, we must all WAKE THE FUCK UP. Honestly. We must unite and STOP this practice whereby we invest in utility tokens. ALL ERC-20 tokens, and platform tokens, should be securities. Nothing else. We should all have ownership in a company we invest in, including sharing its profit.

None of these shit tokens offer any of the reward that we as investors deserve for the risk that we take. Absolutely none, unless you can cite me a specific ICO that gives you legal ownership of the company with the token, then none. The one exception are DAOs. Yes, these do confer you actual ownership, and I wish this is the direction that all ICOs would take, however they don't. Most ICOs are centralized and are not DAOs, and they will give you shit tokens rather than ownership shares that you deserve.

This is a realization we should all make. This practice needs to end.

Agree with this
ERC-20 actually is a good concept that need to be backed by government
IMO before any legalization of ICO, we need to treat it as a VERY HIGH RISK GAMBLE

[Vektrum]

I do not think that the idea of ​​conducting an ICO is bad. This is a good way to quickly attract large amounts of money to the project and at the same time release tokens for the work of this project. If ICO projects and issued tokens are equated to securities, everything will become very complicated and we will practically lose the decentralized crypto currency in the form as it exists now. The risk in the ICO campaign is huge, but also a huge profit if the project proves successful. Nobody forces anyone to invest in ICO projects. Everyone himself disposes of his own means. If anyone is not sure about the ICO campaign, he may not invest or buy a token already on the market, so fraud will be minimized.

[okwang231]

I'm not in favor of what you said about the ERC-20 token because most of the campaign erc-20 tokens are used so how to make this shit coin while it is so used to it so be careful with the ones you are referring to do not discredit a if you do not have enough evidence.

[mikyadel]

first of all , not all ERC-20 tokens are shit . there are some really valuable projects just search well and you'll see . secondly , you can't compare stock market to cryptocurrency as your investment won't do 2-10x in there . high risk = high rewards

[IlfarIldarovich]

Yes, maybe they are shit. But you have to understand that there you can go with a very low threshold of occurrence, which cannot be done in the main projects that are already stable.               

[fenican]

ERC-20 tokens are not a cryptocurrency - nobody is proposing using them as a cash substitute or even a store of value. What you are receiving is a symbolic token, that took nothing to create, in exchange for funding a company that is giving you no equity stake. You'd literally have to be a moron, or an absolute true believer in their technology willing to DONATE, to do that.

[chiggx]

i agree that most people do not realise this but at the same time most of these companies would have gone the venture capital route, how would us layman investors get involved then? so we might not get a share of profits but it gives us an opportunity to invest in something that is somewhat correlated to the value of the company

[VSOP_VSOP]

It is necessary to understand that the certain negative attitude is formed so called  "experts " which quite probably write these statements, not having on hands at all crypto-currency as such:)

[dreamerXXI]

None is forcing you to invest in an ICO. They are mostly aimed to those who believe in the potential of the project, with the hopes of it becoming a success, so you can later take your profits.

[Script3d]

oh really all erc20 are shit are you sure about that there are alot of better erc20 tokens and you only mention one coin how can you give judgement to all erc20 exist on the market and having no profit why not just get off on the coin your investing switch to promising token like vechain.